View Poll Results: Casino or not?

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  • Yes

    33 36.26%
  • No

    54 59.34%
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Thread: Casino or not?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaren
    wrong....foreign talent is EXPENSIVE crap.
    haha.. besides stealing our jobs, they are seducing our women as well! And driving poor Singaporeans to neighbouring countries to find a wife!! .... HaHaHa ..
    Last edited by eric69; 11th April 2005 at 04:59 PM.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by eric69
    Relax, dude. The casino issue has not been finalised. If it's going to be built, I'm sure the garmen will have safety net implemented. Also don't conclude early by saying that casino is bad, becos nothing is definite at the moment.
    then why go through the whole elaborate and expensive process of getting tenders from international casino operators? the gamman is already WAY past the stage of deciding whether to have a casino or not. it's at the stage of "who can set up a casino here at the lowest price?"
    you can buy better gear but you can't buy a better eye

  3. #43
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    Hehe.. this thread is going to be closed soon. There are two sensitive issues being discussed:-
    a) Aimlessly digging at Foreign talent &
    b) the big casino debate (earlier thread I remembered it was closed).
    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=106020&page=3&pp=20&highlight=cas ino
    Last edited by eric69; 11th April 2005 at 04:52 PM.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by eric69
    Hehe.. this thread is going to be closed soon. There are two sensitive issues being discussed:-
    a) Aimlessly digging at Foreign talent &
    b) the big casino debate (earlier thread I remembered it was closed).
    nah...this thread won't be closed. CS is the last bastion of free speech.
    you can buy better gear but you can't buy a better eye

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaren
    nah...this thread won't be closed. CS is the last bastion of free speech.
    Great to hear that.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    One's a hobby, the other is an addiction.
    It is the same, a matter of how you express it. Where is your "buy buy buy"? I see more of people addicted to buying new stuff than having a hobby too, especially from the Canon and Nikon camps (oops).

    Selfish reasons. So it means to say if you walk on the streets, you see a gambler being robbed and you aren't the one getting rob you just walk away?
    Yes, I am not hero and not having the skill to stop it (stop building the casino in this case). I will walk away but give a call to the police. If I am to help that guy and get killed who is supposed to pity me? Yes, maybe Singaporeans who read the news about me will know that and pity me, but thats only for probably a couple of months and I am a forgotten man. I will let this job to the police.

    Why not? Look in Nikon subforum, look at the D70 failure thread, it's enough to create a hoo-ha why not 29K of signatures, who are you to doubt their sincerity in opposing the move? Minority doesn't mean they are WRONG, it just means they are unique.
    I did not say they are wrong. I am sure some of them are sincere. I am asking how many of them are really sincere so do not put words in my mouth that minorities are wrong.

    Think again, their money will be at the casino not elsewhere. People like Singapore for itself, for it's nature & beauty, not because it's trying to become some other countries.


    For you think, there are a few kinds of gamblers:

    1. The professional, or whatever you call those that relies on gambling to make a living. They will still gamble, win money in higher chance than the others in general. They will spend much less in other stuff than gambling.

    2. The addicted, those that spend most of their time in the casino and cannot help stop gambling. They can be rich or the average earners or even the poorer. Some might fly from nearby countries just for this. Most of the time they lose money because of the addiction that they can win back. True, they will spend much much less on other stuff than gambling itself most of the time.

    3. The regular visitor that is not addicted or professional. They often come to this place and visited the casino along with some friends. Their winnings are not big and on average they will lose most of the time. This group of people are the big spenders, as they do not gamble that bit and their purpose to come is not to gamble solely in general.

    4. Your 10 million visitors in general, will probably drop by the casino even if many of them are not going in. Some of them rich enough will just spend a couple of hundred dollars to enjoy themselves to jackpot machines and some other stuff, ending the day with at least something in the complex.


    While I have to say it does not give a competitive advantage to building it, it does give something a visitor is dying for to visit Singapore. Lets face this, Singapore is quite boring less those red districts, places that provide special services, pubs, disco etc stuff. Surely you do not just eat and see nice people, clean place all the time? Yes there are Chinatown, Little Indian, but they are really small and probably 1 day you are over visiting them.

    When did people really started to care for foreigners? No never and will never. All for themselves else why would there be FTA (agreement is the key word), USA and SG should just give for free without obligations.


    This is the real world, only those who are able to betray and remain upright will suceed (politicians here I mean). Doing business is all about profits and money. Running a country is somehow the same thing with some welfare.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by theITguy
    If I am to help that guy and get killed who is supposed to pity me? Yes, maybe Singaporeans who read the news about me will know that and pity me, but thats only for probably a couple of months and I am a forgotten man. I will let this job to the police
    Yeah, Singaporeans will pity you and poured tons of sympathy $$$ to your immediate family, they'll come in dozens to attend your wake, cried and screamed that you are gone etc... (Haha.. Sorry meant as a joke.)

  8. #48
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    Sigh,
    told myself not to post, but reading these thread my fingers very itchy . As always, pros and cons, and a lot about how you feel about this issue depends on where you are starting from. I think the divide between opposing camps is too far to bridge, so I'll just state my concerns and not try to debate with anybody directly.


    1) Singapore is too small.

    Even in the US, only a few states license the mega-casinos. If I didn't like living in LV Nevada, I could always move to Oregon or Texas. Unlike the US or the UK, if I didn't like the casino being 20 minutes away by MRT, I can't move anywhere else, short of migrating (which is what some folk will do). The effect of the casino in Singapore will be PERVASIVE, make no mistake.


    2) It's not about those who won't, its about those who will.

    When MCYS minister Dr. Vivian Balakrishnan talked about 'maturity' and 'taking responsibility for our actions', I almost fell off my chair. Gambling addiction has got NOTHING to do with 'maturity', it is a medically pathological condition, just like drug addiction, and is as real a medical entity as the cataracts and glaucomas Dr Bala used to see in his previous life as an ophthamologist. Addicted gamblers don't know HOW to take responsibility, how else do you think they end up runing their lives and families?


    3) The argument about the availability of 4D, Toto, Genting is specious.

    The argument goes, "there is already 4D and Toto what, a casino is nothing new...". Well, if we follow that logic, since we allow smoking cigarettes, which ha been medically proven to be addictive and have health risks, why not license the importation of marijuana as well? The difference between Toto and casino gambling is like night and day. If Toto and 4D is so attractive, why not just build the integrated resort with some 4D and Toto outlets? I'm sure all the foreign visitors will flock to them....

    Next argument, "But the gamblers are already on the way to the cruise ships and Genting isn't it?" Yep, and you can watch porn freely too if you travel to Australia, the US and Europe, lets open the door and bring that in too yes? Porn industry makes plenty of moolah too.


    4) The admission fee is a trojan horse...

    ...to convince the naive masses to swallow the concept in the first place. Ask yourself, after having sunk many billions to build the IR, suddenly Genting/Universal Studios tells the government; "Hey, its not working out, we don't have the number of clientele that we need, you either drop the admission fee or we pull out." The government, 5 years from now, now having seen the resort as a rousing success with plenty plenty of tax dollars, will say what....? I've seen this before. Don't think they haven't already thought through this scenario, as have the casino operators, that the terms may change.

    I won't even go into morality and ethics, though I have views on those as well.....

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    Isn't it the truth? You know, I know. Foreign talent is CRAP.

    I have worked with Indians, Chinese and Malaysians before. I do not think that statement is right in any way. Yes, some of them just give that unconcerning, cannot be bothered way of working. Some of them are much more hardworking than local workers in general because they have a family to support. Likewise, if a person (Singaporean) is not dying for a job or needing to support a family, they most likely will give this kind of behaviour too.


    I seems to passby the SMU construction site near City Hall, and I see lots of Malaysia registered motor. Talking about Foreign Talents (do you know how to construct a building or willing to do so?), I really appreciate them building the future (SMU) for our children.

    Talk about Foreign Talents.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by eric69
    Yeah, Singaporeans will pity you and poured tons of sympathy $$$ to your immediate family, they'll come in dozens to attend your wake, cried and screamed that you are gone etc... (Haha.. Sorry meant as a joke.)

    Joke as a means of putting me down?

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by theITguy
    It is the same, a matter of how you express it. Where is your "buy buy buy"? I see more of people addicted to buying new stuff than having a hobby too, especially from the Canon and Nikon camps (oops).
    How much is spent as compared to gambling? Spending money to get things is fine isn't it? They got something in return, what does gambling offer? Satisfaction to become a hobby?

    Btw, I'm not the only one that goes BUY BUY BUY... do a search, it existed long before I joined the forum.



    Quote Originally Posted by theITguy
    Yes, I am not hero and not having the skill to stop it (stop building the casino in this case). I will walk away but give a call to the police. If I am to help that guy and get killed who is supposed to pity me? Yes, maybe Singaporeans who read the news about me will know that and pity me, but thats only for probably a couple of months and I am a forgotten man. I will let this job to the police.
    I'm glad you can think this way! Yes, walk away and call the police, who can Singaporeans turn to in this case?

    Imagine the gambler is killed, similarly we can only empathise and forget after a while, leave the job to others... I never asked you to be hero... just to be chivalrous in calling the police or shout "police" would help, no?

    So, afterall, you're thinking of yourself only in this case... You want to be remembered... ah... I see.



    Quote Originally Posted by theITguy
    1. The professional, or whatever you call those that relies on gambling to make a living. They will still gamble, win money in higher chance than the others in general. They will spend much less in other stuff than gambling.
    Great! These will be the 'super power' heroes of the future for kids when they get reported on newspaper. Great!


    Quote Originally Posted by theITguy
    2. The addicted, those that spend most of their time in the casino and cannot help stop gambling. They can be rich or the average earners or even the poorer. Some might fly from nearby countries just for this. Most of the time they lose money because of the addiction that they can win back. True, they will spend much much less on other stuff than gambling itself most of the time.
    Exactly. Now you're getting my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by theITguy
    3. The regular visitor that is not addicted or professional. They often come to this place and visited the casino along with some friends. Their winnings are not big and on average they will lose most of the time. This group of people are the big spenders, as they do not gamble that bit and their purpose to come is not to gamble solely in general.
    Addiction comes slowly and swift, before you know it. WHAMMO!

    Quote Originally Posted by theITguy
    4. Your 10 million visitors in general, will probably drop by the casino even if many of them are not going in. Some of them rich enough will just spend a couple of hundred dollars to enjoy themselves to jackpot machines and some other stuff, ending the day with at least something in the complex.
    Who knows, you're also only guessing as much as I am. hundreds is a lot... isn't it? In singapore context. Maybe not as much as a trinity...


    Quote Originally Posted by theITguy
    While I have to say it does not give a competitive advantage to building it, it does give something a visitor is dying for to visit Singapore. Lets face this, Singapore is quite boring less those red districts, places that provide special services, pubs, disco etc stuff. Surely you do not just eat and see nice people, clean place all the time? Yes there are Chinatown, Little Indian, but they are really small and probably 1 day you are over visiting them.
    What's SG well known for? Casino? I don't think just this reason - 'for a visitor dying to visit SG' that one should be erected.

    Singapore is boring but is unique in it's own boring methods. True. So you mean we should condone drugs, mafia also to make it more interesting? Singapore is small by nature, even if tourists come, it would be for gambling, Las Vegas would prove to be a better choice than Singapore anytime. What makes you so sure they will come to Singapore?

    Chinatown, Little India is small, but they are what that makes up singapore, I'm proud of that. The multi-race society and the harmony that we're all living in.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by theITguy
    I have worked with Indians, Chinese and Malaysians before. I do not think that statement is right in any way. Yes, some of them just give that unconcerning, cannot be bothered way of working. Some of them are much more hardworking than local workers in general because they have a family to support. Likewise, if a person (Singaporean) is not dying for a job or needing to support a family, they most likely will give this kind of behaviour too.


    I seems to passby the SMU construction site near City Hall, and I see lots of Malaysia registered motor. Talking about Foreign Talents (do you know how to construct a building or willing to do so?), I really appreciate them building the future (SMU) for our children.

    Talk about Foreign Talents.
    I shared your sentiments.

    In fact, I am not so concerned about foreign workers / talent / crap, taking over my work. My number 1 concern is Age Discrimination by employers. That should be our main concern instead of blaming those FTs... But I must also agreed that some FT I know are crap, out to dig a fast one at Singapore!

    Btw, is Singapore PRs e.g malaysian, considered FT?
    Last edited by eric69; 11th April 2005 at 05:13 PM.

  13. #53

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    I think instead of building a casino and making people think of Singapore as a gambling den, the Tourism Board should first examine our cultural attractions and food first to attract foreigners.

    They have really run out of ideas this time. So much for paying them such high salaries.

  14. #54
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    I think the decision has been made. PM Lee will be explaining the Government's stand on next Monday ...

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiki
    I think this is a rather flimsy logic though use in many cases to justify the building of the casino. The fact is that gambling can be a form of addicition and the ill effects are something that can be quite intangible and hard to manage once it goes out of hand. If the above reason are how we justify the building of casino, i think we can use the same reason to justify having a bigger red light district, or how about legalise designer drugs? Ultimately i think the reason they will go ahead with the casino is all about $$$, if they are more capable with other means of making $$$, casion won't be considered at all. Just my thoughts.
    So whats wrong with hong kong, since they are so close to marcu (wrong spelling?), for that matter, marcu itself.
    Or what is wrong with malaysia?

    Have the people from these 3 places turn into a gambling ghost?

    Drugs are also addictive (though against the law), so are all those legal gambling we have right now, why are most singaporean not turn into drug addicts & not gambling ghost? Simple, we can think logically, knowing whats right & whats not.

    Dont you think it is sad that one cant control ones thought & action just because there is a dark force seducing them? Worst, blame it on others for their own weakness? Rather convinent, dont you think?
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovells19
    thosands on average



    yes more jobs and you'll see the post taken up by malaysians, cos not many singaporean want to work in these jobs



    hardcore gamblers will land at changi, take a cab straight to the casino, gamble till their time is up or their cash is finish, take a cab back straight to the airport and fly off



    agree, but greed sometimes takes the better of a person
    Well, the job oppotunties are there, its up to individual decision to take it up or not. If so decided not to, than dont blame govt for not trying hard to creat jobs & also the forigeners (wrong spelling).
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee

    Drugs are also addictive (though against the law), so are all those legal gambling we have right now, why are most singaporean not turn into drug addicts & not gambling ghost? Simple, we can think logically, knowing whats right & whats not.?
    If we can all think logically, why are there drug addicts even though drugs are illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee
    Dont you think it is sad that one cant control ones thought & action just because there is a dark force seducing them? Worst, blame it on others for their own weakness? Rather convinent, dont you think?
    Ultimately, every individual is responsible for their own actions. However, the greater population at large also has a responsibility to those amongst us who are more vulnerable. Otherwise, why call ourselves a society? Why not every man for himself? Just because you don't understand that there are people who are more prone to addictions does not mean they don't exist.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    Isn't it the truth? You know, I know. Foreign talent is CRAP.

    Quote Originally Posted by zaren
    wrong....foreign talent is EXPENSIVE crap.

    Guys, we do have friends working here from oversea, PLS BE CONSIDERATE WHEN YOU POST SUCH A STRONG WORDS.
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkw
    If we can all think logically, why are there drug addicts even though drugs are illegal?



    Ultimately, every individual is responsible for their own actions. However, the greater population at large also has a responsibility to those amongst us who are more vulnerable. Otherwise, why call ourselves a society? Why not every man for himself? Just because you don't understand that there are people who are more prone to addictions does not mean they don't exist.
    Correct me if I am wrong about your statment.

    You will lend money to your gambling ghost friends times and over again?

    You will lend money to your friends times and over again when he / she lose money in shares ever so frenquntly?
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee
    Correct me if I am wrong about your statment.

    You will lend money to your gambling ghost friends times and over again?

    You will lend money to your friends times and over again when he / she lose money in shares ever so frenquntly?
    Responsibility is about PREVENTING them from falling into such vice in the first place, and about counselling and helping them to get out of it if they have already fallen in, not about feeding the habit. That is the context in which Iam writing.

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