View Poll Results: Casino or not?

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  • Yes

    33 36.26%
  • No

    54 59.34%
  • Dunno

    4 4.40%
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Thread: Casino or not?

  1. #61
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Than govt have to try put a stop in the chicken business, mistress (kept in batam & here in singapore) because there are those who cant control themselve and had lead to family problems?

    Anyway, I still find it sad that people are so fast to shift the problem of gambling addicts to the fault on the govt parts. You mean all the family ties, education and those sad people that are in the news is still not able to prevent them from becoming a gambling ghost? If so, what you think you can do? Tie them to the pillar or keep their passport so they cant go oversea to gamble?
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  2. #62
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    How about stop importing the cig, than no more smoking problem.

    BTW, I am neither drug addict, gambler, smoker nor drinker, maybe thats why I cant understand why so difficult to resist.
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee
    How about stop importing the cig, than no more smoking problem.

    BTW, I am neither drug addict, gambler, smoker nor drinker, maybe thats why I cant understand why so difficult to resist.
    Dennis,
    I said in my first post that how people feel about this is very dependent on where they are coming from, and that I had no wish to have a direct debate with anybody, but here I am . I wish you hadn't engaged me because I knew we will just be talking past each other, we will never agree on this. So my last post on this and you feel free to close.

    There is no clear cut answer to this, it is a matter of trading off economic benefit against social costs.

    Why are there gambling addicts, drug addicts, smoking addicts? Obviously a combination of genetics and environmental influence. Someone may have the genes for gambling addiction but if he were brought up in strict orthodox Saudi Arabia for instance, he would not have much chance to manifest those genes and actually developing gambling addiction. In that case, the 'environment' had 'saved' him from developing that addiction because the opportunity had never existed.

    The government draws the lines on many issues, as you are aware; no porn, no drugs, high taxation on ciggies, because they believe that a small vulnerable minority will not be able to handle the influx, not because the majority will succumb. For instance, even in liberal Holland, only a small percentage of the population are drug addicts although drugs are 'relatively' freely available. That does not make it RIGHT!

    I only want what I feel is right for my family, friends and society at large. I fear the social costs will be heavy and outweigh whatever huge economic benefit that may accrue. I know that you and others feel differently, and that's fine, but it doesn't mean that I am wrong.

  4. #64
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    A casino serves the same purpose as any other attraction- the more visitors, the more money exchanges hands. Who benefits? the service industry of 'cos. A casino will catalyst trade transactions for the f&b, retail, hotel, travel, etc industries.

    I refer to the news regarding "cameras installed at geylang", nearby convinience stores reported they lost a percentage of business as a result. So do u say "serves them right for making money from such socially ill sources"? I don't think so, right. They are only making a living, as much as they are aware how ugly it looks.

    You can say the same for the casino, it will generate trade and that is how a percentage of our population will be living on. Don't look at it so negatively that the only big earners will be the government and foreign talent. Our fellow Singaporeans will benefit too. I believe that's how the government looks at it, and frankly, as long as they are prepared and able to tackle the ill effects caused by the casino, there is really not much to complain. It's good that they took such a time to decide, wouldn't it be more frightful if they had jumped straight into it?

    There will always be a good and bad side of something, you can't always choose. In a way, I find it a little funny, we see ourselves as an uptight, stifling country where her citizens have to be taught where to pee and follow rules. Now there is equal contention within the citizens when s'pore is trying to live a little. Well damn if you do, damn if you don't.

    If there is any other way singaporeans can generate more trade, hey power to the people! But right now, the casino's a good option.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxtwo
    A casino serves the same purpose as any other attraction- the more visitors, the more money exchanges hands. Who benefits? the service industry of 'cos. A casino will catalyst trade transactions for the f&b, retail, hotel, travel, etc industries.

    I refer to the news regarding "cameras installed at geylang", nearby convinience stores reported they lost a percentage of business as a result. So do u say "serves them right for making money from such socially ill sources"? I don't think so, right. They are only making a living, as much as they are aware how ugly it looks.

    You can say the same for the casino, it will generate trade and that is how a percentage of our population will be living on. Don't look at it so negatively that the only big earners will be the government and foreign talent. Our fellow Singaporeans will benefit too. I believe that's how the government looks at it, and frankly, as long as they are prepared and able to tackle the ill effects caused by the casino, there is really not much to complain. It's good that they took such a time to decide, wouldn't it be more frightful if they had jumped straight into it?

    There will always be a good and bad side of something, you can't always choose. In a way, I find it a little funny, we see ourselves as an uptight, stifling country where her citizens have to be taught where to pee and follow rules. Now there is equal contention within the citizens when s'pore is trying to live a little. Well damn if you do, damn if you don't.

    If there is any other way singaporeans can generate more trade, hey power to the people! But right now, the casino's a good option.
    Mmmm... I believe I read somewhere that the average casino goer is not a relatively rich, very rich or super rich guy... they are more like u and me.. a employed person with an average salary, trying to strike it rich at the casino.. thus the gambling addiction and often losing more money than earning..

    IMHO, I guess the rich usually have quite a bit of money and less likely to be addicted.. but I do not see them coming to singapore and spending money at the common coffeeshop and retail shop.. how are they suppose to help the average singaporean business??

    So most likely, the bulk of the goers will be locals?? And when the locals start to lose more money.. Yea.. now I see how the casino can help the local economy....

    > The loansharks now earn more as more pple borrow from them..
    > The banks earn more when they collect the mortgage...
    > The funeral parlors earn more when more pple commit suicide.. as seen from the last Tampines family...
    > The HDB earns more as they rent out spaces under the HDB blks...
    > The carpenters earn more from making c......
    > The doctors earn more as more pple get health issues like heart attack, high stress...
    > The MRT and buses earn more as pple travel to the casino..
    > The locals get more job openings like Toilet Cleanliness Specialist, Floor waxing executives, security bouncers, police officers needed to catch robbers...

    the list goes on.....

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashleyy
    Mmmm... I believe I read somewhere that the average casino goer is not a relatively rich, very rich or super rich guy... they are more like u and me.. a employed person with an average salary, trying to strike it rich at the casino.. thus the gambling addiction and often losing more money than earning..
    Yes, i do suppose so too. Otherwise it would mean the world would be full of relatively rich, very rich or super rich guys. And less of such people like u and me who are with avg salary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashleyy
    IMHO, I guess the rich usually have quite a bit of money and less likely to be addicted.. but I do not see them coming to singapore and spending money at the common coffeeshop and retail shop.. how are they suppose to help the average singaporean business??
    So u think the rich wouldn't consider making a little more money? Aren't they human too? Only the poor would desire more money and not the rich? Isn't it more likely that because the rich have money, that they so believe they can afford to gamble?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashleyy
    So most likely, the bulk of the goers will be locals?? And when the locals start to lose more money.. Yea.. now I see how the casino can help the local economy....

    the list goes on.....
    Yes, true again. The bulk will be locals, because it is in S'pore..... yeah? I suppose you don't fully see how the economy works (even without a casino)? I'm no expert (truely), but isn't it something like I am making my living out of you, just as you are making your living out of me? Go ahead and make it sound ugly, because that's just what it is.

    Does anyone think casinos make profit from the common looking-to-strike-rich man? Let's give it 75% of such customers.
    Who are the real customers casinos look for? Well, the rich gamblers of 'cos! Those who live the high life of risk-taking and specifically visit casinos to really PLAY for money. Maybe even partake in poker competitions, god knows. So 25% (i might be too generous) of such customers. What are the overheads on an avg day a casino might run to? Do they depend on the $$$ from 75% of the avg pple to break even? Or do you think they would consider investing to that 25% to maybe make a profit?

    It's like a bank. They don't make money from avg people opening an account and putting their life savings into them. In fact, they lose money for such a thing. It's the big accounts from big companies they make their real money from.

  7. #67
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    ... And like a bank, casinos do not turn away the avg man but the avg man has the ability to choose not to exercise the transaction.

  8. #68
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    casino or not, like some said, already decided ... all these feedbacks are wayang only.

    how many licences will the garmen issue out???
    my guess - 2

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeowww
    my guess - 2
    Do U mean 2 casinos. WoW! 2 more locations for photo shoot.

  10. #70
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkw
    Dennis,
    I said in my first post that how people feel about this is very dependent on where they are coming from, and that I had no wish to have a direct debate with anybody, but here I am . I wish you hadn't engaged me because I knew we will just be talking past each other, we will never agree on this. So my last post on this and you feel free to close.

    There is no clear cut answer to this, it is a matter of trading off economic benefit against social costs.

    Why are there gambling addicts, drug addicts, smoking addicts? Obviously a combination of genetics and environmental influence. Someone may have the genes for gambling addiction but if he were brought up in strict orthodox Saudi Arabia for instance, he would not have much chance to manifest those genes and actually developing gambling addiction. In that case, the 'environment' had 'saved' him from developing that addiction because the opportunity had never existed.

    The government draws the lines on many issues, as you are aware; no porn, no drugs, high taxation on ciggies, because they believe that a small vulnerable minority will not be able to handle the influx, not because the majority will succumb. For instance, even in liberal Holland, only a small percentage of the population are drug addicts although drugs are 'relatively' freely available. That does not make it RIGHT!

    I only want what I feel is right for my family, friends and society at large. I fear the social costs will be heavy and outweigh whatever huge economic benefit that may accrue. I know that you and others feel differently, and that's fine, but it doesn't mean that I am wrong.
    No lar, not directing @ you, just putting my view here, there is no right or wrong, only different views. Sorry if my statement had offened you.
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  11. #71
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    I have to tell you something about temptation, it is sometimes irresistable. But that does not mean we have to help them or prevent it from being built. It is like saying "since casino promoted addiction to gambling, we might as well stop all violent movies to prevent addiction to serial killing, all nude show to prevent addiction to raping from the scenes of the nude shows" etc. It is like saying also, if it is going to happen, we have to prevent it. How about babies then? Force everyone to be married and have babies so we can replace our older workers? By making laws that before the age of 25 must get married or face jailing in life? Get babies by all means before 28 or get death sentence?

    There are millions of things better to do. Like a chinese saying, if I cannot settle my own problem how am I suppose to help others settle? A casino is not my problem. Granted it may cause social problems, but that will be a small problem as a whole which is common.


    Let things flow smoothly. We are not God himself hence we are all imperfect by His standard. These are tests which are meant to open a new chapter or close the book of the life of one.

    No, I am not a Christian.

  12. #72

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    well some well enterprised singaporeans can start making their monies too, just turn into loansharks lor, i start selling pig heads and red paints and thick brushes and spary paints etc.

    maybe start my legal harassment company to get monies back and i can finally 'work' with the big banks! woohoo!

    why not be a PI and use your photography skills into good use, lots of rich uncles and aunties will have lovers or toy boys when they are rich and you can whip out your birdie lenses to take ppl in action.

    be creative, having a casino does not just helps the cleaning industry open up, load of other stuff to make money when you put your thinking caps to it.

    yes about the opening the casino, the garment already made the desicion, its so oblivous, just play-acting to get the ppl mindsets ready.

    why bother, if you want to be rich, start thinking what you can do about this new enterprise, maybe be a tour guide or bus driver, to ferry tourist to the casino.

    i still thinking about my 800k condo... toto never win one, so laychay, only monday and thursday.

  13. #73
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    Say no to CasiNO.

    People forget quickly the tragedy that took place a couple of months back where a gambler murdered his 2 children and wife before jumping off his HDB flat.

    Issue No. 1> Do Singaporeans want to see another case? How many more gambling related suicides/ crime will it take for us to see the light?

    1 more death is 1 too many.

    Issue No. 2> People ,including our Minister Dr Vivian, argued that the case was an isolated case, and that the issue with that case was ADDICTION, not gambling. But what started his addiction?

    Was it not gambling?

    ************

    If one were to stop and think for a moment, what kind of desperation must the man be facing for him to be able to murder his own kids?

    What kind of person was he? Was he those kind of hard core gamblers who live off their wives, neglected his family and gamble all day long? No, instead , he was a reformed gambler who managed to kick his habit 10 years ago! He managed to stay clean for 10 years. He could have become a poster boy, a success story for reformed gamblers. Someone who racked up ernomous debts, almost lost his wife who wanted to leave him back then, but with help of counselling kicked the habit, cleared his debts and became family loving man.

    Then he got hooked again while holidaying with his family at genting last december. I am sure he took his family there with good intentions, to enjoy the facilities with his kids at the INTERGRATED RESORT. But look what happened? Reports from the papers said that he had apparently sneaked out while his family was sleeping at night, succumbed to temptation and started gambling again then.

    That was the spark to all his troubles before it finally ended in tragedy.

    ***********

    One more death is one too many.

    Gambling is the root to gambling addiction.

    Say No to caSINo.
    Last edited by jlchong; 12th April 2005 at 01:53 AM.

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Goi
    I think the decision has been made. PM Lee will be explaining the Government's stand on next Monday ...
    The decision was made when PM Lee was dreaming about it. Lets see how lame the explaination would be.

  15. #75

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    I vote yes.
    Casino is one of the "cut losses" measure.

  16. #76
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    No.F1 street circuit and real opening up of socio-political space.YES.
    We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities. - Oscar Wilde

  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahbeng
    The decision was made when PM Lee was dreaming about it. Lets see how lame the explaination would be.
    lame until our pants drop lor...

  18. #78

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    One common trait of a gambler:
    When they lose everyone knows - they will announce it to the whole world:
    alamak I buy 1234 it open 1235
    or they will make it more sensational just like that recent case.

    When they strike it real big they will turn on the "code of silent" mode.

  19. #79
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    Lightbulb

    there will always be gambling, and since we've got kranji turf...why not a casino? if we dont our money will flow elsewere, if we cant beat the problem of illegal gambling why not capitalise on it?

    i dont feel its morally wrong to open a casino here in singapore... if you feel its morally wrong..then dont go, simple as that... we shouldnt rely on the govt to shield everything bad away from us.

    in fact having a casino in singapore will give us a new perspective of things maybe have more jobs and more subcultures be it psedo or not.

    a chinese proverb once stated that clean waters bear no fishes.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee
    Guys, we do have friends working here from oversea, PLS BE CONSIDERATE WHEN YOU POST SUCH A STRONG WORDS.
    I WILL NOT hesitate to repeat that if necessary. Just my 0.02c.





    Anyway - http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/sports/...86471,00.html?

    Well said. But too bad, the plan will go ahead regardless what. The gahmen already gave time for talk shows & interviews & road interviews of people's opinion, so now that's done, they will go ahead.

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