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Thread: D4 User Thread

  1. #121

    Default Re: D4 User Thread

    It is hard to tell what constitute to business margins and what incentives are involved to promote one brand/product over another.

    For all we know, debit terms for "The other side" had been revised and there is a need to reduce inventory or picking up the tab will become inevitable.

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    Does it make any diff to him whether he is selling one brand or another? Probably not.

  2. #122
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: D4 User Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by surrephoto View Post
    Hi friends... regarding the guy who has suffered for almost a year with a D4 with left side AF (or asymmetrical) focusing issue, that would be me.

    I have previously been afriad to post here due to 3 reasons, 1. I was still hoping to resell it & get a new set, 2. I have been non-civil in the past in Nikon sub-forums regarding some things, don't wanna harm myself or stir stuff anymore 3. If I allegedly say that the Nikon D4 is defective, It might develop into an international lawsuit and I do not want to harm anyone in CS.

    Dear moderators, am I allowed to share my vv long and dramatic story here?
    If I am I will start to speak. To be honest, heart & head damn pain & stress loaded after 11 mths of not being able to solve the issue, and also guilt that if I sell this camera, I would hurt a 2nd person. It's vv difficult and hope bro/sis here can understand. Nikon still believes everything is within specs...
    You cannot say that the D4 is defective, because what you went through, though painful, is only related to your specific camera you own, not all the D4s in the world. My set works perfectly, and same for the sets owned by several friends of mine.... It is best you choose your words wisely, as it seems you have been careless with your words and statements in the past.

    As for sharing, views and statements here made by users are their personal opinions alone. This does not reflect ClubSnap's stand, opinion or views on the matter. All users are personally responsible for their posts and viewpoints legally and socially. So if you get sued, it has nothing to do with ClubSnap. If you get flamed, it has nothing to do with ClubSnap.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 6th July 2013 at 04:38 PM.

  3. #123

    Default Re: D4 User Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    You cannot say that the D4 is defective, because what you went through, though painful, is only related to your specific camera you own, not all the D4s in the world. My set works perfectly, and same for the sets owned by several friends of mine.... It is best you choose your words wisely, as it seems you have been careless with your words and statements in the past.

    As for sharing, views and statements here made by users are their personal opinions alone. This does not reflect ClubSnap's stand, opinion or views on the matter. All users are personally responsible for their posts and viewpoints legally and socially. So if you get sued, it has nothing to do with ClubSnap. If you get flamed, it has nothing to do with ClubSnap.
    Thks daredevil. I think although there are some perfectly fine D4 (plural) out there, it doesn't mean that others are fine. It can be the case that some users do not use a potentially defective D4 in a manner that will reveal the defect. Just like the D800, the issue is similar or even identical. The left side of the focus array is out-of-whack. Personally I prefer to call it an asymmetrical AF problem. I have been blunt in the past, but I believe my manners are still bearable. Feel free to flame me but to those of you who do not encounter such issues or have never encountered an issue that you feel is a defect, please be civil & empathize users who are affected by these problems. I am not alone. If you owned a D800 with this issue before the "fix" you would know how I feel, the experience is identical. Saying "never had any issues", or "my set is perfectly fine" without further discussion really does not help anyone. I think it is agreeable to acknowledge that Nikon QC has dipped a notch given the known issues of D800 and D600 (Oil stains/dust).

    I know another friend who is also affected by the issue and has not gotten Nikon to admit the issue. To Nikon this is a matter of customer preference, and not a "defect" as I would very much like it to be acknowledged as.

    Heres Nikon's Corporate opinion; Nikon Tokyo told me that the D800 left AF point issue is a matter of user preference, so is the case of the green-ish screen, they are literally saying they enhance and tweak these users and they do not consider these as defects.

    (Opinion here) To me this is disastrous corporate behavior... but debatable whether admitting flaws on a regular basis like what Canon is doing nowadays is better behavior or not.

    I have been to Tokyo 3 times and Malaysia once (my set was purchased in Malaysia). For a more in-depth view on my case you may visit my thread on dpreview (3 parts, 1st part long read); Continuation of my Nikon D4 assymetrical AF saga Part III: Nikon FX SLR (D1-D4, D600-D800) Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

    My experience spans a period of a year and is too complicated to be summarized here without causing confusion. For those who wish to ask me more sensitive questions, you may PM or e-mail me.
    Last edited by surrephoto; 6th July 2013 at 09:40 PM.

  4. #124
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    Default Re: D4 User Thread

    Haiiii, I really can empathize with you.

    No words to describe what you are going through..

  5. #125
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    Default Re: D4 User Thread

    Have read much about the high ISO capabilities of the D4. Finally had the chance to find out first hand what the fuss is all about. So I thought what better place than to shoot a concert at the Esplanade Outdoor Theatre, where I always found the lighting challenging and not being allowed to use flash.

    Needless to say, I am blown away with the picture quality it produces at ISO levels (>10,000) where I never dared or wanted to venture to. I am sure all D4 owners have been enjoying this outstanding feature for as long as they have the cam

    Here are some modest examples. Captured in raw, noise reduced in Capture NX2 and slight color cast correction using Color Efex.

    ISO 11,400


    ISO 10,000


    ISO 12,800


    ISO 7,200

  6. #126

    Default Re: D4 User Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zoom3 View Post
    Have read much about the high ISO capabilities of the D4. Finally had the chance to find out first hand what the fuss is all about. So I thought what better place than to shoot a concert at the Esplanade Outdoor Theatre, where I always found the lighting challenging and not being allowed to use flash.

    Needless to say, I am blown away with the picture quality it produces at ISO levels (>10,000) where I never dared or wanted to venture to. I am sure all D4 owners have been enjoying this outstanding feature for as long as they have the cam

    Here are some modest examples. Captured in raw, noise reduced in Capture NX2 and slight color cast correction using Color Efex.
    I didn't even bother to reduce noise at 12,800. It's godlike in it's own goodness.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenslust View Post

    I didn't even bother to reduce noise at 12,800. It's godlike in it's own goodness.
    Couldn't agree more:-)

  8. #128
    Senior Member lunas's Avatar
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    Surrephoto...my heart goes to you for having to travel around Asia to get yr cam fixed...

    My D800 has left focus issue...thankfully not all the lenses . I went to NSC 3 times to get it fixed...but still unhappy with the fix..

    Now I come to live with the flaw...n focus less on the flaw... & minimise the use of left focus.
    Last edited by lunas; 8th July 2013 at 04:59 PM.
    Nikon D300 | D800 - my flickr!

  9. #129

    Default Re: D4 User Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lunas View Post
    Surrephoto...my heart goes to you for having to travel around Asia to get yr cam fixed...

    My D800 has left focus issue...thankfully not all the lenses . I went to NSC 3 times to get it fixed...but still unhappy with the fix..

    Now I come to live with the flaw...n focus less on the flaw... & minimise the use of left focus.
    We could say it is possible to live with the flaw. But your composition when shooting moving moments such as handshakes will be severely affected at times.

  10. #130
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    Default Re: D4 User Thread

    ISO 11,400 with 24-70
    Last edited by daredevil123; 8th July 2013 at 05:48 PM.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by surrephoto View Post
    Thks daredevil. I think although there are some perfectly fine D4 (plural) out there, it doesn't mean that others are fine. It can be the case that some users do not use a potentially defective D4 in a manner that will reveal the defect. Just like the D800, the issue is similar or even identical. The left side of the focus array is out-of-whack. Personally I prefer to call it an asymmetrical AF problem. I have been blunt in the past, but I believe my manners are still bearable. Feel free to flame me but to those of you who do not encounter such issues or have never encountered an issue that you feel is a defect, please be civil & empathize users who are affected by these problems. I am not alone. If you owned a D800 with this issue before the "fix" you would know how I feel, the experience is identical. Saying "never had any issues", or "my set is perfectly fine" without further discussion really does not help anyone. I think it is agreeable to acknowledge that Nikon QC has dipped a notch given the known issues of D800 and D600 (Oil stains/dust).

    I know another friend who is also affected by the issue and has not gotten Nikon to admit the issue. To Nikon this is a matter of customer preference, and not a "defect" as I would very much like it to be acknowledged as.

    Heres Nikon's Corporate opinion; Nikon Tokyo told me that the D800 left AF point issue is a matter of user preference, so is the case of the green-ish screen, they are literally saying they enhance and tweak these users and they do not consider these as defects.

    (Opinion here) To me this is disastrous corporate behavior... but debatable whether admitting flaws on a regular basis like what Canon is doing nowadays is better behavior or not.

    I have been to Tokyo 3 times and Malaysia once (my set was purchased in Malaysia). For a more in-depth view on my case you may visit my thread on dpreview (3 parts, 1st part long read); Continuation of my Nikon D4 assymetrical AF saga Part III: Nikon FX SLR (D1-D4, D600-D800) Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

    My experience spans a period of a year and is too complicated to be summarized here without causing confusion. For those who wish to ask me more sensitive questions, you may PM or e-mail me.
    While I truly empathize with your situation, I do not believe the D4 or D800 is a flawed product. I have come across so many other D800 and D4 users with perfectly fine camera bodies. And no, it is not like you said. These users I know drive their machines as hard or harder than you (from what I seen from your work). My cam is fine too, and I certainly use every AF point available to me with different wide prime and zoom lenses and shoot in fast moving and dynamic environments. So does my friends and so far the results are no less than astounding.

    Like I said, there are some units out there with problems, but I believe that they are in the minority and definitely a little more in the early batches. Mine is bought around 10 months after release.

    On a side note, you should have gone to Nikon Malaysia first since you bought a Malaysian set. If you are sending the camera to NSC Singapore or Japan, you will be expected to pay for service since your camera is only warrantied in Malaysia. You cannot really blame anyone if you refuse to pay for the fix when you were first offered a fix in Ginza for USD300. I would have jumped at it if I am in your shoes.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 8th July 2013 at 06:54 PM.

  12. #132

    Default Re: D4 User Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    While I truly empathize with your situation, I do not believe the D4 or D800 is a flawed product. I have come across so many other D800 and D4 users with perfectly fine camera bodies. And no, it is not like you said. These users I know drive their machines as hard or harder than you (from what I seen from your work). My cam is fine too, and I certainly use every AF point available to me with different wide prime and zoom lenses and shoot in fast moving and dynamic environments. So does my friends and so far the results are no less than astounding.

    Like I said, there are some units out there with problems, but I believe that they are in the minority and definitely a little more in the early batches. Mine is bought around 10 months after release.

    On a side note, you should have gone to Nikon Malaysia first since you bought a Malaysian set. If you are sending the camera to NSC Singapore or Japan, you will be expected to pay for service since your camera is only warrantied in Malaysia. You cannot really blame anyone if you refuse to pay for the fix when you were first offered a fix in Ginza for USD300. I would have jumped at it if I am in your shoes.
    I truly empathize with your situation, similar to DD123, I do not believe the D4 or D800 is a bad product nor do I believe any organization(s) is out to game their customers. I have put the D800 to very extreme photographing conditions and even used it on birds in flight in snowing conditions and I have caught monumental photos. Left AF problems or not, the D800 works in wet and humid weathers of Singapore or the frigid cold of the Artic North with wind and snow.

    The performance of the D4 is without complains.

    I say this not as a motherhood statement but from the results of the thousands of photos that I produced using the D800 and D4.

    If there is a problem with the machinery one use, fix it, then continue to use it. We'll wont drive a car that we deeply believe have a faulty brake system even though the OEM claims it as within spec. We fix it at our own cost or we can believe the OEM and live with it. As long as it can be repaired, just have it repaired. Pay the money and move on because when we compare the repair cost, it is negligible compared to the overall cost than break our own hearts to try make the repair FOC.

    Life is short and unpredictable, it is simply not worth going through such bothersome issues when a small amount of money can fix it.

    If it is within the operating range as specified by the OEM, warranty claim cannot be applied but should the owner prefer to make fine tunes or change parts to his/her satisfaction, there is no stopping the owner although he/she would have to pay for it.
    Last edited by Luminare; 8th July 2013 at 07:40 PM.

  13. #133

    Default Re: D4 User Thread

    Hi surrephoto,

    I'm sorry you had to experience such unhappiness with the flagship, but if the flagship has been tested and everything else seems to be in specs, shouldn't you look at it from a different angle of the lenses combination?

    Maybe it's something to do with the combination than blame it on the D4? I can understand the frustration spending USD6400 on a camera and not get it perfect.

    Hope you get it solved soon.

  14. #134

    Default Re: D4 User Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lenslust View Post
    Hi surrephoto,

    I'm sorry you had to experience such unhappiness with the flagship, but if the flagship has been tested and everything else seems to be in specs, shouldn't you look at it from a different angle of the lenses combination?

    Maybe it's something to do with the combination than blame it on the D4? I can understand the frustration spending USD6400 on a camera and not get it perfect.

    Hope you get it solved soon.
    I have studied many, many combinations including the 14-24, 24-70, 70-200, 24 1.4 (multiple copies, non of which i own), 35 1.4 (2 copies, 1 mine), 28 1.8 (NSC copy), 50 1.4D, 50 1.4G (2 copies, non are mine), 50 1.8D (NSC copy), 85 1.4G.

    The lenses which are affected the most severely in descending order... 24 1.4, 28 1.8, 14-24, 35 1.4, the 50s, & the 85 1.4G (still very noticeable at 5 metres and beyond). 24-70 considered usable but f2.8 - f4 still dangerous on left points.

    My "test" have suggested that the 50 1.4D is very good to test for the problem due to the prominent CA. I think they use this lens to calibrated the D800 for the left-AF issue.
    Last edited by surrephoto; 8th July 2013 at 10:54 PM.

  15. #135

    Default Re: D4 User Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    While I truly empathize with your situation, I do not believe the D4 or D800 is a flawed product. I have come across so many other D800 and D4 users with perfectly fine camera bodies. And no, it is not like you said. These users I know drive their machines as hard or harder than you (from what I seen from your work). My cam is fine too, and I certainly use every AF point available to me with different wide prime and zoom lenses and shoot in fast moving and dynamic environments. So does my friends and so far the results are no less than astounding.

    Like I said, there are some units out there with problems, but I believe that they are in the minority and definitely a little more in the early batches. Mine is bought around 10 months after release.

    On a side note, you should have gone to Nikon Malaysia first since you bought a Malaysian set. If you are sending the camera to NSC Singapore or Japan, you will be expected to pay for service since your camera is only warrantied in Malaysia. You cannot really blame anyone if you refuse to pay for the fix when you were first offered a fix in Ginza for USD300. I would have jumped at it if I am in your shoes.
    The reason why I did not pay 300 USD for the "fix" was because Nikon Japan technician agreed to contact Singapore to clarify the procedure. Infact Japan promised that the procedure & work done will be the same & identical in quality.

  16. #136

    Default Re: D4 User Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Luminare View Post
    I truly empathize with your situation, similar to DD123, I do not believe the D4 or D800 is a bad product nor do I believe any organization(s) is out to game their customers. I have put the D800 to very extreme photographing conditions and even used it on birds in flight in snowing conditions and I have caught monumental photos. Left AF problems or not, the D800 works in wet and humid weathers of Singapore or the frigid cold of the Artic North with wind and snow.

    The performance of the D4 is without complains.

    I say this not as a motherhood statement but from the results of the thousands of photos that I produced using the D800 and D4.

    If there is a problem with the machinery one use, fix it, then continue to use it. We'll wont drive a car that we deeply believe have a faulty brake system even though the OEM claims it as within spec. We fix it at our own cost or we can believe the OEM and live with it. As long as it can be repaired, just have it repaired. Pay the money and move on because when we compare the repair cost, it is negligible compared to the overall cost than break our own hearts to try make the repair FOC.

    Life is short and unpredictable, it is simply not worth going through such bothersome issues when a small amount of money can fix it.

    If it is within the operating range as specified by the OEM, warranty claim cannot be applied but should the owner prefer to make fine tunes or change parts to his/her satisfaction, there is no stopping the owner although he/she would have to pay for it.
    The issue is that Singapore has insisted on several occasions that there is supposedly no repair software to rectify the issue for the D4. However that stance has changed in recent months & Singapore & Japan both deny the possibility of a defect & believe that the camera is within factory standards. Now after my continuous appeals and e-mails to Mr Kimura Makoto, Japan wishes to inspect the set again. I have low hopes that inspecting the set will result in the problem being resolved. I was initially reluctant to share my experience online but after more than half a year of struggling with the issue, I wrote a post on dpreview. As can be seen here, I have finally given in and wrote on clubsnap too. Selling this D4 to another user using my userid has thus become extremely difficult & certainly immoral & imho things have developed to a full-fledged conflict between me & nikon.

    I would also like to clarify that other than this issue, I believe the D4 is a fantastic product. XQD is not my favourite either, but it is fast & has great potential in the pro-video market.

    If any of you are in doubt of my truthfulness, or the validity of the problem, I am willing to organise a session near funan for you guys to test my set. Coffee is on me. I just want to solve the problem. I am very, very, very, very tired.
    Last edited by surrephoto; 8th July 2013 at 11:44 PM.

  17. #137
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: D4 User Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by surrephoto View Post
    The reason why I did not pay 300 USD for the "fix" was because Nikon Japan technician agreed to contact Singapore to clarify the procedure. Infact Japan promised that the procedure & work done will be the same & identical in quality.
    I still would have done it there and then if I am you. What is $300 compared to your time and headaches? You already flew there. You are running a photography business, and should just factor that into your costs.

    A side note... No offence but from what I have read and understood so far from your D4, D700, NSC and NPS sagas, IMHPO it seems you still have a long way to go in learning how to deal with people and situations properly.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 9th July 2013 at 12:17 AM.

  18. #138
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    Default Re: D4 User Thread

    I usually don't travel with a tripod. I just walk and shoot hand held. ISO shots up to 12800 or more are still useable straight out from the camera or with minor tweaking.

    It is a camera that is really good for shooting in low light situations and I still have yet to hit it limits. The ISO gives me the freedom where I can just pre-visualize, shoot and scoot. Some places aren't too safe to linger long with all your gears exposed especially at night.

    Sydney harbor bridge, shot hand held after some beers at circular quay pubs.

    24-120mm VR4, f/4, 1/10sec, ISO12800




    D4S_2327 by Light Machinery, on Flickr

  19. #139

    Default Re: D4 User Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    I still would have done it there and then if I am you. What is $300 compared to your time and headaches? You already flew there. You are running a photography business, and should just factor that into your costs.

    A side note... No offence but from what I have read and understood so far from your D4, D700, NSC and NPS sagas, IMHPO it seems you still have a long way to go in learning how to deal with people and situations properly.
    How I deal with situations has nothing to do with the fact that I am facing issues. I appreciate your comments very much but I do not understand why you need to bring in the past. I have been extremely patient in dealing with this D4 issue. Can you imagine someone giving a large corporation numerous chances over a year? I don't think my speaking volume exceeded anything more than 5 decibels more than average even when at the angriest/agitated state when talking to Nikon reps about my issue. I know of alot of other customers far more senior than me who have blown their top over far smaller problems. I hope you do not demonize me, I think I have been fair throughout this case. I respect you very much as a mod and am aware you have many years of experience in the field and also as a member of this forum. The reason why my issue(s) are known to people is because of leakage of information and also many untrue rumors. Infact I have had 2 discussions with Nikon Singapore about their staff breaching my privacy and informing the public about my case. I have even witnessed (overheard, I was seating at the counter area, he was near the display area) a staff member telling another senior photographer about my case and branding me as a "silent protester". Many people are able to vouch for my integrity.

    Also, how much I drive my camera and the type of genre of photography my shoot has nothing to do with the issue. This is an issue about a characteristic of the AF array. I am not questioning the durability of the D4 in any way.

    As stated in my documentation on my dpreview thread, I did attempt to resolve things with Malaysia. They tried to tweak it once but to me there was no difference.

    Also, is there even a "proper" way to deal with my D4 issue? I spent 1 year thinking of the best "proper" way and couldn't come to a conclusion. Sure, I can agree that I'm not the best at dealing with things at the service centre(s), but I think I'm far from the worst!

    And btw, what's the P in IMHPO?
    Last edited by surrephoto; 9th July 2013 at 03:31 AM.

  20. #140

    Default Re: D4 User Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by surrephoto View Post
    Hi friends... regarding the guy who has suffered for almost a year with a D4 with left side AF (or asymmetrical) focusing issue, that would be me.

    I have previously been afriad to post here due to 3 reasons, 1. I was still hoping to resell it & get a new set, 2. I have been non-civil in the past in Nikon sub-forums regarding some things, don't wanna harm myself or stir stuff anymore 3. If I allegedly say that the Nikon D4 is defective, It might develop into an international lawsuit and I do not want to harm anyone in CS.
    [B]
    @ Surrephoto:

    My respectful suggestion:

    If you believe that another set of D4 can solve your problems then you would also believe that changing the defective part would solve the problem.

    However, bodies are not international warranty and if need to get Nikon to honour the warranty, I am afraid you'll have to do it at the country you purchased it. A company needs to abide by its policies without exceptions.

    Otherwise, it would seem that you have isolated the problem to the sensor and having it repaired/changed by the technician/service centre who said they could would likely solve your problem unless you believe otherwise at this juncture.

    I wish you all the best and a swift end to your troubles
    Last edited by Luminare; 9th July 2013 at 05:32 AM.

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