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Thread: NEED HELP FOR PHOTOGRAPY

  1. #21

    Default Re: NEED HELP FOR PHOTOGRAPY

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post

    And Confucius did say that... in Mandarin way way before Jesus's or Matthew's time (551–479 BC)... Maybe Matthew quoted or translated Confucious? you never know...

    The actual quote in Chinese:

    子曰:“其恕乎!己所不欲,勿施于人。”

    The book name is called: 《论语卫灵公》 ("Analects" in English)

    From Confucius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    YES! exactly!

  2. #22
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEED HELP FOR PHOTOGRAPY

    Quote Originally Posted by eric8526 View Post
    ok. I had shoot from my cc quit sometime and i want gain more experience abit more. I will start from my friend first.
    Thank for your advise.
    CC as in community centres?

    from what I know, CC only have budget for event photography when a MP is gracing the event, but usually they have their regular photographers.
    CC will not outsourcing event coverage to anyone, tho it is very low budget shoot.
    however, anyone can just go and shoot such events, it is fine with the CC, cos nobody is paying the rest of photographers.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  3. #23
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: NEED HELP FOR PHOTOGRAPY

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post


    Now you know why there are so many people quit doing freelancing after they try out for a few months.
    So if any one of you still want to make some extra pocket money (which I have no issue with anyone want to make some extra pocket money, and most pros too), please, do yourself and many other people just like you a favour, use the Business Calculator, calculator your cost, and your intended profit.
    and explain to your customers why you need to charge your rate this way.
    Let me explain this from the perspective of most people who do it for pocket money. It is very simple.

    Option 1 : Don't do jobs. Net result: spend a lot of money on gears, with no income.
    Option 2: Do jobs. Net result, spend a lot of money on gears, some income. Better than nothing.

  4. #24
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: NEED HELP FOR PHOTOGRAPY

    Quote Originally Posted by motographer View Post
    Do you all realize it's cheaper to get a photographer in Singapore than Thailand?!!!
    Maybe is you spend a little less time shooting yourself in the foot, and a bit more time trying to be professional, there will still be a profession when you want to charge normal prices.
    Amazes me how one of the poster thinks 20,000$ a year is good lah? Do you live with your mommy? seriously? Did you spend any time or money training to be a photographer? do you have any valuable talent?
    Aiyo, you totally missed uncle catchlights point sia... Sad. Then end up arguing with him when you two probably believe in the same thing.
    Last edited by edutilos-; 14th May 2013 at 05:46 PM.

  5. #25
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEED HELP FOR PHOTOGRAPY

    Quote Originally Posted by motographer View Post
    First, "What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others." Confucius? No, it's not confucius. Confucius quoted/ translated Matthew 7:12 in the bible. (and the sentence ends with... 'this is the law of the prophets')

    Second, Hobbyists are hobbyists. And as such shouldn't work for money and take work away from people who make a profession out of it. Beside the often ilegal part of it (they mostly work in the black) it takes food away from our tables and it screws us professionals by lowering the rates and the standards.
    So, encouraging and helping this practice is simply wrong.

    3rd, no Hobbyist in Singapore makes 20k a year from his/her photography. Especially if the charge under 200$ for an event. That would mean over 100 days of work a year... That's not a hobbyist.

    If the point is valid, it's just as valid if it is the first or 1000th post. So what's your point with pointing that out?
    It very interesting to see someone like you jump into conclusion on my posting.

    what is my views on hobbyists doing moonlighting? you have no idea at all.


    anyway, I have on obligation to explain anything that I say.

    maybe you spend some time reading the postings before you shoot anything from you mouth, you can make more friends here.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  6. #26
    Member eric8526's Avatar
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    Default

    Wedding I never try before!!!

  7. #27
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEED HELP FOR PHOTOGRAPY

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    It very interesting to see someone like you jump into conclusion on my posting.

    what is my views on hobbyists doing moonlighting? you have no idea at all.


    anyway, I have on obligation to explain anything that I say.

    maybe you spend some time reading the postings before you shoot anything from you mouth, you can make more friends here.
    Don't think he is here to make friends. Look like a clone account just to come in and troll.

  8. #28

    Default Re: NEED HELP FOR PHOTOGRAPY

    Why not move this to Photo Biz section, quite relevant there.

  9. #29
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEED HELP FOR PHOTOGRAPY

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
    Why not move this to Photo Biz section, quite relevant there.
    Moved to Photo Biz.

  10. #30
    Member agws1970's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEED HELP FOR PHOTOGRAPY

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    It very interesting to see someone like you jump into conclusion on my posting.

    what is my views on hobbyists doing moonlighting? you have no idea at all.


    anyway, I have on obligation to explain anything that I say.

    maybe you spend some time reading the postings before you shoot anything from you mouth, you can make more friends here.
    Hi Catchlight,

    Don't think this person is here to be friendly. Old adage: Empty Vessels = Most Noise comes to mind. Read a little and just shoot coz you are anonymous seems to be the order of the day for these personas. This is the reason Singa quit the courtesy movement. Haha.

  11. #31
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEED HELP FOR PHOTOGRAPY

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Don't think he is here to make friends. Look like a clone account just to come in and troll.
    I don't think motographer is a clone account.

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Moved to Photo Biz.
    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by agws1970 View Post
    Hi Catchlight,

    Don't think this person is here to be friendly. Old adage: Empty Vessels = Most Noise comes to mind. Read a little and just shoot coz you are anonymous seems to be the order of the day for these personas. This is the reason Singa quit the courtesy movement. Haha.

    Maybe he just happen to have a bad day, perhaps a few newbie photographers undercut his rate and land couple of jobs.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  12. #32
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEED HELP FOR PHOTOGRAPY

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    Maybe he just happen to have a bad day, perhaps a few newbie photographers undercut his rate and land couple of jobs.
    I think most of us understand his frustrations, as some of the folks commenting here are professional photographers as well. But being frustrated is one thing. Taking it out on others just simply makes no sense.

  13. #33
    Senior Member oracle0711's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEED HELP FOR PHOTOGRAPY

    I agree. CC hardly pay and often look for volunteers. Some CCs have photography clubs or those form by hobbists. Often than not, these groups will be providing the events coverage for free or in the form of exchange for use of facilities at the CC to conduct photography meetings or classes.

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    CC as in community centres?

    from what I know, CC only have budget for event photography when a MP is gracing the event, but usually they have their regular photographers.
    CC will not outsourcing event coverage to anyone, tho it is very low budget shoot.
    however, anyone can just go and shoot such events, it is fine with the CC, cos nobody is paying the rest of photographers.

  14. #34
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEED HELP FOR PHOTOGRAPY

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    I think most of us understand his frustrations, as some of the folks commenting here are professional photographers as well. But being frustrated is one thing. Taking it out on others just simply makes no sense.
    I guess is just a misunderstanding,

    I'm still who I'm, so I don't take it as an issue.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  15. #35
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEED HELP FOR PHOTOGRAPY

    Quote Originally Posted by oracle0711 View Post
    I agree. CC hardly pay and often look for volunteers. Some CCs have photography clubs or those form by hobbists. Often than not, these groups will be providing the events coverage for free or in the form of exchange for use of facilities at the CC to conduct photography meetings or classes.
    these shoot actually are volunteer works, so is up to the photographers.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
    www.benjaminloo.com | iStock portfolio

  16. #36

    Default Re: NEED HELP FOR PHOTOGRAPY

    Quote Originally Posted by eric8526 View Post
    How to set price for photography for an event?
    Where can I find the link?

    Thank
    Another sticky subject... it is good to read through it all and understand...

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/photo...phy-guide.html

    Regards,

    Hart

  17. #37

    Default Re: NEED HELP FOR PHOTOGRAPY

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    I just use the Business Calculator to do a simulation for a newbie photographer wish to make some money by doing freelances of shooting events,
    base on he can spare his time to shoot 100 shoot and burn style assignments per year, of 4 hours events @$50.00 per hour, that work out to be average two assignments per week.
    that is really consider very busy in term of doing it as part time, and he is making $20,000 Gross income per annual.. sound real good isn't it??




    Here is his expenses per month

    Phone $60.00
    Camera Gears $400.00 (about $4800 a year, it will take 2-3 years to built a two bodies, two pro lenses system)
    Camera Gears maintenance $40.00 (camera/lenses need repair and servicing right? and some time he need to rent whatever he don't have)
    Computer (hardware and software) $150.00 (Ok, shooting and burn don't need photoshop, but can he do without computer?)
    Broadband internet $60.00 (hello, nowadays who don't have broadband?)
    Web hosting / Portal Services $35.00 (hey, how do people find him? even flickr pro is also not free)
    Vehicle Expenses $180.00 (let say each shoot he took a cab to and fro, $10 per trip)
    Office Supplies and Furniture $167.00 (let say each shoot he need to burn disc, send to disc to customer by courier services, $16.70 each is very cheap)
    Advertising and Promotion $100.00 (it only allows him to advertise about 0.5 to 1.5 sites to advertise his photograpahy services)
    Taxes and Licenses $10.00 (he follow my advice to register with ACRA for his freelancing business)

    there are still many expenses that this photographer didn't factor in since he consider himself as freelancer

    Office and studio
    Professional Development
    Subscriptions and Dues
    Equipment and Business Insurance
    Health Insurance
    Legal and Accounting Services
    Office Assistance
    Utilities
    Travel and Entertainment



    So here is HIS RESULTS

    Total Annual Expenses = $ 21,202.00
    Weekly Cost of Doing Business = $ 424.04
    Overhead Cost for Each Assignment Day = $ 212.02



    So this photographer is screwed if he is charging $50.00 per hour, for each assignment he loses $12.02.
    and he need to charge $53.00 just to break even, but he is still shooting for FREE, since he did not factoring his salary!!!


    Does he really want to make $50 per hour?
    than he will have to charge at least $100.00 per hour just to do shoot and burn style for FREELANCING.




    Now you know why there are so many people quit doing freelancing after they try out for a few months.
    So if any one of you still want to make some extra pocket money (which I have no issue with anyone want to make some extra pocket money, and most pros too), please, do yourself and many other people just like you a favour, use the Business Calculator, calculator your cost, and your intended profit.
    and explain to your customers why you need to charge your rate this way.
    This a great advice. Thanks for sharing the business calculator.

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