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Thread: Question on color profiles...

  1. #1

    Default Question on color profiles...

    I have a small problem that I hope you guys can help me with:

    My PS CS colorspace is set to sRGB, and my monitor is profiled using the Eye1, hence has its own 'calibrated' color profile. In PS CS I chose to convert pics to use the working color profile and not the embedded profile, so my pics I assume are opened using sRGB. After doing all the adjustments, I then save a copy of the pic in TIFF and another in JPEG, and upload the latter to pBase. However, here I see a difference in the colors between the same pic displayed in PS and on IE (i.e. pBase).. I have not compressed the picture in any way using pBase's compression, and I assume that IE displays sRGB as the native colorspace.. so can anyone help me? What am I doing wrong? Why doesn't my pic look the same after I upload to pBase?

    Cheers

  2. #2
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    After you saved, did you view it through your desktop via IE?

    Normally, I open up in NC, embed the colour profile for the screen into the images and I set PS CS to use the same color profile as NC. Does PS embeds color profile into it? If it doesn't, might that be the problem?

    Your IE should be using the monitor profile.

  3. #3

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    hmmm, no didn't open in IE, will will try tonight... so what should i do now? Should I set NC and PS to all use the monitor profile? Shouldn't the monitor profile be for the monitor only? It should not have anything to do with the colorprofile in PS and IE rite?

  4. #4
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    Nope, IE uses the monitor profile.

    NC uses the NikonsRGB profile by default. PS has it's own sRGB profile that it uses also, as mentioned by watcher in the workshop.

    Normally, I will set NC and PS to use the calibrated profile.

    Hope it helps...

  5. #5

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    Your monitor profile influences how all windows programs display colour, except for those that can specifically be overridden. No matter what colour profile an image uses and what program is used, it will be applied. This is to ensure you are getting a correct intepretation from your moniter.

    IE only recognizes sRGB, if there is a difference in PS-CS and IE, it probably means that your file was not properly converted and tagged as sRGB. Note that both IE and PS-CS are using your moniter profile by default, unless you have changed it in CS.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerstorer
    Your monitor profile influences how all windows programs display colour, except for those that can specifically be overridden. No matter what colour profile an image uses and what program is used, it will be applied. This is to ensure you are getting a correct intepretation from your moniter.
    Need some clarification to clear my doubts... you mentioned the profile influences the applications, except for those that can be overridden, a bit confused as you mentioned later that no matter what color profile is used, it will be applied.

    1) When you say profile influences the apps, I presume you're saying the profile will be applied? Or?

    2) And when you say those that can be overridden (assumption PSCS/NC) does the profile of the monitor still gets applied (as asked in my first Q)?



    Quote Originally Posted by Zerstorer
    IE only recognizes sRGB, if there is a difference in PS-CS and IE, it probably means that your file was not properly converted and tagged as sRGB. Note that both IE and PS-CS are using your moniter profile by default, unless you have changed it in CS.
    If I change it in CS, should it change for IE, no right?

    Thanks!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    Need some clarification to clear my doubts... you mentioned the profile influences the applications, except for those that can be overridden, a bit confused as you mentioned later that no matter what color profile is used, it will be applied.
    The correct word I should have used there was colour space. Though they are essentially all icc profiles, they are used in a different manner.

    Regardless of what colourspace an image is in, it still has to go through profile conversion before display on your moniter.

    1) When you say profile influences the apps, I presume you're saying the profile will be applied? Or?
    Windows Apps->Moniter Profile->Monitor

    As I said previously, unless specifically overridden in a colour management aware program, windows apps output display colours are converted by your monitor profile before it reaches your monitor.

    Just look at how your desktop appearance changes whenever the monitor profile is loaded.

    So to answer your question, yes, it the profile is applied, else it will not be in use. Apply profile != Convert to profile
    2) And when you say those that can be overridden (assumption PSCS/NC) does the profile of the monitor still gets applied (as asked in my first Q)?
    No, the profile used will be the one chosen within the program. Images displayed within that program window will be different from images outside.


    If I change it in CS, should it change for IE, no right?

    Thanks!
    No. PS can use a profile independent of the system monitor profile although it uses the system profile by default.

    IE basically runs on the system monitor profile.

  8. #8

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    I'm still a bit confused about this: basically, I have a calibrated profile which my monitor uses. Then what profile do I have to set my NC and PS to use so that I can see the exact same image in PS, NC and also in IE? Do I set everything to sRGB (except the monitor profile in display properties?) Thanks

    BTW I opened the same JPEG in IE and its (unsurprisingly) the same as what I see on pBase (doh!)
    Last edited by Gymrat76; 24th March 2005 at 01:50 PM.

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    Zerstorer: Thanks.. I see now, so my understanding is still correct thus far.

    gymrat76: Basically you need to point the programs to use the same monitor profile as the one in your monitor profile.

    As Zerstorer has mentioned, IE will use the system's profile, so Pbase is viewed in IE, and IE is using your system's profile, so it should show the same! Heehee.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gymrat76
    I'm still a bit confused about this: basically, I have a calibrated profile which my monitor uses. Then what profile do I have to set my NC and PS to use so that I can see the exact same image in PS, NC and also in IE? Do I set everything to sRGB (except the monitor profile in display properties?) Thanks

    BTW I opened the same JPEG in IE and its (unsurprisingly) the same as what I see on pBase (doh!)
    When you are saving the image in PS... go to Image - Mode - Convert to profile... and choose sRGB. Then you save the image.... Choose high quality jpg to maintain high color fidelity....


    This will ensure the image is embedded with sRGB when you save it. If it helps, create an action to do this step.

    I think the image wasn't embedded with sRGB and causing the IE to display different colors.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gymrat76
    I'm still a bit confused about this: basically, I have a calibrated profile which my monitor uses. Then what profile do I have to set my NC and PS to use so that I can see the exact same image in PS, NC and also in IE? Do I set everything to sRGB (except the monitor profile in display properties?) Thanks
    Nikon Capture always uses the system monitor profile. The option to change it leads straight to the system display settings.Hence it can't be set to a profile independent of the system monitor settings.(Note to ESPN)

    Only Photoshop, C1, ACDSee 7 can be set to use other profiles for proofing. Unless you know what you are doing, make sure they are all using the same monitor profile for consistency.

    Don't confuse working colourspaces with monitor output profiles, they are not the same. e.g NKAdobe is the default working space for Nikon Capture, but it has no relation to the monitor profile. It merely defines the colour space used when you edit your image and save your image.

    Most web browsers are not colour aware(unless you use a MAC), so they always assume all images are in sRGB colourspace. If your image is in any other colourspace it will be interpreted wrongly.

  12. #12

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    Got it! Will go back and try... thanks for the lesson guys

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerstorer
    Nikon Capture always uses the system monitor profile. The option to change it leads straight to the system display settings.Hence it can't be set to a profile independent of the system monitor settings.(Note to ESPN)

    Only Photoshop, C1, ACDSee 7 can be set to use other profiles for proofing. Unless you know what you are doing, make sure they are all using the same monitor profile for consistency.

    Don't confuse working colourspaces with monitor output profiles, they are not the same. e.g NKAdobe is the default working space for Nikon Capture, but it has no relation to the monitor profile. It merely defines the colour space used when you edit your image and save your image.

    Most web browsers are not colour aware(unless you use a MAC), so they always assume all images are in sRGB colourspace. If your image is in any other colourspace it will be interpreted wrongly.
    Ah.. yes, now I see what you mean. Dang... all the while I was reading the box as "RGB Color Profile" in NC, it's colorspace. Sheesh.

    But frankly, if using the Monitor's Profile as colorspace, wouldn't that be more accurate instead of using the default colorspace? Would I still need to do proofing in PS?

    Thanks... you just made me realise all along I've been doing the wrong settings in PS and NC. Sheesh... back to the old drawing board.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    Ah.. yes, now I see what you mean. Dang... all the while I was reading the box as "RGB Color Profile" in NC, it's colorspace. Sheesh.

    But frankly, if using the Monitor's Profile as colorspace, wouldn't that be more accurate instead of using the default colorspace? Would I still need to do proofing in PS?
    Using the monitor's profile as working space does ensure that what you are editing will be as accurately represented by the monitor as possible(no conversion loss). This advantage is minimal in my opinion as the profile conversion does give a good representation.

    More importantly, you would probably be working in a narrow colourspace. Note that most monitors's gamut do not even exceed that of standard sRGB(with reference to a Sony G420). This would mean that if you edit and save your images in this narrow gamut, you might lose the ability to print/output certain saturated tones that lie outside of your monitor's gamut. Most of the inkjets nowadays exceed sRGB and most monitors in some colours.

  15. #15

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    Still can't work.. this is what I've done:

    1. In Edit>Color Settings: set RGB to Monitor RGB (i.e. calibrated profile)

    2. Open the TIFF file. PS prompts me that embedded profile differs from working color space, i.e. Nikon sRGB embedded vs. Monitor RGB. Select "Convert document to working color space"

    3. Pic opens, still the nice adjusted colors that I want.

    4. Image>Mode>Convert to Profile.. select Profile as sRGB IEC61966-2.1

    5. Image>Mode>8 bit

    6. Save in JPEG, high quality and upload to pBase (or open in IE)

    Image colors have changed.. still not the color that I want... Where did I go wrong?

    Also tried Jopel's method, same thing, different colors on PS CS and on IE

  16. #16

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    Sounds like your system monitor profile may not be properly applied. Check that your monitor profile is listed as the default profile under your windows->display settings->advanced->colourmanagement.

    Better yet, post a sample of the offending image.
    Last edited by Zerstorer; 25th March 2005 at 12:42 AM.

  17. #17

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    Just checked, yes, the default profile is the calibrated profile in windows->display settings->advanced->colourmanagement.

    This is the pic:



    In PS CS her face is slightly more pinkish compared to IE which displays it slightly more light brown. Her top also displays as a slightly darker blue compared to lighter blue in IE (well, on my PC anyway)
    Last edited by Gymrat76; 25th March 2005 at 01:10 AM.

  18. #18

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    have you disable Adobe Gamma?

  19. #19

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    OK, I tried setting my color space as sRGB IEC61966-2.1. I then opened the image in PS and it was OK. Then I did the View > Proof Setup > Custom > select Monitor Calibrated Profile (.icm) > tick the preserved Color Numbers Box. The moment I ticked the 'preserved color numbers' box the image colors changed to what I saw in IE before, i.e. colours not as nice.

    Actually, can you explain what the steps above does? Cause I'm just following your instructions without knowing WHAT and WHY is does what it does

    Oh BTW, Adobe Gamma is disabled of course. Just not clear yet if my working space in PS should be set to sRGB IEC61966-2.1 or the calibrated monitor profile

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gymrat76
    OK, I tried setting my color space as sRGB IEC61966-2.1. I then opened the image in PS and it was OK. Then I did the View > Proof Setup > Custom > select Monitor Calibrated Profile (.icm) > tick the preserved Color Numbers Box. The moment I ticked the 'preserved color numbers' box the image colors changed to what I saw in IE before, i.e. colours not as nice.
    "Preserved Colour Numbers" essentially shows you what you would see in a program that either doesn't recognize profiles or that the profile is not applied.

    Basically, this hints that your system monitor profile might not even be working.

    Are you using an Eye-one? If so you should see the desktop change colour just when the profile loads itself during windows startup.

    Oh BTW, Adobe Gamma is disabled of course. Just not clear yet if my working space in PS should be set to sRGB IEC61966-2.1 or the calibrated monitor profile
    It doesn't really matter, any colourspace can be selected as your working space as long as the gamut it wide enough to satisfy your needs.

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