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Thread: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

  1. #21
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by albertri

    That should be the way
    Then cannot complain about 6.9m lor.

  2. #22
    Senior Member albertri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    Then cannot complain about 6.9m lor.

    I think to be honest 6.9 even if Singapore has all the infra in place and more housing. more train more roads etc etc and even Singapore land growns by 20% more by reclaim 6.9M is a bit too much even these are all true blue Singaporean. Singapore has no natural resources like fresh water, forest/farm lands etc.

    But I am not against in promoting higher birth rates to replace the aging population I think they should focus more how to promote a higher birth rate and importing of talents should only be the last options if all fails ....There's no magic bullets but they must try to solve it internally 1st than just anyhow import... Hope Singapore wont follow Japan aging population problem. But Right now with the out cry of no FTs etc etc seem this is where Singapore is heading once we close the faucet then in 2030 we may have serious problem. But we must not do harsh decision we should tackle this step by step...

    Something to read :-)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan
    Last edited by albertri; 22nd February 2013 at 08:16 PM.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cks2k2

    Both. It stopped the cycle of poverty (economic) and improved the lives of many, esp women and children (social).

    My maternal grandpa has > 30 kids. He was poor but kept having kids.
    Who suffered? Everyone suffered - but it was especially hard on the women and children.
    Should have been stop at 3 mar. 30 of course too much.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    This works only as long as the work consist of simple, repeated tasks which can be done in a faster way to achieve more finished tasks in a certain time.
    Work that requires coordination, cooperation, creativity, flexibility and which does not consists of simple repeating steps cannot be improved with monetary incentives. It backfires: people performing such jobs will not work better with a promise of more money but rather perform worse. Unfortunately, many jobs in today's work are no longer simple - something which is still not fully recognized here in SG. So the old dogs keep barking about "work faster, work harder" when actually it is required to work smarter.
    ah
    but i am a cat. i did not say repetitive work. i said sales. without sales growth its not possible to drive revenue growth.
    Quote Originally Posted by keiser View Post
    No I can’t find many of such businesses … but IMO that is exactly why it is worrying when profitability is the top priority and decisions are made purely on economic values. Let me elaborate with an example ... Ideas such as “economies of scale” and “planned obsolesce” to boost or manage profitability are well accepted within our society. However both assumed that infinite amount of resources could be exploited without consequences. Well, look at the recent accelerated climate changes and environmental issues (e.g. smog incidents in the Beijing etc.) … who will ultimately bear these and other emerging repercussion in this highly interconnected world?
    i guess you might not be a business owner. it's all about P and L . more P and no L please
    宁愿遇见丢失幼崽的母熊,也不愿碰上做蠢事的愚人

  5. #25
    Senior Member albertri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    Should have been stop at 3 mar. 30 of course too much.
    I think uncle fai most older generation minimum was 5 :-) then my Parents time around 3-4 my time now 1 or 2 enough 3 is a stretch already...
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  6. #26

    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by albertri View Post
    I think uncle fai most older generation minimum was 5 :-) then my Parents time around 3-4 my time now 1 or 2 enough 3 is a stretch already...
    iStupid, android phones, phone games, mobile FB, PSP, XBox, etc are all wonderful contraceptives.

    eg
    Wife (in knock out lingerie very obviously and clearly stating her intention for the night) : Hubby...here I am...we can do whatever you like..."
    Hubby : "great darling! i love you, get us a can of beer each and let's play Skyrim together " (actually i don't know what games are new, only quoting KPT thread )

    see? got so many other entertainment now...i bet even now some of you are reading this on your phone, mobile device or computer instead of going to bed with your spouse. im guilty too. but it is my turn to look after the kittens tonight.
    宁愿遇见丢失幼崽的母熊,也不愿碰上做蠢事的愚人

  7. #27

    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma View Post
    iStupid, android phones, phone games, mobile FB, PSP, XBox, etc are all wonderful contraceptives.

    eg
    Wife (in knock out lingerie very obviously and clearly stating her intention for the night) : Hubby...here I am...we can do whatever you like..."
    Hubby : "great darling! i love you, get us a can of beer each and let's play Skyrim together " (actually i don't know what games are new, only quoting KPT thread )

    see? got so many other entertainment now...i bet even now some of you are reading this on your phone, mobile device or computer instead of going to bed with your spouse. im guilty too. but it is my turn to look after the kittens tonight.
    This is so true.. we have a lot of substitutes.. and wonderful alternatives.. from games.. TV.. outing with frens..
    whereas in the rural old days.. after sundown.. no electricity.. what else can you do

  8. #28
    Senior Member albertri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanzohattori

    This is so true.. we have a lot of substitutes.. and wonderful alternatives.. from games.. TV.. outing with frens..
    whereas in the rural old days.. after sundown.. no electricity.. what else can you do
    Like they say if a couple are bored they enjoy :-) if they're busy and stress where got time to enjoy and play tag?
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  9. #29
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by albertri View Post
    That should be the way
    I believe this is the wrong way, it will create a society of layers or classes. It gives room for a snobbish mentality of those in the upper layer (don't you have this already?) looking down on the lower layers as replaceable workforce, but not as human beings. Dangerous in many ways. The better way it to have local people and foreigners in all layers of the society.
    EOS

  10. #30

    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    I believe this is the wrong way, it will create a society of layers or classes. It gives room for a snobbish mentality of those in the upper layer (don't you have this already?) looking down on the lower layers as replaceable workforce, but not as human beings. Dangerous in many ways. The better way it to have local people and foreigners in all layers of the society.
    There are jobs Singaporeans won't do (cleaner etc) and there are jobs Singaporeans can't do (fancy research stuff etc).
    Again all about striking the right balance.

  11. #31
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cks2k2

    There are jobs Singaporeans won't do (cleaner etc) and there are jobs Singaporeans can't do (fancy research stuff etc).
    Again all about striking the right balance.
    I think the dissenting voices are saying that those jobs that Singaporeans can and would like to do, they should enjoy a priority. In particular, don't allow employers to get away with hiring a cheaper foreign worker instead.

  12. #32
    Senior Member albertri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    I think the dissenting voices are saying that those jobs that Singaporeans can and would like to do, they should enjoy a priority. In particular, don't allow employers to get away with hiring a cheaper foreign worker instead.
    Uncle Fai maybe my company is a bit different but we try to hire locals as much as possible and we are in the IT line of business we are hiring Data Center Engineers but very few local willing to take on, salary wise is very good we are fair when it comes to salary we normally tries to match the market price. Sadly it's very hard to find Local willing to do shift works or on standby even if you're willing to pay for over time and transport.... So there are times we have no choice but take on PR or FT even PR acting like locals now a days... So when we hire FT all of them are eligeble for E-Pass not S-Pass so meaning it's professional and salary range is very good. So for us hiring managers really have a huge problem attracting locals...

    I have a friend also who works at MBS he said initially they dont accept FT all jobs are for locals they even have job fairs but very few locals willing to take up the work. Now when they open for FT they getting backslash saying they only hiring FT :-(.... It's really hard for hiring managers like me wait long long for a perfect local to apply we have our bottomline to protect the longer we have the slot open the more $$$ we lost. About salary of FT, yes some are cheaper but I think a lot of FT salary is very good already even comparing with some locals already...

    Another issue we have is retention its really hard to keep some (not all) local in place specially in the line of business we are in... Maybe its the line of business or Job scope why this area of IT is not very well famous in most locals...
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  13. #33
    Senior Member albertri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    I believe this is the wrong way, it will create a society of layers or classes. It gives room for a snobbish mentality of those in the upper layer (don't you have this already?) looking down on the lower layers as replaceable workforce, but not as human beings. Dangerous in many ways. The better way it to have local people and foreigners in all layers of the society.
    The problem here is most locals dont want to do low end jobs in the 1st place... until we came up of ways for locals to work blue collared jobs then we dont need to import anymore. I am a hiring manager in an IT and I am having problem attracting locals coz we work in shift and on standby when they hear that most backs out once we have posted a JD and no locals even PR applies for a month :-(
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  14. #34
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by albertri View Post
    The problem here is most locals dont want to do low end jobs in the 1st place... until we came up of ways for locals to work blue collared jobs then we dont need to import anymore.
    The reason, imho is, something in the mindset of local people. These jobs, at a certain point in time, were either labeled or were considered as 'low end' or 'dirty' jobs and as a result locals felt they are too good to do them. So they not only imported maids for cleaning bum and kitchen but also imported other workers for construction, healthcare, you name it. Secondly, due to the endless rush for quick profit, nobody wanted to pay much for such jobs. As a result, these jobs are so low paid that no local can take them and feed a family, considering all the other payments to CPF etc. The entire sector of low paid jobs is distorted. But not only this sector. I was shocked to see how little money bus captains earn here, considering that they are responsible for the lives of passengers and an expensive bus. This is a road to disaster. Jobs should be paid reasonably, then local people will pick them up and can feed their families.

    Quote Originally Posted by albertri View Post
    I am a hiring manager in an IT and I am having problem attracting locals coz we work in shift and on standby when they hear that most backs out once we have posted a JD and no locals even PR applies for a month :-(
    I'm working in an IT outsourcing company. We have the same issue but is has been solved (more or less) by central guideline from HQ: all operational jobs are shifted to Malaysia where we have a big regional operational center. In Singapore we have the remaining jobs for coordination, management, customer facing teams, finance etc.
    But for our facility management we still have the issue from time to time. Mostly we have to fall back to people from Malaysia. Again here: the sector is distorted due to never ending pressure and crunch on the salary.
    EOS

  15. #35
    Senior Member albertri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post


    I'm working in an IT outsourcing company. We have the same issue but is has been solved (more or less) by central guideline from HQ: all operational jobs are shifted to Malaysia where we have a big regional operational center. In Singapore we have the remaining jobs for coordination, management, customer facing teams, finance etc.
    But for our facility management we still have the issue from time to time. Mostly we have to fall back to people from Malaysia. Again here: the sector is distorted due to never ending pressure and crunch on the salary.

    I wish we could do that by my Datacenter is here in SG we cant move something like that to other countries one reason we choose Singapore is it' connectivity and no natural calamities like storm earthquakes... So for now we cant move our ops to other countries.
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  16. #36
    Senior Member albertri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    The reason, imho is, something in the mindset of local people. These jobs, at a certain point in time, were either labeled or were considered as 'low end' or 'dirty' jobs and as a result locals felt they are too good to do them. So they not only imported maids for cleaning bum and kitchen but also imported other workers for construction, healthcare, you name it. Secondly, due to the endless rush for quick profit, nobody wanted to pay much for such jobs. As a result, these jobs are so low paid that no local can take them and feed a family, considering all the other payments to CPF etc. The entire sector of low paid jobs is distorted. But not only this sector. I was shocked to see how little money bus captains earn here, considering that they are responsible for the lives of passengers and an expensive bus. This is a road to disaster. Jobs should be paid reasonably, then local people will pick them up and can feed their families.
    I agree unless Singaporean are willing to accept such position like Japanese in thier hometown that's one reason Japan survive almost no reliance with FT or FW as they have portion of thier population willing and proud to be a farmer/fisherman/construction works/bus drivers/taxi driver etc.... And they support local products and most of thier companies do produce products for local market only. So until we have a business company and population in that mindset Singapore will need to rely to FT and FW....
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  17. #37
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by albertri View Post
    I wish we could do that by my Datacenter is here in SG we cant move something like that to other countries one reason we choose Singapore is it' connectivity and no natural calamities like storm earthquakes... So for now we cant move our ops to other countries.
    Our datacenter is here - for the very same reason that you state Only the people, the daily system operations, is moved to Malaysia.
    EOS

  18. #38

    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    I believe this is the wrong way, it will create a society of layers or classes. It gives room for a snobbish mentality of those in the upper layer (don't you have this already?) looking down on the lower layers as replaceable workforce, but not as human beings. Dangerous in many ways. The better way it to have local people and foreigners in all layers of the society.
    Not only that.. but if locals want a managerial position straightaway after uni/college.. well.. good luck for the company.


    One does not simply become a manager

    They should work their way up to know the nuts and bolts and what makes the company/product ticks..
    Last edited by hanzohattori; 23rd February 2013 at 03:58 PM. Reason: add image for illustration

  19. #39
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by cks2k2 View Post
    There are jobs Singaporeans won't do (cleaner etc) and there are jobs Singaporeans can't do (fancy research stuff etc).
    Again all about striking the right balance.
    Why would Singaporeans not do cleaner jobs? Have you thought about the root cause?
    And why would Singaporeans not be able to do 'fancy research stuff'? Do you know that your government allows biological research here in Singapore which is banned (for a good reason) in European countries? Whether this is fancy or not is not the point ..
    Balance is a buzzword used by those sitting at the upper end.
    EOS

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    It says a lot when I have a group of PRC technicians earning 3K with OT come up to me and say they tak boleh tahan liao and wants to return home after their contract expires. Apparently their counterparts in PRC also have around the same basic salary if not just slightly less.
    Don't think PRC technicians get paid that much in their country in production plants, certainly not 5 digit rmb. But then after deduction of room rentals, food, transport, air ticket, big ticket items to carry home, etc. It probably comes to be quite close.

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