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Thread: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

  1. #61

    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by kklee View Post
    Nope.
    Confirmed not you?

    People like TS bring down the photography industry.

    Photographers who responds to such ads are even worst.
    WTB Manfrotto RC4 L Bracket

  2. #62

    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    kklee, just look at the TS's requirement and the sample photo he posted, can anyone say that base on the sample photo TS is not looking for more than $2/- standard? or is it your opinion that the sample photo is worth only $2/-?
    I won't be able to answer you because I see the request not based on cost.

    For discussion purposes, let's say each shot one charges $1.99, for 140 shots, that will be about $278.60.
    And let's say, the service just need a day, over 52 weeks of 5 days work week, one will make about $72,436 p.a.

    In your opinion, if it is not $2, how much should be charged per shot ?

  3. #63

    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by sjackal View Post
    Confirmed not you? I wanted to put "No" but the forum software don't accept it. Maybe the "Nope" is confusing. Nevertheless, I don't know how to answer this question.

    People like TS bring down the photography industry. The least is that the TS is upfront about it which is better then some of the sellers in B&S that the buyer highlighted. I think this thread needs to be approved ?

    Photographers who responds to such ads are even worst. I hope this is your opinion.
    .....

  4. #64

    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by wakaowalao View Post
    And judging from your replies in this thread, you sounds like you know quite well about TS actual requirements and most probably you are the one who took up this pathetic job. Good luck.
    So most probably i have become the person to take up this pathetic job - so what does that makes me ?

  5. #65

    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by wakaowalao View Post
    And you are absolutely sure that he won't?
    This is not a goondus world, it's people like TS that makes it so - FACE it.
    You should really be directly the question to the person who thinks probably I am the one who takes up that pathetic job - he seems to sure that the TS would.
    I hope you're not calling the TS names.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by sjackal View Post
    Confirmed not you?

    People like TS bring down the photography industry.

    Photographers who responds to such ads are even worst.
    Quote Originally Posted by kklee View Post
    I hope this is your opinion.
    It's definitely ALSO MY opinion too.
    Last edited by wakaowalao; 13th February 2013 at 05:30 PM.
    Inferiority Complex Behavior Signature: A900.D3x.M9..I have this and that blah blah...

  7. #67

    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by kklee View Post
    So most probably i have become the person to take up this pathetic job - so what does that makes me ?
    Nothing. Just NOTHING.


    Quote Originally Posted by kklee View Post
    You should really be directly the question to the person who thinks probably I am the one who takes up that pathetic job - he seems to sure that the TS would.
    I hope you're not calling the TS names.
    Nope, I am only saluting TS as master who is looking for goondus here.
    Inferiority Complex Behavior Signature: A900.D3x.M9..I have this and that blah blah...

  8. #68

    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by wakaowalao View Post
    Nope, I am only saluting TS as master who is looking for goondus here.
    Oops... I think the TS found someone. Let's hope he is not from here.

  9. #69
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by kklee View Post
    I won't be able to answer you because I see the request not based on cost.

    For discussion purposes, let's say each shot one charges $1.99, for 140 shots, that will be about $278.60.
    And let's say, the service just need a day, over 52 weeks of 5 days work week, one will make about $72,436 p.a.

    In your opinion, if it is not $2, how much should be charged per shot ?
    I can see you have zero knowledge of what is the life a working photographer be, and zero knowledge of what is product photography

    most working photographers will spend less than 10% of their time shooting an assignment, most of us spending more than 80% of our working hours managing a business, finding jobs, securing assignments, planing a shoot, post production.
    and clients/customers only pay us for the time we are shooting.


    for product photography, we spend lot of time clearing up the products and background, set up the shots, the most simple part is just clicking the shutter, and usually we will a lot of our time clearing up the shots ONE BY ONE, ONE INCH by ONE INCH with photoshop, and you totally have no idea than how much dust show up on a black background, even you think you have already done a very good job cleaning up the products and background. Sadly there is no such software can clean up dust automatically, of course you can send it to retouchers base in India to retouch it, but they will charge many times more than $1.99, and it is in USD some more.
    and I have not talk about how to light up shiny objects yet, that need a lots of skills and experiences, things that you won't find that in Youtube.


    so, for that $278.60, could be your earning for the whole week labours, provided no single shots get rejected by the client, and you don't have to reshot or rework on photoshop.



    You can tell us now, if you doing this as side line, or a student, do you have so much free time to take up such assignments?
    and if you run this as fully time business, how much sale you expect to make in a week to keep you alive?
    Last edited by catchlights; 13th February 2013 at 05:53 PM.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  10. #70

    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by kklee View Post
    Different strokes for different folks.
    I don't see why the love of photography needs a standard.
    I can don't like self assignment and don't like taking home objects.

    I may have mis-interpreted, but I am quite sure the TS does not want "how do you make common place object look better than they are; make it dramatic have impact".
    If that is that case then you have totally missed the boat on product photography in particular and most forms as well. If it was just documentary work, ah khong with a hand photo could do the job (aka camera man or mobile xerox person). That is exactly what TS wants - he is just not saying it to you directly. Ken Seet shot in B&W film in his early days and some of his subjects were forks in his mum's stainless steel kitchen sink.... wonderful stuff; passion for the craft drove him to shoot first and brush teeth latter.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by kklee View Post
    I wanted to put "No" but the forum software don't accept it. Maybe the "Nope" is confusing. Nevertheless, I don't know how to answer this question.

    The least is that the TS is upfront about it which is better then some of the sellers in B&S that the buyer highlighted. I think this thread needs to be approved ?

    I hope this is your opinion.
    ...

    and this folks is the reason why there will always be threads like this.

  12. #72

    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    I can see you have zero knowledge of what is the life a working photographer be, and zero knowledge of what is product photography

    most working photographers will spend less than 10% of their time shooting an assignment, most of us spending more than 80% of our working hours managing a business, finding jobs, securing assignments, planing a shoot, post production.
    and clients/customers only pay us for the time we are shooting.


    for product photography, we spend lot of time clearing up the products and background, set up the shots, the most simple part is just clicking the shutter, and usually we will a lot of our time clearing up the shots ONE BY ONE, ONE INCH by ONE INCH with photoshop, and you totally have no idea than how much dust show up on a black background, even you think you have already done a very good job cleaning up the products and background. Sadly there is no such software can clean up dust automatically, of course you can send it to retouchers base in India to retouch it, but they will charge many times more than $1.99, and it is in USD some more.
    and I have not talk about how to light up shiny objects yet, that need a lots of skills and experiences, things that you won't find that in Youtube.


    so, for that $278.60, could be your earning for the whole week labours, provided no single shots get rejected by the client, and you don't have to reshot or rework on photoshop.



    You can tell us now, if you doing this as side line, or a student, do you have so much free time to take such assignments?
    and if you run this as fully time business, how much sale you expect to make in a week to keep you alive?
    Different strokes for different folks.
    While it is not economically viable for you, let's hope that it is good enough for the photographer that the TS found, up to mark or not.

    I think maybe I really have zero knowledge on product photography.
    Let me go re-read those (estimated) 229 or so photography books to get more insights.
    I hope to find out how they did it the last time without Photoshop.

    BTW, how much do you think each shot is to be charged or is it POA ?

    For the 2nd last question, if I really wanted to, I would have.
    For the last question, it doesn't apply to me.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by eleveninth View Post
    ...

    and this folks is the reason why there will always be threads like this.
    Good or bad?

  14. #74
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by wakaowalao View Post
    Bloody rubbish!! You are so damn sure this ultimate cheapo ass-TS will only ask for a $2 standard??? He can jolly kiss-my-ass. WTH.
    Quote Originally Posted by kklee View Post
    Can you be absolutely sure that he will differ ?
    This is not an ideal world, people makes it complicated - manage it.
    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    kklee, just look at the TS's requirement and the sample photo he posted, can anyone say that base on the sample photo TS is not looking for more than $2/- standard? or is it your opinion that the sample photo is worth only $2/-?
    Quote Originally Posted by kklee View Post
    I won't be able to answer you because I see the request not based on cost.

    For discussion purposes, let's say each shot one charges $1.99, for 140 shots, that will be about $278.60.
    And let's say, the service just need a day, over 52 weeks of 5 days work week, one will make about $72,436 p.a.

    In your opinion, if it is not $2, how much should be charged per shot ?


    Let's not change the subject. My reply is base on your post that the TS may not be expecting more than $2/- standard for each shot, that is why I point you to TS's post of $2/shot with the sample photo and ask if in your opinion the sample is only worth $2/-, please see the trial of post above. Nothing complicated, just a straight forward question, base on TS's post asking for $2/shot with the sample photo, do you think if the smaple photo is worth just $2/-?
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  15. #75

    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by ellery View Post
    If that is that case then you have totally missed the boat on product photography in particular and most forms as well. If it was just documentary work, ah khong with a hand photo could do the job (aka camera man or mobile xerox person). That is exactly what TS wants - he is just not saying it to you directly. Ken Seet shot in B&W film in his early days and some of his subjects were forks in his mum's stainless steel kitchen sink.... wonderful stuff; passion for the craft drove him to shoot first and brush teeth latter.
    What you said the TS wants, is it OK?

  16. #76

    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by kklee View Post
    I won't be able to answer you because I see the request not based on cost.

    For discussion purposes, let's say each shot one charges $1.99, for 140 shots, that will be about $278.60.
    And let's say, the service just need a day, over 52 weeks of 5 days work week, one will make about $72,436 p.a.

    In your opinion, if it is not $2, how much should be charged per shot ?
    OMG?? With this "equation" coming out from you after all the discussion, I think everyone should just leave you alone in your perfect dreamworld.
    Inferiority Complex Behavior Signature: A900.D3x.M9..I have this and that blah blah...

  17. #77

    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    Let's not change the subject. My reply is base on your post that the TS may not be expecting more than $2/- standard for each shot, that is why I point you to TS's post of $2/shot with the sample photo and ask if in your opinion the sample is only worth $2/-, please see the trial of post above. Nothing complicated, just a straight forward question, base on TS's post asking for $2/shot with the sample photo, do you think if the smaple photo is worth just $2/-?
    I cut and paste my answer for you again in case you missed it.

    "I won't be able to answer you because I see the request not based on cost."

  18. #78

    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by wakaowalao View Post
    OMG?? With this "equation" coming out from you after all the discussion, I think everyone should just leave you alone in your perfect dreamworld.
    Ideally, yeah. So far, still no one answer how much to charge but already got someone take up the offer.

    Is is just like buying HDB, 30-years loan, no problem. It is as perfect as that.
    Last edited by kklee; 13th February 2013 at 06:38 PM.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by kklee View Post
    Ideally, yeah. So far, still no one answer how much to charge but already got someone take up the offer.

    Is is just like buying HDB, 30-years loan, no problem. It is as perfect as that.
    Inferiority Complex Behavior Signature: A900.D3x.M9..I have this and that blah blah...

  20. #80
    Senior Member
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Cufflinks Shoot - Please read the requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by kklee View Post
    I won't be able to answer you because I see the request not based on cost.

    For discussion purposes, let's say each shot one charges $1.99, for 140 shots, that will be about $278.60.
    And let's say, the service just need a day, over 52 weeks of 5 days work week, one will make about $72,436 p.a.

    In your opinion, if it is not $2, how much should be charged per shot ?
    Quote Originally Posted by kklee View Post
    I won't be able to answer you because I see the request not based on cost.

    For discussion purposes, let's say each shot one charges $1.99, for 140 shots, that will be about $278.60.
    And let's say, the service just need a day, over 52 weeks of 5 days work week, one will make about $72,436 p.a.

    In your opinion, if it is not $2, how much should be charged per shot ?
    OK, let's just base it on what you have posted above:
    $1.99 per shot
    140 shots
    Total $278.60
    1 day shoot
    5 days week
    52 weeks a year
    Grand Total of $72,436 per year

    Sounds fair and straight forward, but:
    I don't think you can complete all the shots in one day, so your logic of 1 day shoot is out
    I don't think TS is offering the same number of shots @ $2/- everyday nor is there so many 140 shots @ $2/-each to shoot everyday, so your logic of 5 days a week is out
    I don't think you can base it on 52 weeks since you can'r even fill up 1 week, so your logic of 52 weeks a year is out
    Since there is no 140 shots @ $2/shot everyday, no 5 days a week of $278.60/day and no 52 weeks of fully book shoots everyday, so your logic of $72,436/year is also out.
    Seems logical to you?
    And we have not even touch on post production, overhead cost, marketing to get 140 shots at $2/- everyday, etc .........


    Quote Originally Posted by kklee View Post
    This is not an ideal world, people makes it complicated - manage it.
    Yes you are right, it is not an ideal world, people makes it complicated, especially when they simplify it too thinly, so what do we do? We explain, we share from personal experience and we try to manage it.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

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