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Thread: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

  1. #1
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  2. #2

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    IMHO, I think should not allow the faithopejoy Jolene Ng girl and her cronies to open a low balling thread, stir a lot of emotions, then she posing her lame sick reasons and closing her own thread before other members can reply to that thread.

    But I trust the good judgement of the admin and mods here if the thread need to stay closed. Anyway...

    Photo hobby is popular, I am sure they can find there own friends to do it if they are really poor and low income people (though I know many poor and low income people still have the dignity and mutual respect for people of other profession), but instead they choose to hunt for a Goon Doo here. And that is shameful.

    Maybe that day will drop by to see which OCS and which photographer shooting. Ok joke, where got time.

  3. #3

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
    IMHO, I think should not allow the faithopejoy Jolene Ng girl and her cronies to open a low balling thread, stir a lot of emotions, then she posing her lame sick reasons and closing her own thread before other members can reply to that thread.

    But I trust the good judgement of the admin and mods here if the thread need to stay closed. Anyway...

    Photo hobby is popular, I am sure they can find there own friends to do it if they are really poor and low income people (though I know many poor and low income people still have the dignity and mutual respect for people of other profession), but instead they choose to hunt for a Goon Doo here. And that is shameful.

    Maybe that day will drop by to see which OCS and which photographer shooting. Ok joke, where got time.


    Damn bloody true! Openly celebrating their 100% crap ideas with 0% dignity and acting high and above. WTF.

    Maybe should see what her clients are impressed about regarding her work. Opps, her website is down.
    Inferiority Complex Behavior Signature: A900.D3x.M9..I have this and that blah blah...

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    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by wakaowalao View Post

    Maybe should see what her clients are impressed about regarding her work. Opps, her website is down.
    Yea, noticed that she puts herself out as a photography service provider with a quick google. So she is actually farming out low-paying jobs and using CS as her hunting ground? wow.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 15th January 2013 at 01:51 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    A bit sad to see fellow photographer earning $100 for 4 hours of work, some more at after office hour.

    Hope that he is not doing it for a living.

    For those who are earning $6000 per month, he can earn this money just by sitting in office for less than 3 hours.

    For those who earning $1800 per month, it is more than his one day of salary.

    For hourly paid staff earning $6.00 per hour, he needs to work 17 hours instead of 4.

    For students, $100 is good income for extra pocket money.

    It's a matter of different perspective.

    If i am a student, i am happy to get the $100.00.

    If have have a family to support, i will think $100.00 is peanut to me and might as well use the time to have a family outing.

    There is no right or wrong. Only willing parties.

    We can claim that you pay peanut then you will get monkey, but what if TS is ok to get monkey.

    To some, it is a career, but to some, it is hobby.

    If i am a student and i love magic trick as a hobby, and people pay me $100.00 to perform in a street magic performance, i am more than happy.

    However, if i am a professional magician and i charge thousands for a show, then i will see $100 as peanut.

    So who's in the wrong? No one is in the wrong.

    We cannot expect to bring all photographers and judge them as if everyone is on the same level because we are not.
    Last edited by OoStarDustoO; 15th January 2013 at 02:16 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Yea, noticed that she puts herself out as a photography service provider with a quick google. So she is actually farming out low-paying jobs and using CS as her hunting ground? wow.
    Hope it is not a case of exploiting other photographers who are willing to work for a very cheap rate.

    The TS mentioned that she is looking for a photographer on behalf of a friend.

    But TS herself is offering photography service in CS forum at "very affordable price".
    Last edited by OoStarDustoO; 15th January 2013 at 02:32 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by OoStarDustoO View Post
    A bit sad to see fellow photographer earning $100 for 4 hours of work, some more at after office hour.

    Hope that he is not doing it for a living.

    For those who are earning $6000 per month, he can earn this money just by sitting in office for less than 3 hours.

    For those who earning $1800 per month, it is more than his one day of salary.

    For hourly paid staff earning $6.00 per hour, he needs to work 17 hours instead of 4.

    For students, $100 is good income for extra pocket money.

    It's a matter of different perspective.

    If i am a student, i am happy to get the $100.00.

    If have have a family to support, i will think $100.00 is peanut to me and might as well use the time to have a family outing.

    There is no right or wrong. Only willing parties.

    We can claim that you pay peanut then you will get monkey, but what if TS is ok to get monkey.

    To some, it is a career, but to some, it is hobby.

    If i am a student and i love magic trick as a hobby, and people pay me $100.00 to perform in a street magic performance, i am more than happy.

    However, if i am a professional magician and i charge thousands for a show, then i will see $100 as peanut.

    So who's in the wrong? No one is in the wrong.

    We cannot expect to bring all photographers and judge them as if everyone is on the same level because we are not.

    Your are right, we are not all on the same level so why gave those examples which its totally not the same comparison. So don't try to generalize this situation.

    For an event shoot, you will firstly need a decent camera/DSLR body which cost min. $1k or $30 if you are renting, unless you are someone famous guy who can shoot with a pns or iphone I don't care.

    For shooting with a camera body, of course you will need a lens which cost min. $100 (cheap 2nd-hand kit lens) or maybe $20 (renting).

    For shooting a low-light event, you will definitely need a decent flash which cost min. $200 or $20 (renting).

    For all to happens, you will need memory cards which ranges from $20 onwards for a 8gb.

    Forget about owning these equipments and just for renting cost alone, it all add up to min. $100 (not including transportation of getting/returning equipments, to location etc).

    Oh not forgetting some cheapos client wants some basic processing thus adding computers, editing time blah blah blah...

    So let me ask you, any goondus here still thinks there's nothing wrong with that pathetic rates? We should just stood by and watch this exploitation takes place because of your "willing parties" crap theories??
    Inferiority Complex Behavior Signature: A900.D3x.M9..I have this and that blah blah...

  8. #8

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by wakaowalao View Post
    Your are right, we are not all on the same level so why gave those examples which its totally not the same comparison. So don't try to generalize this situation.

    For an event shoot, you will firstly need a decent camera/DSLR body which cost min. $1k or $30 if you are renting, unless you are someone famous guy who can shoot with a pns or iphone I don't care.

    For shooting with a camera body, of course you will need a lens which cost min. $100 (cheap 2nd-hand kit lens) or maybe $20 (renting).

    For shooting a low-light event, you will definitely need a decent flash which cost min. $200 or $20 (renting).

    For all to happens, you will need memory cards which ranges from $20 onwards for a 8gb.

    Forget about owning these equipments and just for renting cost alone, it all add up to min. $100 (not including transportation of getting/returning equipments, to location etc).

    Oh not forgetting some cheapos client wants some basic processing thus adding computers, editing time blah blah blah...

    So let me ask you, any goondus here still thinks there's nothing wrong with that pathetic rates? We should just stood by and watch this exploitation takes place because of your "willing parties" crap theories??
    Exactly what i mean when i mentioned about perspective, if you know what it means, which i don't think so.

    I didn't agree that $100 is a good rate, but there is no reason to blame anyone for taking it up.

    What you mentioned there are not very valid because those who are willing to take up the job would already possessed those things which you mentioned.

    If i put it as a student's pespective, $100 is ok.

    Student don't need transport because he could have already about the monthly concession.

    As a student, if i want extra pocket money, i can work as a banquet waiter for 6 hours at Shangrila and it all so happen to be OCS commissioning ball.

    My earnings are 6 hours x $7.50 = $45.00

    If just nice my hobby is photo taking and i think i can do an OK job, i get $100.00 in 4 hours and somemore shorter working time, it is reasonable for me to take up the $100 job.

    From my example, you can see that i am not comparing profession, but the hours put in and the salary received.

    But it's another story altogether if i have a high paying job.

    For your case, you should be earning quite good money i guess.
    Last edited by OoStarDustoO; 15th January 2013 at 02:53 PM.

  9. #9
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by OoStarDustoO View Post
    Hope it is not a case of exploiting other photographers who are willing to work for a very cheap rate.

    The TS mentioned that she is looking for a photographer on behalf of a friend.

    But TS herself is offering photography service in CS forum at "very affordable price".
    Definitely sounds very much like it.

  10. #10

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    well... do let the requester know this, it will be like taking budget airlines, don't expect for the same things found in Singapore Airlines.

  11. #11

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    many photographers think every dollar earned is a dollar of profit. they forgot about cost of equipments, their time and effort in learning, time and effort involved in the event, cost they have to bear if their equipment is stolen or broken, the cost of backup equipments, ...

    i didn't know all these at first, but i learn a bit here and there from the seniors.. i believe that we ought to educate all the photographers constantly, and then it is their choice if they still want to take such low paying jobs..

    the pay for that job in question is just too low!

  12. #12

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    In business, you do your business with your head and not your emotion. If people want to charge cheap, let them. It is really none of your or my business.

    In business, you can either do it honestly and make an honest living, or you could choose to stretch the truth and cover your conscience as long as it makes money. Either way, it works as business. Just find one that fit your own personality.

    We know charging low isn't the way for photographers who is looking stay in the business, I would find it a lot more productive if people give suggestion to remidiate the issue rather then bitching about it. Thing won't get better if we continue to bitch about low budget.

    Regards,

    Hart

  13. #13

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    In business, you do your business with your head and not your emotion. If people want to charge cheap, let them. It is really none of your or my business.

    In business, you can either do it honestly and make an honest living, or you could choose to stretch the truth and cover your conscience as long as it makes money. Either way, it works as business. Just find one that fit your own personality.

    We know charging low isn't the way for photographers who is looking stay in the business, I would find it a lot more productive if people give suggestion to remidiate the issue rather then bitching about it. Thing won't get better if we continue to bitch about low budget.

    Regards,

    Hart
    Exactly my thoughts.
    Mostly a fashion & commercial shooter.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Its sad actually .

    There are photographers that TS can sub-con a $100 job to .
    How much commission can she earn for the job ?
    How MUCH can the photographer earn for the job ?

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Exposure

    well... do let the requester know this, it will be like taking budget airlines, don't expect for the same things found in Singapore Airlines.
    I do like the analogy..

    Remember people wont expect SIA standards on budget airline. But its sufficient for most. That is the key.

    And like Hart says, its pointless to whine.
    Stop names calling but rather if you're able, to convince people why its worthwhile to pay more for SIA.

    But of course, big boys pls try not to come out with Scoot, or something.. Unfortunately, that sure seems like the trend nowadays..lol

  16. #16
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    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Simple
    1) Separate sub-forum for these cheapo-freebo folks. *sings* how low can you go *sings* game.
    2) As professionals with a mind for business, too much effort to target these folks. Prime example of Hollywood content piracy, there'll always be someone else. Best is to walk away and focus your energy on better things.
    cheapo-freebos should just post these kinda request on twitter/fb. easier to get people too.

    this thread very entertaining. *gets popcorn*
    Co-Founder
    Entree Media

  17. #17

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    The fact that the price is too low for sustainable work is true. The issue is not the end user wants this price is that fellow photographers will post this for their friends even if they disagree with the price point. Even if it is your customer wanting this, as a photographer, you can refuse to help find some XXXXXX who thinks this is free money. In doing so you help keep the ecosystem of paid photography alive. When price points slide, it may start at the bottom end, in time even high end market will move downwards. When that happens standards start to stop growing upwards and start to move downwards. The profession will start dieing back and in time there will be no such thing as a professional photographer.

    That's a fact not just in this small pond but in the US and rest of the world. The rise of the football mum cum photographer is a trend that is thriving - smile there are plenty of professional photographers doing faux courses to "help" take their money while selling dream of becoming a professional photographer.

    Of course none of these instructors will ever mention the phrase innate talent nor acquired eye for the image. That is one of the facets that separate the wanna be's from the real professionals. The technical mastery of know what to do to get the result is another. The ability to still perform when every thing that can go wrong happens is probably an attitude of mind that is seldom taught - it arise from the creed that you have to be able to deliver no if's no but's if not you did not perform as a professional. All these aspects that time to develop, it also needs the crucibled by working under pressure, working on an area before you are totally ready - many mentors push you to do work that you are almost capable of doing because it forces you to assimilate and integrate what you understand, with what you heard about and make jumps in thinking to move up a notch. At least mine did. No point stopping a one point and staying there for ever. Improvements must be on going. Stagnate and the art/skill starts to die. Without a market the pays well enough to support paid photography & photographers, any one in that market will have to be constantly shooting just make ends meet; no time to experiment no time to learn new things, no time to train/teach newbies. In time really good photography will be history then it will all be just good enough.

  18. #18

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    I think the opposite is true.

    If you dare to charge and support your charge with value... you will get the job regardless.

    The choice is yours.

  19. #19

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    Just out of curiosity. When the pro were just starting out their photo biz. When they are still nobody, not much portfolio. How do they start? How much will they charge? Cos if a "nobody" photographer come with small portfolio or even with a very good portfolio (cos not sure if his own works). I will also think twice when he trying to charge a pro pricing. esp when Google him and nothing come out. I would rather use that money to pay a real pro to do the job.

  20. #20

    Default Re: What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cursor View Post
    Just out of curiosity. When the pro were just starting out their photo biz. When they are still nobody, not much portfolio. How do they start? How much will they charge? Cos if a "nobody" photographer come with small portfolio or even with a very good portfolio (cos not sure if his own works). I will also think twice when he trying to charge a pro pricing. esp when Google him and nothing come out. I would rather use that money to pay a real pro to do the job.
    Before one should consider photography as income, you should have technical skills to deal with most situation. That's correctly expose and having correctly focus images.

    Also, one should do enough personal work to find their inner vision. What are they really selling in terms of their work? You will be very surprise that even season photographers don't understand this and the results generally mean just enough job to cover or make some money but not enough to retire.

    So when you know what you doing, know what is your inner voice, find a few of your friends and family offer your service for free but exchange the rights to use this as your portfolio.

    Being well verse in Technical and finding your own voice take years for many and perhaps takes many months for those who are extremely talented.

    Do up your portfolio and be honest about it and find your audience. Price it lower then your value. Remember price lower then your value is not the same as cheap.

    If you find your correct audience, with the right portfolio and selling it under the value, you will get the job.

    Now, how to move from here is make sure, with every assignment, you should deliver above and beyond what you have in your portfolio. An honest conduct while providing value will get you going.

    Depending on how busy you are, increase your price to drop the volume while offering value to your clients. Do the above process long and well enough, you can charge like your peers in no time.

    As you increase your price, you lose clients but pick up new one along the way if you market it correctly.

    You won't win all jobs, but you will do very well on every single work that you book. To build a stable business, you need at least 2-3 years working on it constantly and improving it constantly. Many look for quick bucks and quit before anything good come along. Rome wasn't build in a day so your business will take years to develop.

    I hope that make sense.

    Regards,

    Hart
    Last edited by Agetan; 16th January 2013 at 10:20 AM.

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