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Thread: how to reduce/eliminate harsh shadow even with stofen OB?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST_sg
    ya... mainly shooting my kids in house.. sometime the shadow is quite bad cast on the wall..

    I was also thinking putting another SB-600 as slave flash to fill the background might help...

    btw, is there any place sells those backdrop, normal room height (probably I only need plain color eg. Striky Yellow, Full white, Full black)? .. hehehe... a mini studio like setup

    (My PS skill not good in removing backgroud)

    Thanks.
    Can consider those cheap dumb flash to use as slave to combine with another slave plus your built-in flash. Both slaves to be used bounced. Just need to adjust your aperture manually to suit the room and distance.
    I love big car, big house, big lenses, but small apertures.

  2. #22

    Default give it a try...

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
    btw, no matter how slow shutter or open aperture, i think when you use flash at minimum, shadow will still be the same if the person stand near the wall)
    The dark shadow area has a constant ambient light. Conditions (fast shutter, small aperture, low ISO) that "underexpose" that area will lead to dark shadow when flash is added.

    Bounce add more light to the shadow area and reduce direct flash light on subject===> less harsh shadow

    So, I guess we should bounce more and minimize underexposing ambient light.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by ortega
    actually thinking back, I even shoot inside a HDB lift without strong shadows, 4 people in the lift somemore. The room cannot be smaller that the lift! Even the smallest room the toilet, is begger that the lift.
    Could be the walls are so close to light source (flash), they act as bounce card. Some more light is reflected in multi-direction.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallaperture
    Can consider those cheap dumb flash to use as slave to combine with another slave plus your built-in flash. Both slaves to be used bounced. Just need to adjust your aperture manually to suit the room and distance.
    Why don’t use a simple method like ceiling/wall bounce. The flash is the main light and the ceiling/wall is a big softbox, very hard to go wrong with this, all you need to know where the light come from so where will the shadow cast.

    If have difficulty with to control only 1 light, add more lights doesn’t help much either.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigmouse
    The dark shadow area has a constant ambient light. Conditions (fast shutter, small aperture, low ISO) that "underexpose" that area will lead to dark shadow when flash is added.

    Bounce add more light to the shadow area and reduce direct flash light on subject===> less harsh shadow

    So, I guess we should bounce more and minimize underexposing ambient light.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigmouse
    Could be the walls are so close to light source (flash), they act as bounce card. Some more light is reflected in multi-direction.
    The larger light source, produce softer highlight and shadow

  5. #25

    Red face

    hahaha... guys, this is a very challenging topic hor...

    1. Got to try out the direct bounce to ceiling without OB. Then can judge is the result better.

    2. As for where to place my kids, or where I stand, you know lah... how big is a common HDB flat bedroom or living room? Shadow sure have one. If I use D70's built-in flash, the result worst than SB-600 + OB. (That's the reason this thread created)

    3. As for the backdrop, thinking of having better picture quality with combination of background color for various shooting/mood effect.. (am new and thinking want to learn a bit at this area) eg. say my kids wear red t-shirt and background with yellow.. etc. I have a few good shots but spoilt by poor/dull background with harsh shadow

    Hope you guys have better idea what I'm trying to achieve now...
    Canon 40D|17-55 f/2.8 IS|100 f/2.8 Macro|135 f/2L|300 f/4L IS|430ex|BG-E2

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  7. #27
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnka
    how about a home-made softbox ?

    http://www.fredmiranda.com/A18/

    How big is this doggie figurine?

    To achieve the same lighting effect on a small kid. Your softbox would have to be the size of a manjong table, and subject –light distance is not more that 2 meters.
    Last edited by catchlights; 16th March 2005 at 08:01 PM.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    How big is this doggie figurine?

    To achieve the same lighting effect on a small kid. Your softbox would have to be the size of a manjong table, and subject –light distance is not more that 2 meters.
    i've no idea how big is that doggie maybe you can post your query/concern to the writer... he shld have the answer. better still, get him to show some pix of ppl taken with his setup then we'll know if it works practically

  9. #29
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnka
    i've no idea how big is that doggie maybe you can post your query/concern to the writer... he shld have the answer. better still, get him to show some pix of ppl taken with his setup then we'll know if it works practically
    You can tell this from the pix, this is a very small figurine.

    What I'm try to say is, to get a softbox effect, the softbox need to be the same size as the subject, and the bigger the better.

    Now come back to the original point, ceiling/wall bounce is the best option to solve the problem.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by ST_sg
    hahaha... guys, this is a very challenging topic hor...

    1. Got to try out the direct bounce to ceiling without OB. Then can judge is the result better.
    if your room is relatively small, try this method: rotate your flash + OB to point 180 degrees backwards and 60 degrees up. we're trying to throw as much light as possible off the ceiling and at the side walls without getting a strong frontal flash.
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  11. #31
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    To achieve soft natural shadows, you'll have to have a very large/diffused light source (much like taking pics outdoors on a cloudy day compared to clear sky day).
    with Bounce cards mounted on the flash, the light source is still relatively small like light from a torchlight it gets worse if the card is shiny. There is another kind of flash mounted softbox that you can buy from the shops (I forget the name) you simply inflate the softbox and strap it to your flash.
    Another way, if you have time, is to hang a relative large white cloth in front of a slave flash shot from an angle to subject (make sure that the flash is not too near to the cloth). Result, you get a diffused light from an angle which gives you subject a more pleasent 3D effect.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST_sg
    I find that, most of the time, with my external flash (420ex - last time), (SB-600 current system) did cast deep shadow of the subject, although I'd tilted the flash head 60 degree up with stofen OB on.

    One of the reason might due to the subject quite near to the wall (< 3 meters) ... however, is there solution to this situation?

    All input welcome

    Thanks in advance.
    Use a lumiquest 80-20 for better bounced effect without shadow problem. I selling at $30 if you want it, pm me.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDZ2
    To achieve soft natural shadows, you'll have to have a very large/diffused light source (much like taking pics outdoors on a cloudy day compared to clear sky day).
    with Bounce cards mounted on the flash, the light source is still relatively small like light from a torchlight it gets worse if the card is shiny. There is another kind of flash mounted softbox that you can buy from the shops (I forget the name) you simply inflate the softbox and strap it to your flash.
    Another way, if you have time, is to hang a relative large white cloth in front of a slave flash shot from an angle to subject (make sure that the flash is not too near to the cloth). Result, you get a diffused light from an angle which gives you subject a more pleasent 3D effect.
    That is omni bounced soft box...I'm selling a 580ex mount at $20...anyone want it?

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Tan
    Use a lumiquest 80-20 for better bounced effect without shadow problem. I selling at $30 if you want it, pm me.
    pull me into BBB hahaha...

    I'm using SB-600... how's the lumiquest 80-20 looks like?
    If it works or better than stofen OB... I can get one from you...

    what you guys opinion?
    Canon 40D|17-55 f/2.8 IS|100 f/2.8 Macro|135 f/2L|300 f/4L IS|430ex|BG-E2

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by varf
    if your room is relatively small, try this method: rotate your flash + OB to point 180 degrees backwards and 60 degrees up. we're trying to throw as much light as possible off the ceiling and at the side walls without getting a strong frontal flash.
    Thanks varf. Your method sounds innovative and would definitely give it a try!

    Thanks for all experience input too..

    Cheers!
    Canon 40D|17-55 f/2.8 IS|100 f/2.8 Macro|135 f/2L|300 f/4L IS|430ex|BG-E2

  16. #36

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    Hmm... this lumiquest 80-20 looks good heh...

    Before


    After
    Canon 40D|17-55 f/2.8 IS|100 f/2.8 Macro|135 f/2L|300 f/4L IS|430ex|BG-E2

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Tan
    Use a lumiquest 80-20 for better bounced effect without shadow problem. I selling at $30 if you want it, pm me.

    How is it looks like? Any pics to show?

  18. #38
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    My personal experience with the Omnibounce (but Omnibounce and Nikon's version) are next to useless in softening light. They give you the hard shadows mentioned above. Using ceiling bounce with or without bounce card is a hell lot better. Without bounce card, you get shadows below the chin, eyes, etc tho, so a bounce card will let you fill in these shadows.

    I find I get better results with direct flash, built-in flash, omnibounce if I shoot at higher ISO then -2 on the flash. Shoot at an exposure as close to the ambient light as possible, then make the flash a fill light as opposed ot main light.

    Regards
    CK

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