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Thread: Petition urging the United Nations to reject Japan's bid for a permanent seat on the

  1. #121
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee
    To the japs friends reading this, pls understand we are not against you.

    Hope by reading this and also the world news, you should be able to judge for yourself if there is any truth of what had been this discussion. Do research on your own, seek the truth, and strive to make you gov realise the common view of what others thinks of your beloved country.
    After reviews, I agree on denniskees' statement.

    I apologise on my earlier statement as it is not against all present Japanese friends, but to the hardliners who refuse to admit, who refuse to say sorry.
    Last edited by King Tiger; 25th March 2005 at 11:42 AM.
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  2. #122
    Senior Member Hommie's Avatar
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    Let have a list why Japan should not have the seat in UN.

    1. They didn't admit their mistake on WWII.
    2. They change or had their own history version of WWII.
    3. They try to tell their young genertation that Japan didn't start the war.
    4. They came to FREE the country whose was under England, Western country hand.
    4. They are rescuer.
    6. They said they are the victims of World War II, frequently using Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a focus point to show the next generation of their very own suffering.
    7. They claims they are force to start a war with U.S because U.S embargo thier supply lines.
    8. Some Japs claims that the Nanjing masscare never exisit, it is just a buff by the China.
    9. Comfort Women


    I can forgive them for all of the above but not the last one.

  3. #123
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hommie
    9. Comfort Women

    I can forgive them for all of the above but not the last one.
    I am totally agree with Hommie.
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  4. #124
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    Now, before we hail one country as 'champions of justice, peace and democracy' and another country as 'evil', I'd like to ask if what do u guys think of countries like Russia and US?

    If we are talking about 'official records', Unit 731 did exist. They were used to carry out biological experiments on human subjects. Now, how about the 'unofficial records' which NEVER SAW THE LIGHT OF DAY? Can we say that US and Russia NEVER HAD SUCH SIMILAR UNITS AS WELL?

    Before we start country bashing over using Human as Biological Experiment Test Subjects, I'd like u guys to think about it.
    Innocent until proven otherwise. What you say may be true, but until it can be proven, do you it is suitable to pass such comment of yours?
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  5. #125
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    If symbol of peace is a dove, then U.N should be a sitting duck

    Why should you bother? if you devote more time and energy to make your country rich and powerful. Who would in their right frame of mind, want to bother you?
    Some countries are more equal than others, after all, life ain't meant to be fair.


    勝者為王,敗者為寇

  6. #126
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    Guys, we shall agree to disagree.Trying to convert each other is a pointless activity.We have made our case, and we each have our own stand of different issues.Let's leave it at that, we're a photography nuts forum, let's not turn this into a liberal vs conservative vs nationalist flame war.
    We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities. - Oscar Wilde

  7. #127
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    ya ,cant fogive them esp the " comfort women "stuff, see how was it like to have jap girls becoming comfort womens , japs soldiers are SicK

  8. #128
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    If the world hadn't moved on, Japan would not be the electronics giant it is right now. We have accepted Japan's economy, we have accepted Japan's culture, 'we' are not "still looking backwards".

    However, a permanent seat in the UN is a serious matter which cannot be trivalised as "I use nikon camera, so how can I oppose". This "owed apology" is owed by whom? Not the japanese people, it is their government. Their government wants the seat, not the japanese civilians (they may support, but they are not the ones in control). If their government cannot admit to their past and continue to do as they are doing, what moral and humanitarian rights do they have to sit in a world security committe?

    Do you not think it is so hypocritical that the Japanese government, who refuses to acknowledge their past in WWII, should be given a seat in the UN? Does it add up? Are they going to be respected? Are you respecting them for their humanitarian aid / their financial support / the rifles they are holding / ?

    I would not disagree that the Japanese do have a lot offer to the international fraternity. But on moral grounds, they should not be allowed a permanent seat until they let themselves accept the past.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxtwo
    If the world hadn't moved on, Japan would not be the electronics giant it is right now. We have accepted Japan's economy, we have accepted Japan's culture, 'we' are not "still looking backwards".

    However, a permanent seat in the UN is a serious matter which cannot be trivalised as "I use nikon camera, so how can I oppose". This "owed apology" is owed by whom? Not the japanese people, it is their government. Their government wants the seat, not the japanese civilians (they may support, but they are not the ones in control). If their government cannot admit to their past and continue to do as they are doing, what moral and humanitarian rights do they have to sit in a world security committe?

    Do you not think it is so hypocritical that the Japanese government, who refuses to acknowledge their past in WWII, should be given a seat in the UN? Does it add up? Are they going to be respected? Are you respecting them for their humanitarian aid / their financial support / the rifles they are holding / ?

    I would not disagree that the Japanese do have a lot offer to the international fraternity. But on moral grounds, they should not be allowed a permanent seat until they let themselves accept the past.
    totally agree with you, thanks for keeping the discussion on track

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee
    Innocent until proven otherwise. What you say may be true, but until it can be proven, do you it is suitable to pass such comment of yours?
    Well, I can tell u that some things do exist.

    Of cos, since ur philosophy's 'Innocent till proven Guilty'.... well then...

    One thing for sure, the world's really a pretty place till u'd seen the other side of it. The word 'World Peace' is a near impossibility.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by scifreaker
    ya ,cant fogive them esp the " comfort women "stuff, see how was it like to have jap girls becoming comfort womens , japs soldiers are SicK
    When war comes, all sense of reason and moral goes outta da door.

  12. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    Raping, looting, massacre, hardliners in serving the current govt... Now, tell me which country member in the UN Security Council has NEVER done that? 50yrs, 100yrs, 1000yrs... Every country had went thru a process of 'been there, done that'. So-called 'civilised nations' u see now were aggressors one way or another in the history of mankind. The difference between them and 'recent aggressors' like Japan is juz the process of white-washing history to suit themselves.

    History is written by the victors, is judged on perspective and shaped by politics. If we wanna talk about WWII being a fight of 'good & evil', how about WWI? How abt other fairly recent wars like Iran, Afganistan, Iraq? Now, if we wanna talk about stuff like dis, how abt The Opium War in the 1800s? Holy Crusades against the Islamic Nations, etc, etc.

    Let's not get sore over events 60 years ago. We are all (directly or indirectly) so-called 'lapdogs'. Be it Western Cultural Invasion, Japanese Cultural Invasion or Korean Cultural Invasion, etc, etc. If what we gonna do is to get sore over what happened 60yrs ago and refuse to move on simply because of 'an owed apology', there can never be a future simply because we are still looking backwards.

    Man's eyes are not made directional for fun. Its there for a purpose.

    My take on this. Peace.

    Do u know WWII started because of WWI? Definitely we won't want other WWIII because of what happened in WWII. Of coz, everyone wants peace. Who don't want? We do not want other misguided young Japanese zealots to start the WWIII. A history lesson has to be learnt for the young japanese generation not distorted facts.

  13. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by goering
    Agreed, but between Japan and China, based on present circumstances, I'd pick Japan as the lesser of the two evils

    How about the way China treated the Tibetans?

    The way China throws its weight around today with their fast growing influence is indeed very chilling. The amount of noise they generated - even with Singapore over a small issue that is well within Singapore's right is extremely sickening and distasteful

    Everyday there are news about cross straits tensions between China & Taiwan and the way China is elbowing other countries into their favour is very high handed
    Can u be more specific? Seven Days in Tibet and the Free Tibet movement to me is merely rhetoric. And I don't believe there's any government that will tolerate separatism.
    When I do right, no one remembers. When I do wrong, no one ever forgets.

  14. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prismatic
    I think you are taking things a bit out of context here. I sort of view that as a trade-off, for Soviet non-interference during China's invasion of Mongolia and Tibet. And whoever says Moscow is weak? Definitely, their economy is in shambles, but when you are a nuclear power, there's no such thing as being weak. And China is still very much reliant on Russian technologies in a lot of things, for example of particular interest recently, space travel and fighter planes.

    I don't think I'm a China threat theorist. But the fact is, there are countries that do view China as a threat at present. And as I said, China may not be making efforts in regaining the ceded land now. But what's to ensure that they WILL NOT in future? Countries don't make decisions simply because of present events, they make decisions that will ensure the progress of their national interest in the future.
    And whats to ensure that Japan will not make a second attempt on their "Great East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere" plan? As for Soviet's non-interference, I think u have gotten your facts wrong here. Mongolia was granted independence by the Chinese in 1945 after a referendum was held. Tibet was invaded by the Chinese during the Qing dynasty. So where is the trade off??
    When I do right, no one remembers. When I do wrong, no one ever forgets.

  15. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by LazerLordz
    I recall seeing the smile on the face of an old man after the war.I recall seeing the world rejoice after another authoritarian dictator was toppled.Democracy and accountability is an inevitable process.
    You mean you can simply invade a country in the name of democracy? Talking about authoritarian rule, why are the Americans not doing anything to Burma? Or should I say Myanmar? For democracy?? For the oil, I suppose...
    When I do right, no one remembers. When I do wrong, no one ever forgets.

  16. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by spindoctor
    Lets see now....Saddam used chemical weapons on the Iraqis. Well so did the Americans:

    U.S. used banned weapons in Fallujah Health ministry

    http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/new...ervice_id=7216

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english...ent_422083.htm

    "He said that researches, prepared by his medical team, prove that U.S. occupation forces used internationally prohibited substances, including mustard gas, nerve gas, and other burning chemicals in their attacks in the war-torn city."

    Summary executions?

    Marines Killed Four Wounded Iraqi Prisoners: US Reporter

    http://www.islamonline.net/English/N...rticle01.shtml

    Yes Iraqis get to vote but the Americans are building a string of military bases there as well as the biggest US embassy in the world. Do you think any elected Iraqi government can act freely without considering whether their actions will please or displease the Americans?
    of cos...it takes a small evil to remove a greater one. the price of freedom.
    Last edited by zaren; 26th March 2005 at 01:05 AM.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by GDSNP
    You mean you can simply invade a country in the name of democracy? Talking about authoritarian rule, why are the Americans not doing anything to Burma? Or should I say Myanmar? For democracy?? For the oil, I suppose...
    it's very obvious , right...
    oil oil oil

  18. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by GDSNP
    You mean you can simply invade a country in the name of democracy? Talking about authoritarian rule, why are the Americans not doing anything to Burma? Or should I say Myanmar? For democracy?? For the oil, I suppose...
    slowly lah....liberate one country at a time. just like u photograph one subject at a time.

  19. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by therat
    it's very obvious , right...
    oil oil oil
    not that obvious lah....there's also terrorism.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaren
    not that obvious lah....there's also terrorism.
    An invasion is not gonna stop terrorism, infact it has gotten worse!

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