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Thread: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

  1. #81

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by OoStarDustoO View Post
    But the problem is here to stay, so face it.
    Yes, facing the problem and addressing it is exactly what this thread is doing - educating photographers entering the professional line how not to loss money, waste time or burn out.

    A percentage of hobbyists taking assignments for fun or passion may eventually want to do it for a living, and such threads will be here for references. IMHO.
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  2. #82

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by sjackal View Post
    Yes, facing the problem and addressing it is exactly what this thread is doing - educating photographers entering the professional line how not to loss money, waste time or burn out.

    A percentage of hobbyists taking assignments for fun or passion may eventually want to do it for a living, and such threads will be here for references. IMHO.
    It's gonna be an uphill task but all the best for educating!!!!

    Imagine convincing a foreign worker taking up a hawker stall assistant job to not accept work for $750.00 but $1200.00 instead because Singaporean got paid $1200.00

    But the foreign worker is VERY WILLING to work for $750 despite people explaining the transport cost, inflation, extra working hour and all other factors.

    But then again, i believe all these knowledge are very important for those who are looking at being a professional photographer.

    Definitely precious info to ensure we know what kind of cost is involved for a full-time photographer.
    Last edited by OoStarDustoO; 17th January 2013 at 06:53 PM.

  3. #83

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    free lancer if took a paid job is consider a business.

    it looking to be a full time, must know the direction, meaning starting by not doing any thing you do not like. focus on the main you prefer... slowly and steady and of course attend more courses if can, observe how people work.... create ur own work flow.
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  4. #84

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by OoStarDustoO View Post
    Sorry dude, the title of this sections says "Discussions on the business aspects of photography - weddings, events, freelancing and others."

    Hobbyist taking up assignment is considered as freelancing.

    Don't blame you for not looking from a hobbyist point of view, and never expect to, like how i never expect a Singaporean construction working to understand a foreign worker's plight for stealing their job at dirt cheap pay.

    But the problem is here to stay, so face it.
    Hahaha... yes, yes, Actually as a business, I am glad for people who charge dirt cheap yet proudly announce to the world that they got a "PAID ASSIGNMENT"... this actually do those who want to be a full time a service. Why? because, those are not serious and in hobbyist arena, will never understand that they are killing each other, while those know and understand do their business strategies right and move away from it.

    On the second thought, I should be thankful for people who charge dirt cheap and that muddy water drown a lot of uninformed business operator. So I do hope the problem stay... and yes, it will never go away.

    Regards,

    Hart

  5. #85
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    The talk about the hobbyists being weekend warriors is quite misleading also. By thinking that some start working at $12 an hour for a couple of years, and slowly move up to more than 1k a wedding, is ignoring the fact that specific hobbyist is actually losing a lot of money by charging so low. They are NOT making money, why? Equipment wear, damage, time spent, transportation costs, parking costs, additional equipment purchased... all adds up but is seldom calculated by the hobbyists. But if anyone want to be in the business of photography, be it part time, freelancing or full time, they need to look at costs in an accurate manner.

    The best way is to shoot a few assignments, and do out a spreadsheet of all costs involved. The picture will become clear.

  6. #86
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    yes, but do take note of make money is not equal to making profit,
    ones may think that collecting $350.00 from customers for an 3 hours assignment is making money,
    but he does not consider the cost, or not aware of hidden cost,
    on the balance sheet is still shows in red, because he maybe spending $500 to earn this $350.
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  7. #87
    Senior Member oracle0711's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Since we are still onto this topic, i came across this article from one of Singapore's photojournalist and her blog post on low costs or should I say zero-costs event photographers ...

    may-e: Photographer

    Enjoy!

  8. #88
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    A certain portion of the market had degenerated into something beyond salvage. Photographers only have themselves to blame. Professionals and amateurs alike.

  9. #89

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    And then there are also taxes... The regular hobbyist probably doesn't pay tax on the money he earns, does it?

    Can't say the same for the professional.
    Last edited by Blur Shadow; 19th January 2013 at 08:29 PM.
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  10. #90
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by oracle0711 View Post
    Since we are still onto this topic, i came across this article from one of Singapore's photojournalist and her blog post on low costs or should I say zero-costs event photographers ...

    may-e: Photographer

    Enjoy!
    thanks for sharing.


    Then she started to justify this out loud. Which made things worse. I started to feel a little insulted...


    "These photographers are passionate... they are very passionate about what they do. So they don't ask for money...They just work for passion...."
    This got me thinking...
    Where does this leave us, us, who do shoot for a living. We definitely don't do this for the money. Photography is just too painful to reap monetary benefits from. It doesn't happen that way. Not in this line of work.
    I am a photographer and I take pictures for a living and I AM passionate about my craft.
    But now everyone that owns a camera or a Digital SLR, is a "professional" photographer.
    Being brilliant at Photoshop does NOT make you an amazing photographer.
    They want to do the job so they undercut everyone else by doing it for free.
    This spoils the market.
    And it spoils the companies out there who just want mediocre coverage without spending a cent.
    this is really insulting, these people has noting contributing towards the photography community, cheapen the craft of photography, hindering junior photographers taking up assignments, and yet the so call customers can call them passionate!!!



    omg! 天 理 何 在???
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  11. #91

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    thanks for sharing.




    this is really insulting, these people has noting contributing towards the photography community, cheapen the craft of photography, hindering junior photographers taking up assignments, and yet the so call customers can call them passionate!!!



    omg! 天 理 何 在???
    It's not new and this won't be the last.

    What people who want to stay in business need to distinguish themselves and give people the reason to book you.

    Regards,

    Hart

  12. #92
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    It's not new and this won't be the last.

    What people who want to stay in business need to distinguish themselves and give people the reason to book you.

    Regards,

    Hart
    Don't get me wrong Hart,

    I'm referring to those people who are encouraging others to work for free, giving crap excuses.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  13. #93

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    this is really insulting, these people has noting contributing towards the photography community, cheapen the craft of photography, hindering junior photographers taking up assignments,
    Catchlights hit the nail on the head here.

    Not easy for newbie photographers.

    If anyone see this line as a profitable business that is in line of your life's orientation - creative visual works, then you just got to protect your bowl and know that some individuals' behavior are simply a threat to the life goals and rice bowl you have chosen. Its not saying that those people are evil or that you are immediate enemies, but just a sad fact of reality that you are on different sides of the line.

  14. #94
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    Don't get me wrong Hart,

    I'm referring to those people who are encouraging others to work for free, giving crap excuses.
    Takes 2 hands to clap. She will be singing the same tune as long as photographers continue to work for free. If photographers don't value their work and have a little bit of self-respect, nobody will give a damn.

  15. #95

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    the other time i suggest this subforum to be moderated ...
    becos most pple posted threads here are not suitable in this subforum

    maybe others subforums should be moderated too ?

    thread should be moderated
    thread offering services should have registered company and accessed to this subforum
    those want services should pay min. wage / hour ?
    just suggesting ..

    but i do agree that no one should have the mentality of coming CS to have cheap or free services

  16. #96
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by soeypixels
    the other time i suggest this subforum to be moderated ...
    becos most pple posted threads here are not suitable in this subforum

    maybe others subforums should be moderated too ?

    thread should be moderated
    thread offering services should have registered company and accessed to this subforum
    those want services should pay min. wage / hour ?
    just suggesting ..

    but i do agree that no one should have the mentality of coming CS to have cheap or free services
    People will always want cheap and good. We get angry seeing that, but to them it is just natural. One end is business, the other end is consumer. Not everyone goes for gourmet coffee, there are some who just wants coffee shop coffee. The trouble is when gourmet coffee charges at the price of coffee shop coffee and the cost cannot be recovered then one runs the business at a loss.

    There will always be bargain hunters around and how do we really say people should not come CS to have cheap services? There are budgets to spend within and other areas of expenditure to consider. It is up to the photogs themselves to value their services properly. I don't think much of providing lower prices if one does not do elaborate processing or shoot with high end gears. Those who are able to provide good services and images and does spend some amount of time processing images, ought to charge for what they are worth, that to me is the crux of the issue.

    You can moderate a forum and its threads, but you can't moderate the mentality and mindset of people.

  17. #97
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Just a couple of points regarding Photography Services Directory, Commercials Service Directory, Service Wanted.



    Photography Services Directory, is meant for our members to offer photography on a PERSONAL basis,
    but it does not mean we should allow any half-baked photographers going around offering free and cheap services, if photographers are not ready yet, please go equip themselves before make themselves available for hire.

    Commercials Service Directory, is a paid subscription section for professionals and seasonal photographers advertising their services, let's face it, with all the free and cheap photographers around, who will want to pay advertising dollars and not getting any jobs here?
    and without quality service providers here, how to attract good customers and clients to find photographers from here?

    Service Wanted, we allow new members sign up and post request here, all the looking for free services requests have been deleted, but some became smarter, say is a paid job but offering pathetic compensation, since nobody expose them so we won't able to remove it. Anyway, I know some members will still contact service requesters to offer cheap and free services even service requesters stated have certain budget. for that, we won't able to prevent this, but we will encourage service requesters to be contacted by private message only, so at least we can limited to our members only.





    btw, here is the only place for photographers to advertise their service for free, since it is free, nobody really hack care, just like craigslist
    so do we really want to impose paid subscription for improvement??
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  18. #98

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by nitewalk View Post
    People will always want cheap and good. We get angry seeing that, but to them it is just natural. One end is business, the other end is consumer. Not everyone goes for gourmet coffee, there are some who just wants coffee shop coffee. The trouble is when gourmet coffee charges at the price of coffee shop coffee and the cost cannot be recovered then one runs the business at a loss.

    There will always be bargain hunters around and how do we really say people should not come CS to have cheap services? There are budgets to spend within and other areas of expenditure to consider. It is up to the photogs themselves to value their services properly. I don't think much of providing lower prices if one does not do elaborate processing or shoot with high end gears. Those who are able to provide good services and images and does spend some amount of time processing images, ought to charge for what they are worth, that to me is the crux of the issue.

    You can moderate a forum and its threads, but you can't moderate the mentality and mindset of people.
    if we can compare imagery to coffee then we wont have a zillion threads on how to price ourselves, how much to sell / hr and etc ..
    theres always physical sunk cost from your coffeelogy and of what is receive by the end user

    sadly we cant really put a price tag on photography itself
    if photographer want to sell 3000x2000 full res images for $500 on a CD then the bargain hunters will go for them

    we cant moderate everyone becos not all are photographers
    nor the mentality and mindset of buyers

    all i can say is those who are starting out now - is a hard path
    u must be really good to survive
    Last edited by soeypixels; 21st January 2013 at 12:52 PM.

  19. #99

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    2 books recommend by me, which i think is really good if you really keen to take this as a FULL-TIMER
    i read from the library and i bought them later

    Best Business Practices for Photographers, Second Edition: John Harrington: 9781435454293: Amazon.com: Books
    you can find some videos on youtube

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odg5JVibDNc

    http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide...eon+lovegrowve
    Last edited by soeypixels; 21st January 2013 at 01:01 PM.

  20. #100

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    While some of you are still debating or continuing beating the death cow. A new thread has been created.

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/servi...otography.html

    $8 per hour. And the photographer has been found.

    There are many who love to take up the job despite low rate, or pay. You can continue to educate them but you just can't stop them.

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