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Thread: Exploitation....

  1. #21
    Senior Member scud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phildate
    I found myself in a very similar position this week. The offer of "you'll get free dinner" is quite insulting as you know very well that you will be taking photos and will not have time to eat it anyway. My retort was to tell them that I would do it this time (on some conditions) but next year they'd better build in $500 budget for photographer.

    To compromise this year, I will set-up mini studio and take formal portraits as people enter (it's a Bollywood theme and people will want to have a good picture to remember the event and the effort they went to in dressing up) and during the evening as well as typical D&D event shots. That way I can make money on the portraits and sell the CD of the rest of the evening for a nominal sum. Should make enough money that way to make it worth my while.

    Maybe you could think of way of making money from this indirectly rather than being paid up front?
    if you need a partner for this year event, let me know..

  2. #22
    Senior Member jOhO's Avatar
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    i think it's best not to let your company know that you have good equipment/skill in photography.

    cos then they will ask u to do free, and if u say gotta charge, they will think you are moonlighting as a freelancer (and some big companies prohibit that, check out your letter of appointment)

    for me it's a totally different ball game. it's a small company, (less than 10 staff) and my boss loves and approves of my work, and let's me take leave when i have to shoot weddings. (usually give him one month's notice!)

    so if he wanted me to help him shoot our products or just some stuff work related, i'd be glad to do it for him. but no d&d's or big events for 10 staff lar of course!

    good luck figuring this out...

  3. #23
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    I think it's a big mistake to let the company or friends know you are into photography.

    I also kenna but not in a big way. So far I've only shot 4 awards won by our company FOC. Lucky that our company doesn't win award every month.

  4. #24

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    I juz kenna the same situation today. Was at this meeting discussing about an event when colleagues who know I'm into photography volunteered my service (no warning!)

    Immediately I turned her down. And you know what, my company has a paid photogapher i.e he is hired as a photographer and they don't even want to ask him first.

    Another previous incident, they tried to use top management to pressurize me when I refuse. And I am still a newbie in photography!

  5. #25

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    Bottom Line is: Just don't let your company know you are into photography.

  6. #26
    Senior Member scud's Avatar
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    well, it is hard to say NO to directors. but we managed to say NO.
    long story cut short, they managed to find a main photog.
    we will be there as backup's backup (maybe want us to showface ) ....
    *we still thinking why need backup's backup*.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by scud
    well, it is hard to say NO to directors. but we managed to say NO.
    long story cut short, they managed to find a main photog.
    we will be there as backup's backup (maybe want us to showface ) ....
    *we still thinking why need backup's backup*.
    good job

    can don't bring cam?

  8. #28
    Senior Member scud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmacs
    good job

    can don't bring cam?
    definately not bringing.

  9. #29
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    All this talk reminds me of NS days...pain in the ass.There were some I would help shoot, and there were many I just fibbed off.

    Imagine they come up to you and say, since you have a prosumer, why don't you be the photographer.Then I tell them , if you can take the risk that the photos are not SLR quality, so be it.But of course I only did it for those guys that are worth the time.
    We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities. - Oscar Wilde

  10. #30
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Maybe let you company know you have a manual 35 mm film camera with a 50mm lens, no flash, see they still want you to shoot or not?

  11. #31
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    FYI, there is a clause in the Employment Act that states you have the right to reject any job not stated in your contract.

    But then, that's only theory. And theory doesn't always go in real life situation, I know.
    Then why the h$LL are we studying so hard for???

  12. #32
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Happen to me. Big boss requested me to take photos for

    1) "testing m/c". I took.
    2) next he ask me to take the production, I took.
    3 than he push the envolope too far by requesting me to take some other stuff. I rejected. Politely telling him I do take product photo outside, but I charge them. For company, I dont mind not making profit, but they have to pay for my eqpt. as I nedd $$ to maintain them. He was not very please. I told him to put himself in my shoe and left him to think. from there on, he stop asking me to take photos.
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  13. #33
    Senior Member scud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poledra
    Then why the h$LL are we studying so hard for???
    to come out with the exployment act lor

    dk, yes it is true, there will be more to come if we agree to the 1st time.
    glad that u r able to put a full stop to it.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    Maybe let you company know you have a manual 35 mm film camera with a 50mm lens, no flash, see they still want you to shoot or not?
    they probably wont know the diff. tell them only have $11 single-use fuji/kodak camera and they may still ask you to shoot

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by scud
    Exploitation!!

    hear me out.....
    my company event is around the corner and we were arrowed to be photographers during the 2 days event.
    arrowed was sent out thru email and cc to some directors.

    why i say it is exploitation?
    1. strictly speaking, it is not in our job scope to take photographs
    2. this will be 1st time, and i'm pretty sure there will be next time.... so this will not stop unless we resign from day job!
    3. company wide event, cannot be no budget rite?
    I've not been in this situation, however as a professional photographer I'm constantly being approached to do pro bono jobs for various organisations, most of which I refuse to do.

    However a few ideas that might appeal to you.

    1) Inform the people who volunteered you for the job that you'll be expecting time during work for scanning, processing of the negs or digital files, plus suitable software / hardware for the job, otherwise you'll get the work professionally scanned / worked on at a cost of XX dollars a frame.. (typical pro costs, $70~110 per image scan, $50~70 for digital image manipulation. Infom them that the time required is approx 1 work day per 36 images if it's film. That usually scares hell out of the boss.

    2) Let the organisation know that your standing charges are $20-40 per roll of film (plus cost of film, development etc) if using a genuine pro-grade DSLR or SLR to cover depreciation, equipement repair and offset the cost of gear replacement due to wear and tear.

    3) Don't use your rechargable batteries. Only use premium grade alkalines and let them know how many dozen you will need

    4) Inform the boss that you will need extra special "expensive" pro grade film, which unfortunately is only available across the other side of Singapore, so you'll need time off work to go get it, as well as travel expenses, and oh, the lab that does the best job is located over there, so guess what? you'll need two extra sets of time off to drop off the work and pick it up.

    5) Work out a dream list of lighting gear you'll need, give the boss the list and the hire costs ...

    If you're creative you can inflate the costs to the point that there is no way they'll take you on for the job.
    The Ang Moh from Hell
    Professional Photography - many are called, few are chosen!

  16. #36
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    Ian, that's good stuff, will try it out next time, hafta save this page as PDF

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by scud
    Exploitation!!
    1. strictly speaking, it is not in our job scope to take photographs
    Does your employer tolerate occasional use of workplace facilities or company time for private purposes (e.g. private email, web browsing, printing, phone calls)? S/he doesn't have to do that either...

    2. this will be 1st time, and i'm pretty sure there will be next time.... so this will not stop unless we resign from day job!
    Isn't it a good thing if your company recognizes your talent? When the going gets tough, who will they lay off - the guy/gal who doesn't move a finger beyond what is written in the contract, or the one that shows some flexibility and is willing to go the extra mile when needed? What goes around comes around ...

    Helping out where necessary goes without saying in other countries and is considered good work attitude. No wonder Singapore needs foreign talent ...

    it this point, we do not want to do it.
    wanna hear from those who were in this situation before.
    thanks.
    If you don't want to do it, tell your boss and don't do it - but don't make up excuses.

    I voluntarily took photos in the past from company events, and I did my share in organizing and ensuring the smooth running of conferences when requested. I'm pretty sure my past bosses honoured it - I had a lot of freedom in doing my work, and even in tough budget situations, they always carved out funding for extending my contract.

  18. #38
    Senior Member benny's Avatar
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    Good comments from LittleWolf, especially the first point.

    If you feel compelled to do it, but feel strongly about equipment depreciation, you can always just offer services. Tell them that your third auntie's son borrow your camera for a trip or the camera is in the workshop. Service is free, but equipment rental is at S$X.

    Cheers,

  19. #39
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    I was in your situation once. Became a photographer for the company event. Following year they ask again. I said camera spoil. They insisted as they know I got a spare camera. I said ok. On the day took mc. Did not turn out for the event. No more request from them after that. It seems that it is now a trend for companies to ask their staff to take photos during company events. They can spend 10 - 20 thousand for the function but refuse to pay 400 or 500 for a photographer .

  20. #40
    Senior Member Hommie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf
    Does your employer tolerate occasional use of workplace facilities or company time for private purposes (e.g. private email, web browsing, printing, phone calls)? S/he doesn't have to do that either...
    You mean that my employer does not do that at all? If his/her spouse called up during office hour he/she would off the phone or not take it at all, is it?


    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf
    Isn't it a good thing if your company recognizes your talent? When the going gets tough, who will they lay off - the guy/gal who doesn't move a finger beyond what is written in the contract, or the one that shows some flexibility and is willing to go the extra mile when needed? What goes around comes around ...

    Helping out where necessary goes without saying in other countries and is considered good work attitude. No wonder Singapore needs foreign talent ...
    I dunno, from where foreign talents came from, their union are strong, they are being protected by rules and laws, hence, the thread 'Exploitation'. We have neither. Btw which part of the world are you referring to or come from??



    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf
    If you don't want to do it, tell your boss and don't do it - but don't make up excuses.

    I voluntarily took photos in the past from company events, and I did my share in organizing and ensuring the smooth running of conferences when requested. I'm pretty sure my past bosses honoured it - I had a lot of freedom in doing my work, and even in tough budget situations, they always carved out funding for extending my contract.
    You obviously have not have jobs piled up skyhigh and when requested for extra jobs(like take photo during company event) are not given any time off or lesser workload on top of everything you have. You are lucky, your company appreciate the works you put in, a lot do not......

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