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Thread: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

  1. #21
    Moderator nitewalk's Avatar
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    Default Re: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blur Shadow View Post
    I know of some good folks who use mirrorless systems for video.... But I digress...

    I think the issue is multi-fold.

    1. Technical Aspect
    - Are the current mirrorless systems sufficiently mature?
    + Are the available systems able to effectively capture the scene? (Speed of focusing, quality image processor, quality of image sensor at various ISO etc.)
    + Is the lens selection adequate?
    + Are the accessories adequate? (Flash, secondary media slot etc.)
    - Assuming that the 35mm dSLR systems are the de facto leaders in this field, do mirrorless systems offer any benefits that 35mm dSLR systems cannot?

    2. Client Acceptance
    - Can the client(s) accept the use of a mirrorless systems?
    + Do they trust the skill and output of both the photographer and the latter's tools?
    + If "face" in important to the client, then what are the perceptions of the guests on the use of the mirrorless systems?

    3. Business Solutioning
    - What advantages do a mirrorless system provide over a traditional setup? (Cost? Strategic advantage?)

    I think with these pointers as starting points, you will be able to discern if there is a market sufficiently large for the use of mirrorless systems today for important personal events such as weddings.

    As with point #2, I was also trying to make an alternative point. And I think this trust may have nothing to do with the photographer's skill. True, we will call them the clueless ones, but clueless they shall be. Of course, I'm not saying to carry the top gears to shoot just to gain that trust, but I think as per breaking down of an issue and I think this is also one issue which may not be often, but also worth considering for the open-minded.

  2. #22

    Default Re: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

    Guess the mindset of wedding pple is

    Pro photographer+pro big massive looking camera= good results.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

    I feel that when/if industry leaders start using them more, more clients feel comfortable, other pg will then follow. If it sells, use iphone also ok..
    There will even be a case one day when clients ask 'why is 'So n so famous' using a mirrorless and you're not..lol

    Mirrorless are surely already capable enough if not very soon..
    Last edited by saberlancer; 2nd January 2013 at 07:37 PM.

  4. #24
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    seems like general consensus approves of using mirrorless for wedding shoots.

    I'll like to kick up the dust a bit here. I am not a wedding photographer. From a consumer perspective, I will reject a mirrorless for the below reasons:

    - I expect more colour information and details to be captured. So the bigger sensor size, the better. I also do not expect noise on my beautiful bride so ISO has to be able to support dim conditions.
    - limited lenses. Are the lenses in the same resolution or together with the camera able to generate creative shots like the Canikons. I have seen some wonderful creative pre-wedding with TS-E, UWA, f1.2 lenses. I do not want the gears to limit what the photographer can do. End up all the photos looked like any other weddings.
    - I definitely do want critical moments to be captured with faster AF systems. Let's face it, even if someone is to manual focus with a Leica for 2 hours, it will not be as effective as having AF, fastest possible AF. The look, the expression, the moment gone is gone. I want the photographer to be best equipped to capture these moments. Imagine the EVF lagging.
    - The label as pro camera. So far no mirrorless has marketed themselves as pro usage. Some of my guests are carrying mirrorless to the wedding. Unlikely anyone will carry a FF DSLR. Then they will joked that I got no money to engage proper photographer? Loss of face.

    Basically, identical points mentioned by Blur Shadow. Just my opinions.
    Last edited by ManWearPants; 4th January 2013 at 03:14 AM.

  5. #25
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

    these are all about gears talk again and again and again, talk until cows come home also never end.

    from photographers POV, cameras gears etc are just a tool, use the right tool to do the job right, simple as that.

    from business POV, using the least expenses, maximise your profitability. at the end of the day, if your business doesn't make any profit, you business is history.

    from consumers POV, spending the least and getting the most, that is a wise customer should do.




    I used to shoot weddings for living, but nowadays I not longer shooting weddings and events.
    let me tell you more about wedding customers, basically there are two kinds of mentality.

    one is only willing to pay for tangible things.
    like how many photos you are shooting and giving, how big is the album, how many hours you cover, any free gifts, any discounts.
    in short, whatever things that they can see, they pay. things that they can not see, they don't pay.
    so this customers go around shopping for wedding photographers, whoever charge the cheapest and using more and bigger camera gears, giving more prints, more service hours, more add on services, more free gifts, will get their business.


    one is willing to pay more for unseeable things.
    they looking for "trust", "Positive experiences", "uniquity",
    as such, it can't be measure by price, so photographers who able to offer these, they have little competitors.


    so you want to be label as "cheap" photographer or brand yourself as an "unique" photographer?
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by ManWearPants View Post
    seems like general consensus approves of using mirrorless for wedding shoots.

    I'll like to kick up the dust a bit here. I am not a wedding photographer. From a consumer perspective, I will reject a mirrorless for the below reasons:

    - I expect more colour information and details to be captured. So the bigger sensor size, the better. I also do not expect noise on my beautiful bride so ISO has to be able to support dim conditions.
    - limited lenses. Are the lenses in the same resolution or together with the camera able to generate creative shots like the Canikons. I have seen some wonderful creative pre-wedding with TS-E, UWA, f1.2 lenses. I do not want the gears to limit what the photographer can do. End up all the photos looked like any other weddings.
    - I definitely do want critical moments to be captured with faster AF systems. Let's face it, even if someone is to manual focus with a Leica for 2 hours, it will not be as effective as having AF, fastest possible AF. The look, the expression, the moment gone is gone. I want the photographer to be best equipped to capture these moments. Imagine the EVF lagging.
    - The label as pro camera. So far no mirrorless has marketed themselves as pro usage. Some of my guests are carrying mirrorless to the wedding. Unlikely anyone will carry a FF DSLR. Then they will joked that I got no money to engage proper photographer? Loss of face.

    Basically, identical points mentioned by Blur Shadow. Just my opinions.
    hate to tell u this, but mirrorless performance nowadays are very good

    look at the om-d, it's ISO performance easily rivals some of the dslr, and it's jpeg output is good too.

    u say limited lenses??? i think u got the whole point wrong.
    with the many different adaptors out there in the market, i would say the choice of lenses might even out-rival canon/nikon...a m4/3 mirrorless do not necessary only use lenses from it's own manufacturers...end of the day, the camera doesn't know how to compose an image, it's the photographer who is the brain behind the glasses.

    EVF lagging????? i certainly do not c this on om-d.not an issue.

    manual focusing vs auto focusing...AF speed on mirrorless are fast nowadays. go try the om-d. u will b surprised, this is what i gain from ur post.
    but with this point, my concern is not on speed, but on the consistent ability of the photographer to constantly shoot photographes with the right focus for whole day

    the label is the 1 thing that we can't change..........
    Stirring up emotions with pics - cyliew

  7. #27
    Moderator nitewalk's Avatar
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    Default Re: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by ijnek View Post
    hate to tell u this, but mirrorless performance nowadays are very good

    look at the om-d, it's ISO performance easily rivals some of the dslr, and it's jpeg output is good too.

    u say limited lenses??? i think u got the whole point wrong.
    with the many different adaptors out there in the market, i would say the choice of lenses might even out-rival canon/nikon...a m4/3 mirrorless do not necessary only use lenses from it's own manufacturers...end of the day, the camera doesn't know how to compose an image, it's the photographer who is the brain behind the glasses.

    EVF lagging????? i certainly do not c this on om-d.not an issue.

    manual focusing vs auto focusing...AF speed on mirrorless are fast nowadays. go try the om-d. u will b surprised, this is what i gain from ur post.
    but with this point, my concern is not on speed, but on the consistent ability of the photographer to constantly shoot photographes with the right focus for whole day

    the label is the 1 thing that we can't change..........
    I, too, found the jpeg output from OMD very decent and the high ISO performance is fantastic. I remembered using up to 3200 and not much of issue with noise and only some slight noise coming in by 6400 iirc. However, I still found the AF speed of OMD in low light still less than satisfactory. Perhaps we do have a bit of reverse discrimination here in a sense we do give more allowance to a camera with smaller sensor and feel that this is good, subconsiously it is because it is not a dslr. Perhaps. We always talk so much about the brain behind the camera, the person behind the camera, the limiting factor is the photographer but that is all on paper in talking, how many can really achieve fantastic shots and be THE man behind the camera?

    I don't have a doubt on the suitability of a mirrorless system though, in situations where it is very cramp and space may be an issue especially for those huge FF cameras.

  8. #28

    Default Re: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

    I think it's ok if a person shoot a wedding photo using Sony RX1. Full frame sensor, 35mm F2.0 CZ lens. Not bad la. Time of mirrorless camera is changing.

  9. #29

    Default Re: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

    Photo hobbyists arguing about equipment...

    Should move the thread to general tech, not photo biz...

  10. #30
    Member/Tangshooter Redsun's Avatar
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    Default Re: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyep View Post
    What's wrong with mirrorless? I do use them to shoot weddings, heck even a MF. It's called Leica.

    It's stupid to judge a photographer by their gears, judge them by the work they produce. You judge hobbyist by their gears.
    hehe i've shot some ROMs with Leica too
    high 5^

  11. #31

    Default Re: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by ManWearPants View Post
    seems like general consensus approves of using mirrorless for wedding shoots.

    I'll like to kick up the dust a bit here. I am not a wedding photographer. From a consumer perspective, I will reject a mirrorless for the below reasons:

    - I expect more colour information and details to be captured. So the bigger sensor size, the better. I also do not expect noise on my beautiful bride so ISO has to be able to support dim conditions.
    - limited lenses. Are the lenses in the same resolution or together with the camera able to generate creative shots like the Canikons. I have seen some wonderful creative pre-wedding with TS-E, UWA, f1.2 lenses. I do not want the gears to limit what the photographer can do. End up all the photos looked like any other weddings.
    - I definitely do want critical moments to be captured with faster AF systems. Let's face it, even if someone is to manual focus with a Leica for 2 hours, it will not be as effective as having AF, fastest possible AF. The look, the expression, the moment gone is gone. I want the photographer to be best equipped to capture these moments. Imagine the EVF lagging.
    - The label as pro camera. So far no mirrorless has marketed themselves as pro usage. Some of my guests are carrying mirrorless to the wedding. Unlikely anyone will carry a FF DSLR. Then they will joked that I got no money to engage proper photographer? Loss of face.

    Basically, identical points mentioned by Blur Shadow. Just my opinions.
    LOLZ.
    Stop equipment specs wanking.

    I've seen pics shot with Leica Ms and Fuji x100/xp1/xe1 that equal/surpass stuff shot with FF/crop SLRs.

  12. #32
    Member/Tangshooter Redsun's Avatar
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    Default Re: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

    btw just to share,

    here's a wedding photog who shoots with Leicas
    pretty nice imho
    Collection: WEDDING

  13. #33

    Default Re: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

    Whole bunch of wedding with xp1:
    Fuji X-Pro1 | Scoop.it

  14. #34

    Default Re: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

    Eh, like what bro JasonB say this become a equipment debate.

    As a photographer, we choose what we want to use to get our work done properly. Different camera systems offer different usage.

    Of course, there is another thing about brand image. As perception, is not correct for clients not to worry about their photographer turn up with point and shoot, unless of course the clients already know this.

    Uninform General public only consider Canon or Nikon to be the camera that pro use and it proof nothing but brilliant marketing of the two camera manufacturer.

    Anyway, yes mirrorless has grown to a point that the quality can match the dslr or sometimes even better as far as noise performance goes. There are still things why some choose to shoot with larger sensor dslr.

    The question is not really where it can or should, but really about how you manage your clients expectation and carry yourself during the wedding. Yes, people will still judge you regardless of what you do, but do you allow them to judge you? Or do you do what you do best, be polite and smile. At a wedding, as a photographer your job is to record the wedding, doing your best with best behavior will win you more clients then going into any debate with guest.

    As from business stand point, if you can shoot all weddings with mirrorless and do absolutely amazing job and continue to prove yourself being one of worthy photographer. I can assure you that you will be the talk of the town and yes, it will be good for business.

    Do note, even with the fastest AF, you won't get the moment without knowing when it will come. I always believe, great moment is lost if you see it with your eyes. As a good photographer, you should be able to anticipate that.

    Regards,

    Hart

  15. #35
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Default Re: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

    Aiyoh all these gear talk... a good photographer should be able to shoot the entire wedding with the client's compact camera.

  16. #36
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

    a 5 days old thread in the Photo biz,
    so far 253 members viewing this thread
    having 1162 view counts,
    out of 36 post,
    the keywords "business" appear 10 times in the whole thread, (2 is repeated in the quote, so not counting)
    and only 3 members mention it including myself. (Hart 3 time, Blur shadow 1 time and myself 8 times)

    Haiz......................

    Thread moved.
    Last edited by catchlights; 4th January 2013 at 05:22 PM.
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  17. #37
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    Default

    Why move the thread? This topic will inevitably invite gear talks. However, what is more important is we allow both photographers and clients to express their PoV freely and amicably.

    Me, as a customer, will select a dslr photographer given a choice now. The decision has more to do with risk management. How much more profit the photographer can squeeze out of using a mirrorless is least of my concern as this is not passed down to me. Even if the cost is lower to me, it is a lifetime event for me, I would still insist the main photographer to be on a pro dslr. I don't mind the second photographer doing table shoots on mirrorless. Unless there is something the mirrorless photographer can do that the dslr photographer cannot.

  18. #38

    Default Re: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by ManWearPants View Post
    Why move the thread? This topic will inevitably invite gear talks. However, what is more important is we allow both photographers and clients to express their PoV freely and amicably.

    Me, as a customer, will select a dslr photographer given a choice now. The decision has more to do with risk management. How much more profit the photographer can squeeze out of using a mirrorless is least of my concern as this is not passed down to me. Even if the cost is lower to me, it is a lifetime event for me, I would still insist the main photographer to be on a pro dslr. I don't mind the second photographer doing table shoots on mirrorless. Unless there is something the mirrorless photographer can do that the dslr photographer cannot.
    I think so far, I have heard people screw up others wedding with DSLR then with mirrorless.

    To be entirely honest, from my point of view, I could use nex 7 plus 50 lux to get better candid shot then I could with bit hasselblad. The reason is simple, small package allow photographer to be invisible.

    With DSLR, personally, I have a lot less keeper then if I shoot with slower camera system, the reason is simple, I spend more time getting the shots... In portrait environment, my typical shoot will yield about 50+ shots that I show my clients. I will shoot anything between 180-220 shots on DSLR to get that amount. I would should about 80-90 shots on my Leica M or H4D to yield the same number of shots. Shooting with DSLR do make like a lot easier as compare with slower system, so I tend to shoot more. If you think of it, it really makes no different if I shoot with NEX 7 with Leica lens on it.

    I shot a couple shoots with NEX7 and my experience is, I can shoot less and getting less tired while maintaining the quality or in some cases improve the quality for my clients, simply because I have less weight on me. Trust me, a happy photographer will always results in better shot with mirrorless then a tired and unhappy photographer with D800. Same photographer, just different mood.

    As a consumer, you need to understand that photographers works the best when they are in their zone. To be their zone, it is really best for clients to work with them to achieve best result. I am not saying this in the extreme end and we do respect and appreciate clients business, just need to see it from photographers' perspective sometimes.

    Regards,

    Hart

  19. #39

    Default Re: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by keithwee View Post
    I'd be fine with it, and i'm sure if u r into photography u'll most probably understand that mirror-less cameras nowadays aren't much that diff from the high end cameras. Off-hand i can count at least 5 bros who dumped their full frames/high-end DLSRs for the OMD (pls, not wanting to make any offence here - apologies if u're offended)

    I'd be more particular with the skills of the photographer and spend more time looking at his portfolio than his camera. Foxshade's example makes a lot of sense. Give an amateur a D3 and i don't think the person even can use it properly.
    Count me in, I'm trying to dump mine

  20. #40

    Default Re: wedding photographer uses mirrorless camera?

    Something which has always been a question in my mind is what do you folks think of OM-D (micro four thirds) and Sony Nex series which is APS-C or even Samsung NX1000 also APS-C?

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