AF on F4, F5 & F100

windraider · 9th March 2005

I'm getting a little annoyed by the sluggish AF and amount of hunting by my F80 and am wondering what level of improvement would there be on a F4, F5 and F100 in:

1) a low light or low contrast environment?

2) shutter lag in Single AF mode?

3) coping/ getting focus lock on randomly moving objects like children in a playground?

4) ability to optimise use of AF-S or VR lenses?

Anybody have done any comparisions?

ericp · 9th March 2005

Can only share experience between F80 & F100 (don't have F4 or F5) ... F100 focusing motor has more torque than F80, so things seem to snap into focus. Even when hunting, it's faster. The effect is lessened when using AF-S lenses, but perhaps still noticeable.

Shutter lag not a problem for me, but obviously the F100 feels faster as it can lock on faster. But sometimes the slow film advance of the F80 is good ... I've spun off 2-3 extra frames accidentally when leaving my finger on the shutter button longer than I should.

iwan · 9th March 2005

yes. i can feel the difference between f100/f5 and f80 in low light situation.
especially in f100/f5 i still can use the left and right AF point (where the cross sensors are) in the low light, whereas for the f80 it was difficult.

the difference between f100 and f5 would be the motor that drives the AF lens, I can feel more power on the f5. but if you use af-s lens, i don't think there is much differences between f100 and f5.

never tried f4. i used to have f90x, my opinion the AF is slightly better f80; motor drive seems to be more solid than f80, but only 1 AF point, doesn't VR features, only M and S mode for G lens.

my two cents worth..

user111 · 9th March 2005

F100 AF on movin subject, using nikkor AF-D lens, is quite fast and responsive.

the f4 has only one AF point and the autofocus is slow. not worth it.

icarus · 9th March 2005

My F100 works well with HSM and AF-S. Focus is super quick and spot on.
Dunno whether is it me or what, but eversince i got the MB-15 battery pack, focusing seems a tad quicker!

zmwang · 9th March 2005

Originally Posted by icarus

Dunno whether is it me or what, but eversince i got the MB-15 battery pack, focusing seems a tad quicker!

I think it is only you lah. My MB-15 with F100 is the same as F100.

windraider · 10th March 2005

Thanks for all your replies - more questions though:
1) How obvious is the AF speed difference between the F100 vs F5 when compared say against the difference between the F80 vs F100?

2) I read on Ken Rockwell's website that his F100 expriences focusing errors with some lenses - why is this so.

Additionally what is the incidence of focusing errors for either the F80, F4 or F5?

3) In what instances/circumstances does the metering of the F5 have an advantage over that of the F100?

szekiat · 10th March 2005

1. The F5 is quite a bit faster than the F100 if u ask me. eVen though they use the same af CAM, the F5 motor probably has more power. Difference with AFS lenses is negligible. I find the 80-200AFD faster than the SIGMA HSM on the F5. the difference is not as great as that between the f80 and f100
2. The first batch of F100 had problems with the center AF spot, it seemed to be a bit to the left if i'm not mistaken. The spot meter was also a bit off. Later examples seem fine. Focusing errors will always occur, esp in low light. No AF system is perfect. No idea on the rate though.
3. I find with the F5 i don't have to correct for white and black backgrounds. The color matrix metering does seem to do a much better job than the F100. That said, it consumes heck a lot more battery power. F5 eats batteries for tea.

F5user · 10th March 2005

Ok from what i can remember.. the f4 is well, not as fast as the f100 or f5, with only 1 af sensor i think... (long time since i used my f4).. i would say that perhaps it's somewhat around a f90's speed?

For the f100 with an mb... it's good.. respectable, same cam as the f5, but not as much power as the f5... performance wise on the afs lenses is perhaps 90% as fast as the f5, with ok ok tracking of fast subjects.. i mean, 8 - 9.5 fps (f5)vs 6 fps... the focus tracking on the f5 has to be a bit faster to keep up with that rate of fire. .

Now the f5... don't even THINK about going there.. in me lil opinion, it's different... TONS of torque compared to the f100 with an MB.. load up an f5 with 08 x 2300 mah batteries... and u basically FEEL the camera jerkiing while focusing with a 300f4. Continuous tracking of fast objects is amazingly better than the f100 too, and also .. yeah.. back to torque.. i've already run through 2 nikon 50 1.8s,and a whole lot of sigma primes with my stupid f5 tearing through the focusing pinion of those lenses... apparently i figured that 2300mah batteries arn't too good with the motor as it gives it kinda too much torque..

Metering wise, the f5 uses the RGB sensor, so i don't really have to use a gray card when metering tricky situations... much more accurate than the f100 if u ask me..

iwan · 10th March 2005

Originally Posted by F5user

i've already run through 2 nikon 50 1.8s,and a whole lot of sigma primes with my stupid f5 tearing through the focusing pinion of those lenses...

i guess you haven't seen kenrockwell's warning:
3.) Speed. The AF motor in the F5 is brutally fast, and the AF-S motor driver is also beastly. It probably can rip a discount lens like a Sigma to shreds.
http://kenrockwell.com/nikon/f5.htm

cheers

Ian · 11th March 2005

Here's my views, based on direct comprarisons of the F4s, F5, F100 and a few other Nikon film based SLR's.

F100. Reasonably quick AF speeds, low light performance a is better than the F4s, doesn't hunt as much with non AFS lenses. Lower torque than the F4 and F5 so doesn't shred cheap lenses. Non AFS performance is similar to the F4s in many lighting conditions though it hunts less.

F4s - A lot quicker AF than most folks realise. Single spot AF sensor is no slouch with larger lenses as the AF motor is very beefy and has loads of torgue. It can spin a 300/2.8 AFn-D almost as fast as an AFS version in good lighting conditions. Low lighting conditions with consumer grade Nikkors or 3rd party lenses is suicidal, the body is a professional body and the AF really hunts badly unless you are using fast glass. Even professional glass won't stop it hunting in some cases. It can get confused and hunt in some high brightness, low contrast (background to foreground) situtions. Af performance varies with battery pack configuration on the F4. The F4s delivers the best bang for the buck.

The AF motor can and will strip pinions on cheap lenses.

F5 - Very quick on most any lens, be it AFS or non AFS. The only exception is the 105/2.8 Micro Nikkor which is a dead slow AF'er regardless of camera body. Non AFS lenses are brutally focused and I've seen a couple of Sigma and Cosina lenses die horrible deaths from the F5. Tamron and Tokina's are heavier constructed and seem capable of withstanding the excesses of the AF system. Low level light can bring on the occasional bout of hunting, but it's got to be godawful lighting eg: 1/10 at f2.8 @ 1600 ISO or worse. The F5 AF sensors sometimes find it very difficult to deal with all red targets moving at speed with long lenses (race cars). Thie F5 is brutal when it slams a lens in to the focusi limiters.

F90 series: I was surprised at how well the F90 performed. It's AF speed wasn't that slow, nor was it exceptional. Seems to handle slower glass better than the F4s, but is noticably slower on big non AFS glass. This is due to a less torquey motor than the F4 series.

F80: Not bad for a consumer grade body, but not in the league with the professional Nikon F series bodies (F4, F5). Slower AF than the F100. Wasn't sluggish even with long glass, but was noticably slower in AF over the full focusing range of big lenses.

It should be remembered that AF speed is not a panacea for all your AF focusing requirments, good techniques and judicious use of the AF limiter switch (range) and knowing the limits of your AF system can and will increase the performance of slower AF equipped cameras.

windraider · 29th March 2005

OK so I understand that in terms of AF speed;

F5 fastest followed by F100 then F4.
But how does F90 compare against F80?

Also why the punishing impact of F4 & F5 on lighter lenses?
Shouldn't the AF stop at the correct focusing distance rather than when the focusing ring reaches the end?

Ian · 29th March 2005

Originally Posted by windraider

OK so I understand that in terms of AF speed;

F5 fastest followed by F100 then F4.
But how does F90 compare against F80?

F90 is faster than the F80. Under bright light testing the F100 and F4s have almost identical times focusing most lenses, though the F100 is less prone to focusing errors. The F4s is superior with big non AFS lenses however as the F4s has a higher torque motor.

Originally Posted by windraider

Also why the punishing impact of F4 & F5 on lighter lenses?
Shouldn't the AF stop at the correct focusing distance rather than when the focusing ring reaches the end?

The reason is that the F4 and F5 use very torquey motors that spin at higher RPM than the amateur bodies. The also decelerate faster which when combined with the torque places additional strain on the 'screwdriver' focusing mount and pinion gears in the lens.

9th March 2005	#1
windraider Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 211	AF on F4, F5 & F100 I'm getting a little annoyed by the sluggish AF and amount of hunting by my F80 and am wondering what level of improvement would there be on a F4, F5 and F100 in: 1) a low light or low contrast environment? 2) shutter lag in Single AF mode? 3) coping/ getting focus lock on randomly moving objects like children in a playground? 4) ability to optimise use of AF-S or VR lenses? Anybody have done any comparisions?

9th March 2005	#5
icarus Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pasir Ris Posts: 3,234	My F100 works well with HSM and AF-S. Focus is super quick and spot on. Dunno whether is it me or what, but eversince i got the MB-15 battery pack, focusing seems a tad quicker! __________________ Ricoh GR Digital, Minolta Hi-matic 7SII

10th March 2005	#9
F5user Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: B.Timah, New york, SoCal. Posts: 834	Ok from what i can remember.. the f4 is well, not as fast as the f100 or f5, with only 1 af sensor i think... (long time since i used my f4).. i would say that perhaps it's somewhat around a f90's speed? For the f100 with an mb... it's good.. respectable, same cam as the f5, but not as much power as the f5... performance wise on the afs lenses is perhaps 90% as fast as the f5, with ok ok tracking of fast subjects.. i mean, 8 - 9.5 fps (f5)vs 6 fps... the focus tracking on the f5 has to be a bit faster to keep up with that rate of fire. . Now the f5... don't even THINK about going there.. in me lil opinion, it's different... TONS of torque compared to the f100 with an MB.. load up an f5 with 08 x 2300 mah batteries... and u basically FEEL the camera jerkiing while focusing with a 300f4. Continuous tracking of fast objects is amazingly better than the f100 too, and also .. yeah.. back to torque.. i've already run through 2 nikon 50 1.8s,and a whole lot of sigma primes with my stupid f5 tearing through the focusing pinion of those lenses... apparently i figured that 2300mah batteries arn't too good with the motor as it gives it kinda too much torque.. Metering wise, the f5 uses the RGB sensor, so i don't really have to use a gray card when metering tricky situations... much more accurate than the f100 if u ask me.. Last edited by F5user; 10th March 2005 at 11:28 PM.

11th March 2005	#11
Ian Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Perth Australia Posts: 2,332	Here's my views, based on direct comprarisons of the F4s, F5, F100 and a few other Nikon film based SLR's. F100. Reasonably quick AF speeds, low light performance a is better than the F4s, doesn't hunt as much with non AFS lenses. Lower torque than the F4 and F5 so doesn't shred cheap lenses. Non AFS performance is similar to the F4s in many lighting conditions though it hunts less. F4s - A lot quicker AF than most folks realise. Single spot AF sensor is no slouch with larger lenses as the AF motor is very beefy and has loads of torgue. It can spin a 300/2.8 AFn-D almost as fast as an AFS version in good lighting conditions. Low lighting conditions with consumer grade Nikkors or 3rd party lenses is suicidal, the body is a professional body and the AF really hunts badly unless you are using fast glass. Even professional glass won't stop it hunting in some cases. It can get confused and hunt in some high brightness, low contrast (background to foreground) situtions. Af performance varies with battery pack configuration on the F4. The F4s delivers the best bang for the buck. The AF motor can and will strip pinions on cheap lenses. F5 - Very quick on most any lens, be it AFS or non AFS. The only exception is the 105/2.8 Micro Nikkor which is a dead slow AF'er regardless of camera body. Non AFS lenses are brutally focused and I've seen a couple of Sigma and Cosina lenses die horrible deaths from the F5. Tamron and Tokina's are heavier constructed and seem capable of withstanding the excesses of the AF system. Low level light can bring on the occasional bout of hunting, but it's got to be godawful lighting eg: 1/10 at f2.8 @ 1600 ISO or worse. The F5 AF sensors sometimes find it very difficult to deal with all red targets moving at speed with long lenses (race cars). Thie F5 is brutal when it slams a lens in to the focusi limiters. F90 series: I was surprised at how well the F90 performed. It's AF speed wasn't that slow, nor was it exceptional. Seems to handle slower glass better than the F4s, but is noticably slower on big non AFS glass. This is due to a less torquey motor than the F4 series. F80: Not bad for a consumer grade body, but not in the league with the professional Nikon F series bodies (F4, F5). Slower AF than the F100. Wasn't sluggish even with long glass, but was noticably slower in AF over the full focusing range of big lenses. It should be remembered that AF speed is not a panacea for all your AF focusing requirments, good techniques and judicious use of the AF limiter switch (range) and knowing the limits of your AF system can and will increase the performance of slower AF equipped cameras. __________________ The Ang Moh from Hell Last edited by Ian; 11th March 2005 at 03:04 PM.

29th March 2005	#12
windraider Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 211	F90 vs F80 OK so I understand that in terms of AF speed; F5 fastest followed by F100 then F4. But how does F90 compare against F80? Also why the punishing impact of F4 & F5 on lighter lenses? Shouldn't the AF stop at the correct focusing distance rather than when the focusing ring reaches the end?

9th March 2005	#2
ericp Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 577	Can only share experience between F80 & F100 (don't have F4 or F5) ... F100 focusing motor has more torque than F80, so things seem to snap into focus. Even when hunting, it's faster. The effect is lessened when using AF-S lenses, but perhaps still noticeable. Shutter lag not a problem for me, but obviously the F100 feels faster as it can lock on faster. But sometimes the slow film advance of the F80 is good ... I've spun off 2-3 extra frames accidentally when leaving my finger on the shutter button longer than I should.

9th March 2005	#3
iwan Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: kiwi land Posts: 162	yes. i can feel the difference between f100/f5 and f80 in low light situation. especially in f100/f5 i still can use the left and right AF point (where the cross sensors are) in the low light, whereas for the f80 it was difficult. the difference between f100 and f5 would be the motor that drives the AF lens, I can feel more power on the f5. but if you use af-s lens, i don't think there is much differences between f100 and f5. never tried f4. i used to have f90x, my opinion the AF is slightly better f80; motor drive seems to be more solid than f80, but only 1 AF point, doesn't VR features, only M and S mode for G lens. my two cents worth..

9th March 2005	#4
user111 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,719	F100 AF on movin subject, using nikkor AF-D lens, is quite fast and responsive. the f4 has only one AF point and the autofocus is slow. not worth it.

10th March 2005	#8
szekiat Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London Posts: 2,378	1. The F5 is quite a bit faster than the F100 if u ask me. eVen though they use the same af CAM, the F5 motor probably has more power. Difference with AFS lenses is negligible. I find the 80-200AFD faster than the SIGMA HSM on the F5. the difference is not as great as that between the f80 and f100 2. The first batch of F100 had problems with the center AF spot, it seemed to be a bit to the left if i'm not mistaken. The spot meter was also a bit off. Later examples seem fine. Focusing errors will always occur, esp in low light. No AF system is perfect. No idea on the rate though. 3. I find with the F5 i don't have to correct for white and black backgrounds. The color matrix metering does seem to do a much better job than the F100. That said, it consumes heck a lot more battery power. F5 eats batteries for tea.