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Thread: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

  1. #141
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    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    Pay peanuts, get a monkey, pay properly get a photographer. Lowballers like this should be avoided at all costs by everyone. Any person who takes on a job like this is a jackass, not a photographer, they aren't fit to the lick the boots of a happy-snapper let alone a serious photographer or a real pro.

    The rest of my views are not printable in a forum due to the amount of colourful invectives I'd use.
    The Ang Moh from Hell
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  2. #142

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Im still curious.
    After so much debate & argument, so.....what should be the right charges for this shangrila event?
    Event is over by now.
    Any update?
    Happy ending or total disaster?

  3. #143
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    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by otaru73 View Post
    Im still curious.
    After so much debate & argument, so.....what should be the right charges for this shangrila event?
    Event is over by now.
    Any update?
    Happy ending or total disaster?
    everyone expectation of earning is different,
    cost of living is different,
    spending habit is also different,
    the set up of business is different,
    skills also different
    workflow also different
    deliverable products is also different,


    so each photographer have to find out what are their own expenses, expecting earning and work out their own rate, you can't simply cut and paste other people price list to use as your own, it may not suit you.

    Here is a calculator you can use to find out how much is your day rate, https://nppa.org/calculator
    work out your own cost is a process, you need to fine tune it as you go along, reviewing them on a regular basis, like 6 months or yearly to keep up with the present economy situation.



    as for the outcome for that event?


    I guess nobody will bother,
    when people have a mindset of photography don't worth any money, they won't change,
    if can get it for cheap and free, than will go for it.
    if can't not find, then just forget it, they don't really need it anyway.


    the change only take place when people start to have emotion connection with the photos, which can not be measure by money,
    "how many hours of coverage", "how many photos", "how big is the photos" are just secondary.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  4. #144

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    everyone expectation of earning is different,
    cost of living is different,
    spending habit is also different,
    the set up of business is different,
    skills also different
    workflow also different
    deliverable products is also different,


    so each photographer have to find out what are their own expenses, expecting earning and work out their own rate, you can't simply cut and paste other people price list to use as your own, it may not suit you.

    Here is a calculator you can use to find out how much is your day rate, https://nppa.org/calculator
    work out your own cost is a process, you need to fine tune it as you go along, reviewing them on a regular basis, like 6 months or yearly to keep up with the present economy situation.



    as for the outcome for that event?


    I guess nobody will bother,
    when people have a mindset of photography don't worth any money, they won't change,
    if can get it for cheap and free, than will go for it.
    if can't not find, then just forget it, they don't really need it anyway.


    the change only take place when people start to have emotion connection with the photos, which can not be measure by money,
    "how many hours of coverage", "how many photos", "how big is the photos" are just secondary.
    Wah so chim bro...

  5. #145
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    Wah so chim bro...
    so many people don't want to work out their own sum,
    just copy and paste from another photographer's sites,
    look like saving all the headache and trouble hor right?

    but in the end, all went down together,
    so who's fault is this leh?
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  6. #146

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    so many people don't want to work out their own sum,
    just copy and paste from another photographer's sites,
    look like saving all the headache and trouble hor right?

    but in the end, all went down together,
    so who's fault is this leh?
    Those simply copy and paste just asking for trouble.

    Don't think they will drag others down with them. Think they will fail before everyone is.

    If business is good, the only way to stay good is to keep moving forward. Not from greed perspective because if you don't keep moving forward, you will fall behind very quickly, because everyone want to do better.

    It is more and more challenging to run a business of photography especially for someone who starting from zero. There isn't a barrier, there isn't a guideline, there isn't much information to educate the clients.

    So hor, if want to survive, must think more, do more and spend less.

    Regards,

    Hart

  7. #147

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    quote from zack blog

    Photographers look bad by doing a number of things. They also look great doing a number of things. You can tit for tat this crap all day long.

    Don’t worry about them. Keep your head down. Do great work. Find your market. Keep your expenses as low as you can. Hold this career with an open hand because it will come and it will go.

    Cheers,
    Zack


    http://zarias.tumblr.com/post/635988...-facebook-that

  8. #148
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    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    you may see these budget photographer as spoiling the market rate, but again they may be just earning for a living. Peace

  9. #149

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Well said! Cactlight!!
    Having read the thread, i must said: what we said & what we do is depending on what is our situation at that presence moment.
    There is no right or wrong depending which side u stand.

    Im not a hardcore photographer & never make a cent out of photography.
    However i believe in chances.
    Everyone have a right to start from some where.
    If intention to charge at budget for experience,....well i support
    If main objective is to undercut, then ive no. Choice but to condemn.
    My take on the whole episode

  10. #150
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    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    I do see some positive from all these emergence of new photographers..

    Imagine if there used to be just 10% of CMI photographers out there and theres now 50%..
    Clients will be attracted by the low prices offered and rightly so. But it also means there is now higher chances for them to hire the 'wrong' pg who failed to deliver.

    Question to ask is then as always, WHY do you deserve to charge the higher rates? Are you that much better?

  11. #151

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by saberlancer View Post

    Question to ask is then as always, WHY do you deserve to charge the higher rates? Are you that much better?
    If you are in photography business long enough, it isn't about how good you are with your skillset to charge higher, it is about how to find clients who pay at your rates. Of course skillset makes things a lot easier.

  12. #152
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saberlancer View Post
    I do see some positive from all these emergence of new photographers..

    Imagine if there used to be just 10% of CMI photographers out there and theres now 50%..
    Clients will be attracted by the low prices offered and rightly so. But it also means there is now higher chances for them to hire the 'wrong' pg who failed to deliver.

    Question to ask is then as always, WHY do you deserve to charge the higher rates? Are you that much better?
    You are making a living, don't you expect you have some salary rise every year? Even any ordinary workers also hope they have pay increament and bonus. Why can't photographers charge what they think deserve?
    Anyway, you charge what you think you deserve it, if anyone think you are too ex, they are just not your customers, you can't make everyone be your customers, and you don't have to also.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  13. #153

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    I think it's an open market. Many full-time photographers are not able to accept it because it affects their livelihood. I've known a good friend who seemed to be doing well in his business as a photographer. Was shocked after 2 years later, I met him and he said he's no longer doing it. He has reasonably above-average skills, did his business well. Reason he quit: Too competitive market.

    My view is, today, it's not difficult to pick up photography and be good at it. But of course, to be exceptional, that's different. But you don't have to be exceptional to be a paid photographer. Practically, almost everyone owns a digital camera.

    Long gone are the days where you see mainly guys into photography with their technical knowledge of turning knobs on the camera or taking meter readings even for simple scenes to photograph.

    It's just like computers. 30 years ago, if you tell people you own a computer at home and you know how to do programming, you will have WOOAAA, as a response. Today, if a primary school kid can do programming, it's no big deal.

    I think that's how photography has progressed. It's for the better in my opinion. But for the full-timers, it remains a constant threat to their livelihood. It's also less of a respect as a profession compared to many years ago. Unless you are outstanding.
    Last edited by kiwi2; 1st November 2013 at 09:08 AM.

  14. #154
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Go and join trade associations, to learn from the pros if you want to make this as a living.
    Else you prepare to sell durian when you find no customers even you charge dirt cheap price.
    No one is responsible for your well being except you.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  15. #155
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    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    remember there was a time everybody is selling bubble tea?
    many people think there is a quick way to make money, so easy to set up a shop, there even have companies to supply all you needs, even provide you with the training, we can ten twenty shops selling bubble tea in a shopping mall, in every corners in our neighborhood.
    but soon, the supply is far more then the demands, every shops try to survive by slash their price, but this will not help, their hurting their own business, they can't make any profits, but losing money, so the shop close down one by one.
    can we still find bubble tea shops, Yes,
    can we find cheap bubble tea shops, yes,
    can we find expensive bubble tea shops, yes.
    if I ask you a brand of bubble tea shop now, and please tell me which one you can remember better?

    and a very interesting thing I notice, the KOI shops seem to have a lot of customers and I see a long queue every time I pass by one of their shops.

    so we can learn a lesson or two from here,
    tho the demands is here, but we can't give unlimited supply.
    only the strongest will survive, so you need to make a healthy profit to keep your business on going,
    lower your selling price will not always help your business,
    customers are not always look for the cheapest thing, you need to find out what they really want.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  16. #156
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    so back in photography business, there are some type of shoots, you won't able to make a decent profit,

    blogshop shot is one very good example, blogshop owners will tell you they have little budget, that is how the way they work.
    So what are you going to do? by shooting 1000 products every week, touching up these images day and night?
    if this is what you want, then just do it and don't complaint.

    if not, find other type of shots you can make a profit you prefer.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  17. #157

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    In short, to do well though not easy but achievable.

    Just need a good business sense and good products.

    Regards,

    Hart

  18. #158

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Recently got a call from an local attraction site owned by one of our big powers. Saying they need wedding photos of couples on their location to revamp their website. Maybe some of you may had received the same call. They offered to give photo credit. Upon hearing this I know they are looking for free, so I politely told them to fark off. Curious, I googled and saw on news that they recently spend more than $40Million to revamp their premise. But not willing to spend few hundred dollars photos to buy a photo license?

    Recently received a request from an 5 star international hotel chain for a commercial job. The project would estimate to occupy me 5 weeks of extensive traveling fatigue and lost of local opportunites. Quoted them $15000 excluding travel and accommo. They replied other photographers are doing it for the chance to travel and stay in their hotel. Told them politely to fark off. If I want a holiday, I'll get my own, and this is work, not holiday.

    This is the fact of our current state of industry. While we try our best to save it and educate amatuer photographers, I secretly know myself it is a sunset industry. We who started many years ago are not worried. The business can still be maintained and as we go older we invest into areas out of photography. But new and upcoming full time photographers, it does not bode well for you all.

    And the thread title "What do you think about being a Budget photographer?"

    Just look at our budget photographers right here on clubsnap. 3 years ago their price is as such, 3 years later right now, price still about the same. You can search their threads its right there. 3 years already still no progress. You wanna be like them? I don't want. This is what I think.
    Last edited by JasonB; 1st November 2013 at 11:52 AM.

  19. #159

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    so back in photography business, there are some type of shoots, you won't able to make a decent profit,

    blogshop shot is one very good example, blogshop owners will tell you they have little budget, that is how the way they work.
    So what are you going to do? by shooting 1000 products every week, touching up these images day and night?
    if this is what you want, then just do it and don't complaint.

    if not, find other type of shots you can make a profit you prefer.
    Think now not only blogshop owner, others too, wedding, company/event planner etc also will use words like "budget, simple event/celebration" etc. There are few times some wed couple will said they only going to have a simple wedding ceremony (which hidden meaning is they want a cheap photography rate). But feel that even if they just going to have a very simple ceremony, eg only signing of paper etc, but that doesn't mean a photographer work will be much simpler just because the it a simple ceremony. The amount of time & work spend by the photographer isn't going to be very much lesser.

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post

    If you are in photography business long enough, it isn't about how good you are with your skillset to charge higher, it is about how to find clients who pay at your rates. Of course skillset makes things a lot easier.
    Yes I agree, i wasnt talking abt photography skills bt as a package including after sales, marketing etc.

    Actually even the body language and confidence a pg displays when shooting plays a role..lol

    Its a service oriented job after all..
    Last edited by saberlancer; 1st November 2013 at 02:59 PM.

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