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Thread: Model shoot -- don't spoil market

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by plsoong
    think about it this way rather than electricity.
    How about water? Supposed to be free what.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reflection
    How about water? Supposed to be free what.
    lol

    eh, its free woh.... but very unpredictable .....

    need to wait for the skys to open up then only free....

    but then, still need to boil, so end up still back to electricity bills


  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by plsoong
    lol

    eh, its free woh.... but very unpredictable .....

    need to wait for the skys to open up then only free....

    but then, still need to boil, so end up still back to electricity bills

    OT a little bit here. When i was camping in the outbacks of Canada, i'd scoop up a cup from the river and do a bottoms up. No boiling necessary.

    Wasn't really free because i had to canoe for 2hrs and climb over a portage or two. Due to the increase in energy consumption, i had to eat. Had to dish out the dough for the bread (no pun intended).

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeckson Chow
    Hello guys,

    Sorry to interupt in this thread but may I know why are we paying to shoot people, in the first place? For the professionals, paying and receiving pay is alright because their rice bowl depends on this art.

    For hobbyist and serious photographers, why are we paying to shoot people? Becasue the person we are shooting looks nice? Because the person we are shooting knows how to pose?

    Photography is an expensive hobby. We have already spent so much money on the equipment and accessories, now we are spending money to shoot? I cannot see the logic behind this.

    There are some points I agree and disagree in this thread so I think it will be better to express my views on this rather than to agree or disagree with the nice people here.

    As a newbie, I really think that it is doesn't make sense to pay for a person to shoot that person. We, as photographers, possesses the right skills and enthusiasm to be able to transform anybody on the street into a beautiful subject of our own vision. I really have the urge to go for such shoots but then hold my horses when I think rationally.

    Remember guys, we are practising and fine-tuning our skills with photography, engaging a person to act as a model and a subject so that we can focus on, and not to get a pretty face to stand there and let people shoot and let people comment on how this shot was taken nicely, model looks cute, etc. It is skills and not the people. We brush up our skills and not look at good looking models to fill our lenses.

    If I am to engage in a photo shoot, I'll most probably start off with a normal person, that is, one that doesn't charge. I can practise on my skills and he/she can practise on how to pose. I believe we are the persons that makes and transform a duck to a swan.

    Just my 2 cents worth. Sorry if I have offended anybody. No hard feelings.
    yes, I take offense, and most model will also ... aren't models also normal people!!!!!
    deadpoet
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  5. #45

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    [QUOTE=Reflection]OT a little bit here. When i was camping in the outbacks of Canada, i'd scoop up a cup from the river and do a bottoms up. No boiling necessary.

    Wasn't really free because i had to canoe for 2hrs and climb over a portage or two. Due to the increase in energy consumption, i had to eat. Had to dish out the dough for the bread (no pun intended). QUOTE]


    major OT here
    wow...sounds exactly like my experience in Melbourne.

    i went there for a year of my studies and went bushwalking (as the natives always say) at wilson's promonatory. well, wasn't really walking (nor beating) around the bush, but had to climb mountains up and down till after 5 hours of hiking, reached this small valley that had temperatures dipping really low to the 10 degrees or so.... just a small plot with major foilage and so, just after Fern Gully.

    i scooped up the running water and had a major refresher (thinking drinking super ice cold water on a hot day). u get this kinda "brain freeze" effect.

    and yeah, i had to pay to book to get into W.P. costs me about AU$325 per pax..... for an overnight outdoor bush camp experience....

    but at the end, i really did enjoy the whole thing so it was $$ well spent

  6. #46
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    If you dont want to pay (or cant afford to pay for a model shooting), just dont join these Model shots.

    And i suggest you should look for some nice looking friends, collegues or relatives; and arrange a time with them for photo outing, in return for Prints, Lunch, etc. Look for some friends at Work, in your Class, Relatives, and discuss with them your situation. Even if they may not be superbly good looking (And honestly, SOME of the models advertised here arent that good looking also, no offense), but if your intention is to polish your photography skills, YOUR classmate would do a good subject. (However, if you are willing to make a very good portfolio, I guess you should be paying for a right model.)

    It could be joyful as you can treated as some kind of fun outing also going out with you friends or relatives. You may be the one and only photographer, who dont have to wait for other photogs to shoot. You may take breaks as long as you want, and any time. You may change the location anytime if you got bored. You might need to pay for the transportation (ie. TAXI), but compared to the cost of the model shootings here, its well worth it, i think.

    And alternatively, you and YOUR models could share the cost of a small Studio, Hotel Room(for photoshooting, okay?) for some experience, you could arrange also.

    I've gone out for shooting with my friends, girlfriend plenty of times and it was really fun. Afterall, its all about having FUN, if you aint a pro photog. (If you are a pro photog, go pay for a model.)

    (And my tip is: Most of the girls like to be Photographed. The bigger camera you have, the more willing they would pose for you.)

    HAVE A GOOD DAY!
    My Gallery at DeviantART http://waiaung.deviantart.com

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeckson Chow
    Hello guys,

    Sorry to interupt in this thread but may I know why are we paying to shoot people, in the first place? For the professionals, paying and receiving pay is alright because their rice bowl depends on this art.

    For hobbyist and serious photographers, why are we paying to shoot people? Becasue the person we are shooting looks nice? Because the person we are shooting knows how to pose?

    ...
    If I am to engage in a photo shoot, I'll most probably start off with a normal person, that is, one that doesn't charge. I can practise on my skills and he/she can practise on how to pose. I believe we are the persons that makes and transform a duck to a swan.

    Just my 2 cents worth. Sorry if I have offended anybody. No hard feelings.

    Oh you mean like why some people ask for free service and people start making tons of noise and yet paying for models (which don't require props) to shoot them ?? ??


  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeckson Chow
    We, as photographers, possesses the right skills and enthusiasm to be able to transform anybody on the street into a beautiful subject of our own vision. I really have the urge to go for such shoots but then hold my horses when I think rationally.
    No hard feelings here!

    Since you want to talk logic, here goes!

    You think that by calling yourself a photographer you possess the "right skills and enthusiasm to transform anybody on the street into a subject of our own vision?"

    It takes YEARS to possess that skill, and then more!

    There is no question that one should also practise the art by photographying "non-professional" models. Most of my models today are people who are acquaintances and friends. I am not a pro, and I don't depend on photography for a living. I also do not organise model shoots. But there are good reasons to photograph "professional" models. Some of the reasons are:

    1 They are usually comfortable in front of the camera. Many "friends" may not be comfortable in front of the camera.

    2 As a newbie, and learning lighting and "posing", you will tax the patience of your friends. They won't be your friends much longer! The "pro" models are paid to model, and they will, within reasons, take the nonsense amateur photographers dish out to them.

    3 Another reason for hiring certain models - the "look". Not all people possess that special "something" for example, portrait. There are some that have that special thing they can give.

    Remember, an image is NOT just the photographer, It is the final result of three things that come together - the photographer, the subject, and the equipment. If there is no great clouds, your image will have no great clouds. Period. It matters not if you are the greatest photographer on earth! If your model do not have that "something", you can try all you want, and you will still not have that "something". If your model (pro or nonpro) don't have that "something" to give, they cannot not give that "something"

    I am constantly on the lookout for such people, whether "pro" or "non-pro". If I am lucky, I can find a friend who meet this requirement, I am delighted! But if I find a "pro" who has such quality, I will not hesitate to pay this model (within reason of course! I would love to photograph Christy Turlington, but her asking fees, I was told, is in the region of about ten grand!)

    So, to get that "skill" you mentioned, it takes years and hard work, and lots of shooting. And photographing paid models is just one of the processes one takes,if one wants to excell in this genre of people photography. If you are interested only in street photography, this might not apply.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by student
    No hard feelings here!

    Since you want to talk logic, here goes!

    You think that by calling yourself a photographer you possess the "right skills and enthusiasm to transform anybody on the street into a subject of our own vision?"

    It takes YEARS to possess that skill, and then more!

    There is no question that one should also practise the art by photographying "non-professional" models. Most of my models today are people who are acquaintances and friends. I am not a pro, and I don't depend on photography for a living. I also do not organise model shoots. But there are good reasons to photograph "professional" models. Some of the reasons are:

    1 They are usually comfortable in front of the camera. Many "friends" may not be comfortable in front of the camera.

    2 As a newbie, and learning lighting and "posing", you will tax the patience of your friends. They won't be your friends much longer! The "pro" models are paid to model, and they will, within reasons, take the nonsense amateur photographers dish out to them.

    3 Another reason for hiring certain models - the "look". Not all people possess that special "something" for example, portrait. There are some that have that special thing they can give.

    Remember, an image is NOT just the photographer, It is the final result of three things that come together - the photographer, the subject, and the equipment. If there is no great clouds, your image will have no great clouds. Period. It matters not if you are the greatest photographer on earth! If your model do not have that "something", you can try all you want, and you will still not have that "something". If your model (pro or nonpro) don't have that "something" to give, they cannot not give that "something"

    I am constantly on the lookout for such people, whether "pro" or "non-pro". If I am lucky, I can find a friend who meet this requirement, I am delighted! But if I find a "pro" who has such quality, I will not hesitate to pay this model (within reason of course! I would love to photograph Christy Turlington, but her asking fees, I was told, is in the region of about ten grand!)

    So, to get that "skill" you mentioned, it takes years and hard work, and lots of shooting. And photographing paid models is just one of the processes one takes,if one wants to excell in this genre of people photography. If you are interested only in street photography, this might not apply.
    hehe...

    i thought when you will come in. clear cut explanation. straight to the point.

  10. #50
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    student,

    Supermodels fees command much higher than you mentioned. I heard from a friend of mine from the states that Christy T command about USD$35,000 per day for fashion shoots.

    My fav is the the ever changing hair colour model, L.Evangelista aka the Chameleon. She commands at USD$50,000 per day for fashion shoot. I was given a chance to shoot when I was in Australia. Now this is THE MODEL that just blew my socks and mind away. When she is in front of the camera, nothing else matter. She is very professional with her job and that is why she is worth so much.

    Models are still models. The more you pay, the better you get. The less you pay........well no comments.

  11. #51
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    let's give the thread starter a break.

    i don't think she started this as any attack (personal or otherwise) against anyone. she's probably just pointing out that model shoots are spiralling upwards in price, and this is just a post to remind everyone to stop, take stock of prices and evaluate the worth of it.

    but, the point raised by others abt supply and demand is the crux of the issue. whether it is worth paying or not is up to those who sign up. it's the same philosophy in buy and sell. and so long as people sign up, the prices will remain.

    for this heads up. it's fair to remind everyone, but well... it'll definitely get the organisers hot under the collar.

    Quote Originally Posted by truth-photographer
    I looked at the pages and I saw that there are many threads of the model shoots. Well, if the session are meant as a gathering of photographers, I support it. But it seems otherwise now, as it has become a business opportunity.

    I cannot believe that there are sessions that charge $150 per head for 3 hours shoot, maximum 10 people. I am sure the usage of the venue and props do not need that much money.

    I think we should put a stop to these sky high prices for the photo shoot less we spoil the market. I rather the models put up their services and we pay her direct. If the models are the one who put up these sky high prices, we really need to relook the market.

    In fact, my dad is also surprised about the existence of this lucrative market and so many foolish photographers jump into signing up.

    I remembered there is this agency called Jeffrey Chung (still around?) and the models fee are like at most $150 per hour. I rather get her for $450 for 3 hours, and 10 of us share the bill, only $45 per head!

  12. #52
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    The question here that i want to ask is....very simple..why ppl pays big mony to buy a merz or a BMW and why ppl can only dive proton or japs car ?

    Prference ...Quality of Models .....? etc...you name it can be there...lets not bug this types of issues here ...there can be no absolute answer...

  13. #53
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    52 posts in 1 thread.

    If you folks were out shooting, I think it'd have been more fruitful.

    Com'on just leave things be and get on with life, don't try to improve anything.

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by obviousdude
    let's give the thread starter a break.

    i don't think she started this as any attack (personal or otherwise) against anyone. she's probably just pointing out that model shoots are spiralling upwards in price, and this is just a post to remind everyone to stop, take stock of prices and evaluate the worth of it.

    but, the point raised by others abt supply and demand is the crux of the issue. whether it is worth paying or not is up to those who sign up. it's the same philosophy in buy and sell. and so long as people sign up, the prices will remain.

    for this heads up. it's fair to remind everyone, but well... it'll definitely get the organisers hot under the collar.
    I disagree. the entire point of this post, as started by the original poster, was attack. I have no idea of the motivation. he/she did not state it clearly. However, the fact is, he/she is ultra critical of organisers charging what the market will bear, and of photographers paying to shoot a model.
    deadpoet
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  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    52 posts in 1 thread.

    If you folks were out shooting, I think it'd have been more fruitful.

    Com'on just leave things be and get on with life, don't try to improve anything.
    I did. Great shoot this morning. Well worth the money, and the organiser did not rob us blind, and the model made some money, and I had many great shots.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet
    I did. Great shoot this morning. Well worth the money, and the organiser did not rob us blind, and the model made some money, and I had many great shots.

    shot and the evening shot i had with carole was extremely fruitful and great..the money was worth well spent..

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by John
    shot and the evening shot i had with carole was extremely fruitful and great..the money was worth well spent..

    opps thye message got truncated...

    i meant the monring shot and the evening shot with carole was extremely fruitful and ..money worth spent...

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by plsoong
    think about it this way rather than electricity.

    its like golf.
    there are serious hobbyists golfers around. (not many people like golfing too, just like not many people like photography too)

    y issit that golfers must pay for green fees? EVEN in public courses? and it gets more expensive with buggy, caddies so on and so forth.

    HECK, y pay for a country club membership fees to pay golf?

    for the same logic of reason, there is a middle person, and this middle person is also known as the organizer. He/she organizes the flights of golf, the time, the location (aka 9 hole/18 hole championship course) basically he ORGANIZES. he organizes everything from the welfare of the golfers to the planting of the trees to the tidying up of the course, to the watering of the course to maintain the GREENERY, to the trimming of the fairways to the allocation of caddies and instructors.

    Likewise, there is an organizer who organises model shoots so on and so forth.

    for professional golfers, they pay ALOT more to play in their own league, circuit. as for amateurs or even beginners, the coach/organizer can hire coachers, instructurs to guide them on the fairway.

    if u think of the maintenance of the golf course, u can probably appreciate the cost involved, LET alone sprucing it up to give members/public the draw to repeatedly patronise that course.

    now relate this to the modelling business in CS


    fact is, if u think its THAT easy and simple to even approach anybody on the street to get amateurs and "market" the idea of a photoshoot in CS WITHOUT KNOWING the other person, let alone tie down makeup artiste, locality, weather check, transport so on and so forth, please feel free to organize it, i'm sure most CSers will not mind at all!
    Superb analogy!

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    52 posts in 1 thread.

    If you folks were out shooting, I think it'd have been more fruitful.

    Com'on just leave things be and get on with life, don't try to improve anything.
    Hear ye! Hear ye!

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