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Thread: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

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    Default Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Hmm ... i wonder will this happen? What you think? ... For me, I open my eyes big big to see when ... kekeke

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    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    It is the bubble gum syndrome once again. Using a big hammer to solve the problem without really understanding what "job" really are lost versus what jobs singaporean just refuse to take up. I am facing this problem with manpower. If this goes on... anyone want to pay say 20-30% for a product they buy in a store? Becasue in order to keep a Singaporean sale staff happy he/she expect more money for having to "serve" other people, need more off days, shorter working hours, possible have more weekend off days, no last minute fill for other but alright for them to take urgent leave....etc. At the slightest pressure from a bad customer...throw letter.

    If they dont want to break it down to see what so call important jobs are going to foreigners then this is not solving the problem but making new ones. There is no one size fit all solution.

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    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888 View Post
    Becasue in order to keep a Singaporean sale staff happy he/she expect more money for having to "serve" other people, need more off days, shorter working hours, possible have more weekend off days, no last minute fill for other but alright for them to take urgent leave....etc. At the slightest pressure from a bad customer...throw letter.
    That's all the things that foreign workers are deprived of .. It's also called exploitation.
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    Senior Member Halfmoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    That's all the things that foreign workers are deprived of .. It's also called exploitation.
    Even for local... it is not uncommon for them to be exploited by business, and our government, being a PRO-BUSINESS.... so who do you think they will protect????
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Barking up the wrong tree.

    Hypothetical situation:
    When CEO of a big corporation/bank is a FT & he then starts to fill in top few levels of senior mgt ranks within the corporation/bank with his countrymen FTs; and when they gang up to bully the local PMETS, that is when locals are fed up.

    No one in SG is complaining about low wage workers from poorer countries.

    Either the white-paper-guys really don't know what is the problem or they pretend not to know and go about solving the wrong issue, which was never a problem.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 21st February 2013 at 11:41 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    business is a zero sum game of everyone , boss, staff, customers , exploiting each other to the tolerable limit.

    you may wish to restructure your business model to incentivise your staff to sell more, eg commission based or profit sharing. rational staff are selfish staff and work best if working for perceived self benefit, although of course skillful management and leadership are important too
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    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma View Post
    you may wish to restructure your business model to incentivise your staff to sell more, eg commission based or profit sharing. rational staff are selfish staff and work best if working for perceived self benefit, although of course skillful management and leadership are important too
    This works only as long as the work consist of simple, repeated tasks which can be done in a faster way to achieve more finished tasks in a certain time.
    Work that requires coordination, cooperation, creativity, flexibility and which does not consists of simple repeating steps cannot be improved with monetary incentives. It backfires: people performing such jobs will not work better with a promise of more money but rather perform worse. Unfortunately, many jobs in today's work are no longer simple - something which is still not fully recognized here in SG. So the old dogs keep barking about "work faster, work harder" when actually it is required to work smarter.
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    It says a lot when I have a group of PRC technicians earning 3K with OT come up to me and say they tak boleh tahan liao and wants to return home after their contract expires. Apparently their counterparts in PRC also have around the same basic salary if not just slightly less.
    Last edited by 9V-Orion Images; 22nd February 2013 at 02:37 AM.
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    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    It says a lot when I have a group of PRC technicians earning 3K with OT come up to me and say they tak boleh tahan liao and wants to return home after their contract expires. Apparently their counterparts in PRC also have around the same basic salary if not just slightly less.
    They might be hinting that a sizable raise is due. Hehehe
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    Singapore employers have enjoyed low wages and stable supply of employees either locally or imported. The government have provided them strong support and secured environment to run their business. It is almost a guarantee biz plan to start biz here.

    While this is perfectly ok and in fact good for a growing economy, we have reached the saturation point where many cannot cope to 'feed' the top layer. We are moving to the next level (European standard) but need to hold the hands of those left behind to ensure they are not left behind.

    We are now crossing this bridge. Hope we have a good team to guide everyone across.

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    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by keiser View Post
    Hmm ... i wonder will this happen? What you think? ... For me, I open my eyes big big to see when ... kekeke

    Business: Washington Post Business Page, Business News
    what you guys have demanded/protested/will vote for .... the government will likely give in to these demands ... you live with what you have asked for


    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888 View Post
    It is the bubble gum syndrome once again. Using a big hammer to solve the problem without really understanding what "job" really are lost versus what jobs singaporean just refuse to take up. I am facing this problem with manpower. If this goes on... anyone want to pay say 20-30% for a product they buy in a store? Becasue in order to keep a Singaporean sale staff happy he/she expect more money for having to "serve" other people, need more off days, shorter working hours, possible have more weekend off days, no last minute fill for other but alright for them to take urgent leave....etc. At the slightest pressure from a bad customer...throw letter.

    If they dont want to break it down to see what so call important jobs are going to foreigners then this is not solving the problem but making new ones. There is no one size fit all solution.
    problem is.... everyone wants a top white-collar job .... even if you replace EVERY white-collar salaried FT with a local .... sooner or later there will not be enough locals qualified to replace them ... unless you want to adopt a Bumiputra-like policy that keeps 'good' jobs for locals and live with the consequences like our neighbor up north

    Just remember... there has to be BUSINESS and WORK to be done .....(and NOT everyone will be a manager) .... THEN there will be jobs
    Last edited by ed9119; 22nd February 2013 at 11:12 AM.
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119 View Post

    Just remember... there has to be BUSINESS and WORK to be done .....(and NOT everyone will be a manager) .... THEN there will be jobs
    Are you advocating the business or profits precedes everything under the sun perspective or view?

    (Mod: this is my bad I apologize... I was doing some forum house-cleaning work when I accidentally deleted your comments in this post... I only managed to save the last 2 lines above . You were NOT censored. Please feel free to quote me again and respond. My Apologies)
    Last edited by ed9119; 22nd February 2013 at 04:43 PM.

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    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    "Are you advocating the business or profits precedes everything under the sun perspective or view?"

    err...advocate what ? Its a fact and a common theme/objective when doing business ... unless you can enlighten us on a type of business where profit takes a back seat . It is not the ONLY objective, but a primary one that stands first ahead of any other noble objectives

    Even when a firm/company is strong on social responsibility and looks after its employees, the bottom line is still primary
    Last edited by ed9119; 22nd February 2013 at 02:38 PM.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119 View Post
    "Are you advocating the business or profits precedes everything under the sun perspective or view?"

    err...advocate what ? Its a fact and a common theme/objective when doing business ... unless you can enlighten us on a type of business where profit takes a back seat . It is not the ONLY objective, but a primary one that stands first ahead of any other noble objectives

    Even when a firm/company is strong on social responsibility and looks after its employees, the bottom line is still primary
    True.. unless everyone can have their stomach filled just by doing good.. or having work-life balance.. etc

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    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    anyone work for free ? I'll be keen to hire them
    shaddap and just shoot .... up close
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    No I can’t find many of such businesses … but IMO that is exactly why it is worrying when profitability is the top priority and decisions are made purely on economic values. Let me elaborate with an example ... Ideas such as “economies of scale” and “planned obsolesce” to boost or manage profitability are well accepted within our society. However both assumed that infinite amount of resources could be exploited without consequences. Well, look at the recent accelerated climate changes and environmental issues (e.g. smog incidents in the Beijing etc.) … who will ultimately bear these and other emerging repercussion in this highly interconnected world?

    … Btw, do you think LKY’s “stop at 2” policy in the past was base more on economic or other values?


    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119 View Post
    "Are you advocating the business or profits precedes everything under the sun perspective or view?"

    err...advocate what ? Its a fact and a common theme/objective when doing business ... unless you can enlighten us on a type of business where profit takes a back seat . It is not the ONLY objective, but a primary one that stands first ahead of any other noble objectives

    Even when a firm/company is strong on social responsibility and looks after its employees, the bottom line is still primary

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    Senior Member albertri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888 View Post
    It is the bubble gum syndrome once again. Using a big hammer to solve the problem without really understanding what "job" really are lost versus what jobs singaporean just refuse to take up. I am facing this problem with manpower. If this goes on... anyone want to pay say 20-30% for a product they buy in a store? Becasue in order to keep a Singaporean sale staff happy he/she expect more money for having to "serve" other people, need more off days, shorter working hours, possible have more weekend off days, no last minute fill for other but alright for them to take urgent leave....etc. At the slightest pressure from a bad customer...throw letter.

    If they dont want to break it down to see what so call important jobs are going to foreigners then this is not solving the problem but making new ones. There is no one size fit all solution.
    agree with you on this...

    I think regulating is the key word we cant really totally close the faucet else we will look like Japan now in 2030.... Aging population, Very High Cost of living, labour cost is high, basic commodities are expenssive also, property is way over hills expenssive. Reason how Japan survive the way they are doing is because they have a strong local market... Most Japanese buys thier own made products and thier local brand creates local products for local consumption only, Also they have portion of thier population willing to become and proud of being farmers/fishers/construction workers/cleaners etc. Until we have such mentality/Nationalism and local busineses The "Singapore for Singaporean" is hard to achieve :-(. And some more we dont have natural resources.... our natural resources is Human Skill
    Last edited by albertri; 22nd February 2013 at 06:07 PM.
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    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119 View Post
    Just remember... there has to be BUSINESS and WORK to be done .....(and NOT everyone will be a manager) .... THEN there will be jobs
    I believe the White Paper's plan is for (most) Singaporeans to be the PMETs (i.e., managers and professionals) while we import workers to do the actual work.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by keiser View Post
    … Btw, do you think LKY’s “stop at 2” policy in the past was base more on economic or other values?

    Both. It stopped the cycle of poverty (economic) and improved the lives of many, esp women and children (social).

    My maternal grandpa has > 30 kids. He was poor but kept having kids.
    Who suffered? Everyone suffered - but it was especially hard on the women and children.

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    Senior Member albertri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labor Curbs After Protest in the Heartland?

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    I believe the White Paper's plan is for (most) Singaporeans to be the PMETs (i.e., managers and professionals) while we import workers to do the actual work.
    That should be the way
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