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  1. #21
    vince123123
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    what is "O$P$"?

    Quote Originally Posted by espn

    Somebody also once used the internal mass mail address to send O$P$ to the whole of the co. That's how bad it is. I give up on s/w houses already, esp those that survives on projects.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Arcanic~
    Wow, from the way u put it, ur office reminds me of my saf camp sia..
    underpaid overwork syndrome... kaoz

    and i tot only saf treats pp that way..
    Ho ho ho.. boy are you wrong...

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    what is "O$P$"?
    Owe money, pay money.

  3. #23
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    If you have bills to pay, and mouths to feed, quitting is just not the solution. I gues the best is to tolerate the "suffering" until one day, after cumulating all the courage and frustration, quit the company. All the companies I worked for, sucks in some way or another. Economy is damn bad, sometimes I wondered why the Govt said it's recovering (or recovered?). It's not easy to find a job that pay to your expectation and its working environment like a 2nd home. Sigh.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by eric69
    If you have bills to pay, and mouths to feed, quitting is just not the solution. I gues the best is to tolerate the "suffering" until one day, after cumulating all the courage and frustration, quit the company. All the companies I worked for, sucks in some way or another. Economy is damn bad, sometimes I wondered why the Govt said it's recovering (or recovered?). It's not easy to find a job that pay to your expectation and its working environment like a 2nd home. Sigh.
    I definitely have bills to pay, I still owe Nikon 10K on my equipment (j/k).

    Quitting is never a solution, it's an escape, frankly, I agree with you. Every company sucks, I pull myself to work on three conditions (any two must exists)
    - working relationship
    - $$ (salary)
    - job satisfaction

    There were all three, but slowly WR left, the boss become very egoistic & personal, everything you do that he don't like is against him, which is right about now... the funk.. I mean right now which he doesn't like me.

    $$ late, I'm not exactly lowly paid but not much complains, just hope the money can come in on time, esp the CPFs.

    No more job satisfaction, everything is a chore now, I just slug away to get things done, as long as things are done and produced, I no longer care how I get them done. I've lowered all my standards in order to survive. Really heck-care attitude.

    The market maybe has recovered, but the costs savings when the market was bad probably is good, so management decided that OT + work harder will make up for the missing manpower.

    You're right on unable to find a 2nd home, I found, but pity every body just leaves at the end of everything, we're just tools, tools that are to be thrown after using.

    IT job is like that in SG. In fact I think everywhere.

  5. #25
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    You're one of the most active Nikon salesman in CS, maybe they can hire you on as their marketing guy?

  6. #26

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    1. Change your job.
    2. Differentiate between interest and ability in your search.
    3. Determine if your complaints are reasonable. Late salaries is something I would deem as irresponsible.
    4. Take up more responsibilitites now while you can. You have nothing to loose, so might as well use the opportunity to learn something e.g. in a supervisory or management capacity that will normally provide you with the opportunity to widen your horizons. You can use this in your resume as well.
    5. Start to differentiate between your collegues, the good ones and the lazy ones. You may need the help of those who are good in future.
    6. Extend your skills to a different industry, one that has ample growth opportunites for growth e.g. banking, chemicals etc. Most people don't realise this as a way to increase their market value. This means you must take time to learn about the different industries, and an in depth idea of what these organisations or business groups in the different industries are trying to acheive.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    Ho ho ho.. boy are you wrong...
    haha, i know la... just living in denial thats all...
    at least u can still surf CS.
    Last edited by ~Arcanic~; 17th March 2005 at 02:25 PM.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Big Kahuna's Avatar
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    I know this sounds simple....but if I am in your shoe...I will not look back and go for a greener pasture if the passion is no longer there

    Ask yourself how long more can you endure in such environement? 3mths? 6mths? 1 yr? What happen after that? Even if you stick on.....will you foresee your employer wll recognise or appreciate your contributions? Seems unlikely the way you described? I guess you feel happier doing MO for us than going to work nowadays

    So why not look for a new employer? There are so much thing you can learn and achieve in the new enviroment given the dynamicness of todays' businesses.....and with the up trend of economy.....the chances are definately higher you will strike gold down the road...and you no longer need to tolerant about pay cut, no pay, late payment and crab anymore

    Base on what I read from your postings and comments on this forum so far......IMO you deserved something better than this

  9. #29
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    Hmm, guess it's a common scene in IT job... where your company will squeeze every bit of u with that little pay they give u. Cos i am in the same boat..

    Best choice is to find a new job. Be it IT or photography or other areas. Experiences is wat a person need, if you think the place couldn't let u attain anymore job satisfaction and the company dun recongise your hard work. It's time to TENDER!!!

  10. #30
    Senior Member poohbear's Avatar
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    I think it's all back to the reality that it's still about the bread. Micheal brudder , if the salary part is what makes you hesitate to quit , i'll understand, coz i'm one of them too. Very often in singapore, people wouldn't enjoy their work all because of stress.... haiz ....

  11. #31
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    Wah seriously I think all software house are like that !!!.
    15 years ago it was like that and now I hear the same story again, it seems like it never will change. I have long ago give up on software house.
    I take it that not many will survive in a software house but usually take it as a stepping stone to learn and come in contact with various aspect of IT.
    If you are in a software house try looking for a job working for end users (the bigger ones who can pay of course) instead and put your knowledge into good use to benefit your employer. Now you will be at the other end talking to software house and know all the tricks.

  12. #32
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    that is why it is called work. and they have to pay you to go to the office and work.
    if you enjoy work, the management will start to get wise and call it play and you would have to pay to go to the office to play.

    I'd say go work for Nikon.

  13. #33

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    People of the world take reputation and gain too seriously so much so that both praise and insult will cause them to become agitated.

    Living a frightened existence because of the fear of disasters. Why?

    In the eyes of people, high station is considered noble; it makes them feel a cut above others. Therefore there is fear that losing it will bring distress.

    Insults are considered lowly. One feels ashamed when being insulted. So people are afraid of being insulted and humiliated.

    We have big troubles because we are always thinking in terms of self-interest.

    If you have no ego, will you suffer calamities?

    Thus if a person is selfless, the world may be entrusted to his care.

    Man must be unselfish and selfless. If man can put aside the thoughts of life and death, all insults and favours will not move him and fear will not exist.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    Every company sucks, I pull myself to work on three conditions (any two must exists)
    - working relationship
    - $$ (salary)
    - job satisfaction
    I know your pain but the only thing now is to bear with it until you can get out, preferably to a non-local company. Changing industries isn't really recommended unless you're really, really good in another field or really, really lucky.

    I used to work for a local software house too and after about two years of relative success, everything went downhill when the MD (I still believe it stands for Mad Dog) made a royal mass of a potentially lucrative tander. Of course every one else was to blame but him and the first to get it was the GM, who was his good friend. The GM quitely left but for the next 1.5 years I was with the company, the MD would badmouth him every other week and blame every problem we faced on him. Sheesh!

    After that, the place became hell. Sales dwindled (we can guess who really brought in the bacon), the MD became suspicious of everyone - he would listen in on our phone conversations on parallel lines, pay & CPF were late, staff left - his personal assistant and accountant left with a day's notice during audit and paid no compensation as we never got our 13th month.

    Moved to another local company whose executive director was a real forward looking person but whose younger brother and MD of the company (did I say I believed it stood for Mad Dog) was a skirt chasing, brain-dead, IT impaired, buffoon who almost bankrupt the multi-million dollar company.

    Well, after almost 20 years of hits and misses, I'm now with an MNC that happily fills the three conditions you mentioned and if there's one thing I learnt in all those years is that 90% of the management staff in local homegrown companies suck. I've been three years here and have yet to see any backstabbing, brown-nosing or finger-pointing. Everyone does their job and take responsibility for their actions.

    Still, if I could do it all over again, I would have stood my ground against my parents and went ahead with photo-journalism in Uni instead of being pushed into IT. Must remember not to push my kids into anything (except the swimming pool).

    Cheers and good luck.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by poohbear
    I think it's all back to the reality that it's still about the bread. Micheal brudder , if the salary part is what makes you hesitate to quit , i'll understand, coz i'm one of them too. Very often in singapore, people wouldn't enjoy their work all because of stress.... haiz ....
    Not to the extend of generalising, but I think it's not just Singapore alone, but the whole of Asia suffer the same problem .. Gererally, yellow-skinned humans in Asian society tend to have the same fate ...

  16. #36
    Senior Member jnet6's Avatar
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    So sad to hear this,
    mi also just started work for 4 months, then the "hidden" terms come out..
    will try to fight for it.. or leave the company...

    any1 got lobang for jobs???.... hehe

  17. #37

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    I would like to offer a piece of advice...... :P

    espn: seriously consider whether you want to go ahead and look for greener pastures. Once a company starts delaying salary payment (esp in your scenerio), there is a likelihood of future defaults. Understand the difficulty in finding jobs and would like to believe that the company will keep its promise in paying the future salaries on time.

    Ask around what are the help available regarding non-payment of salary. Do not let the salary accumulate. It's really your decision.

    why should listen to me? Lets just say I have come across many incidents like yours. *btw, I am not instigating anyone to quit!*

  18. #38

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    espn: yeap, there is no reason to stay. there is no company loyalty these days besides whats on your contract.

    look at it this way, if you stay on , you're wasting whatever time you could put towards a new company to build a career/work experience for promotion.

    when a company defaults on pay and demands mandatory overtime, its a loser company. I suggest you even talk to MOM about it, especially when being late with cpf payments. that fact that they can hire loser people on top of you that can't do anything at all means that they don't have a cash flow problem but just want to abuse/milk employees.

    in otherwords, if you stay you do yourself a disservice, there is no need to badmouth the company, just leave and that's that.

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by loupgarou
    espn: yeap, there is no reason to stay. there is no company loyalty these days besides whats on your contract.

    look at it this way, if you stay on , you're wasting whatever time you could put towards a new company to build a career/work experience for promotion.

    when a company defaults on pay and demands mandatory overtime, its a loser company. I suggest you even talk to MOM about it, especially when being late with cpf payments. that fact that they can hire loser people on top of you that can't do anything at all means that they don't have a cash flow problem but just want to abuse/milk employees.

    in otherwords, if you stay you do yourself a disservice, there is no need to badmouth the company, just leave and that's that.
    ESPN: Should you decide to leave, pls serve your notice and don't MIA.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terence
    You're one of the most active Nikon salesman in CS, maybe they can hire you on as their marketing guy?
    Terence, seriously, I think they'd prefer not to have anything to do with me. *nudge nudge you-know-who* Anyway, perhaps I should consider sales?



    Quote Originally Posted by Parchiao
    1. Change your job.
    2. Differentiate between interest and ability in your search.
    3. Determine if your complaints are reasonable. Late salaries is something I would deem as irresponsible.
    4. Take up more responsibilitites now while you can. You have nothing to loose, so might as well use the opportunity to learn something e.g. in a supervisory or management capacity that will normally provide you with the opportunity to widen your horizons. You can use this in your resume as well.
    5. Start to differentiate between your collegues, the good ones and the lazy ones. You may need the help of those who are good in future.
    6. Extend your skills to a different industry, one that has ample growth opportunites for growth e.g. banking, chemicals etc. Most people don't realise this as a way to increase their market value. This means you must take time to learn about the different industries, and an in depth idea of what these organisations or business groups in the different industries are trying to acheive.
    Hi Parchiao, this is my 4th job in 4 yrs. I'm on the look out definitely, but quite sick of the IT field, I think everywhere will be the same.

    My main interests were in IT, especially coding, I know it sounds crazy but I actually like coding, I liked to solve problems and overcome them, it makes me happy, but alas. The real world doesn't want problems solved, they just want them avoided. Thus my pain is built upon such unhealthy wants. Sad. Things just don't appear the way they should. No s/w house practices good coding practices. All just want chop chop.

    It's not that I don't want to take up responsibilities, but rather I refuse to be hung by the nose and led along as an empty shell like my current team lead. Has no power, everything he decides, does has to go through a higher PM. No increment in pay, no recognition in work. I think if I lead the current project as a PM, I'd have the project completed with 5 people in 1 year instead of 20 people in 1.5 yrs and the project is no where close completion.

    I agree on taking chances with my responsibilities and hope I can go far, but sadly, like I mentioned, when a tool is used, it's used. There's no place for used tools. No appreciation. Nothing.

    Now am thinking of moving to s/w support side, do less coding, routine a bit, at least I can see myself going home at 6.30pm or NUG without people kpkb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Kahuna
    I know this sounds simple....but if I am in your shoe...I will not look back and go for a greener pasture if the passion is no longer there

    Ask yourself how long more can you endure in such environement? 3mths? 6mths? 1 yr? What happen after that? Even if you stick on.....will you foresee your employer wll recognise or appreciate your contributions? Seems unlikely the way you described? I guess you feel happier doing MO for us than going to work nowadays

    So why not look for a new employer? There are so much thing you can learn and achieve in the new enviroment given the dynamicness of todays' businesses.....and with the up trend of economy.....the chances are definately higher you will strike gold down the road...and you no longer need to tolerant about pay cut, no pay, late payment and crab anymore

    Base on what I read from your postings and comments on this forum so far......IMO you deserved something better than this
    Frankly, the pay thingie has started way back in Sept. I've endured all these while because of my ex-ex-team lead and ex-team mates. They were the ones to keep me going, but one by one left dejected with the coy. Boss became personal, everything is against him. Definitely doesn't appreciate smart people, had a friend who joined, definitely smart, but too smart, boss didn't like him eventually and he left within 5 months. How to work? Right now even if I work 9am-9pm everyday, I doubt he'd pat me on the back and say good work.

    How I work is very simple.. just treat me good, I will put in more if not better effort to repay you. He doesn't even say HI to me when walking past me. Even when I walk into the coy or pass the cleaning lady, when she sees me, she makes an effort to say good morning or pass a casual remark to me.

    Why do you think I spend so much time online? I need to get away from work, from life and from my boss. It's not a solution but it keeps my mind from wondering.

    Now I'm just wondering when will my this month's pay come...

    And ya, it was fun helping out at the IT Show even though I was not paid, it's fun doing MOs as I meet people and share what I know on photography with them. It's definitely more fun than IT.

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