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Thread: Photography?

  1. #41
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    Default Re: my pics

    Originally posted by langzi
    dear ppl,

    with reference to someone who said that i never used a digital cam before, i wld like to state that these are the few digital cams i've played with:
    1) Canon PowerShot G1
    2) Canon PowerShot S40
    3) Canon EOS 1N+ Kodak Digital pack DCS 2000
    4) Nikon F5+ Kodak Digital pack DCS 760

    i've tried them out, and yes, they were good, but to a certain extent. with regards to the last 2, i wld love to say that they are the best digital cam i've used, as compared to the first 2.
    Just a note that that is a very unfair comparison. Obviously #3 and #4 are WAY better compared to #1 and #2. They are of totally different classes. The price difference is also manyfold. Obviously, once you have tried the last 2, the first 2 will feel lacking. After all, they are only consumer digicams.

    Regards
    CK

  2. #42
    cliveming
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    IMO, taking photo by using the Digital CAM, is losing the meaning of arts in photography, but nowadays, digital CAM too popular for ppl who interested in taking photo, the reason is that it is very convenience, just take the photo, if no good then delete it immediately, then take again, save cost. Furthermore, for those who own laptop/notebook, they can directly tranfer to their HD, then send through Email to their friends, how much time need to complete this process, very fast rite, but if using tradional film camera, you need to take all the 12/24/36 expose film then take it to shop and process it, then print out the photo, need a lot of time and need some money to process film and photo.
    To me, i prefer film photo, coz last time i trying use my friend's digital CAM, no need to set anything then take directly.
    But actually, if like the photo you take then it is ok liao, no need to consider the meaning of art or others, the meaning is wat u take in the photo, and not the photo in the arts.

  3. #43
    cliveming
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    Default Re: my pics

    Originally posted by langzi
    dear ppl,

    as you all wld have kown by now, i am a die hard manual user. therefore, i wld not have pics in digital form, cos i dont have a scanner too. i intend get one soon, probably by the end of this mth.

    i wld like to clarify that i am not condemning digital cam, but if a good piece of equipment were to be put into good use, then yes, it is good.

    cheers,
    leonard
    I prefer to take B/W photo, then process the film in darkroom, then process the photo in the darkroom myself, although i have already 2 ++ years din touch about those kind of Darkroom device, but if have a chance, i still like to process my own film and photo myself, coz i like the red bulb life of the darkroom.

  4. #44

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    I prefer to take digital colour picture any old how, worry only about composition and capturing the moment, not about what aperture or what speed (unless I want certain effects). Then process in Photoshop until I get it exactly the way I want. Whether colour or B&W, high key or low key, high contrast or soft focus. I decide later. Not on the spot.

    Art? Not Art?

  5. #45
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    Default

    Originally posted by cliveming
    IMO, taking photo by using the Digital CAM, is losing the meaning of arts in photography,
    i see. so anything involving modern concepts and contraptions is not art, and that includes using digital cameras to capture still, artsy images.

    let's see, so modern dance is not art, cos it's too modern. I mean, why bother right? Who's the idiot who came up with all those fancy moves? why do pple even bother with multimedia elements in theatrical performances right? i mean, that's soooo tradition breaking, it's unacceptable! Why did the production of Judah Ben Hur use multimedia elements?? Urgh! Totally destroys the story, however good it is.

    Speaking of that, I think we should start clamping down on those National Art Council affliated groups, like for example, oh, the PERKAMUS (Association of Malay Singers, Composers & Professional Musicians). Please lah, if u can't use traditional instruments, you're not doing art correctly!

    Oh, i almost forgot. The Singapore Arts Festival is coming soon. We should let them know wat arts is all about, so that they do it correctly, OUR way, in according to what WE think ART is.

    there, i feel better already.
    David Teo
    View my work and blog at http://www.5stonesphoto.com/blog

  6. #46
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    Default

    Originally posted by cliveming
    IMO, taking photo by using the Digital CAM, is losing the meaning of arts in photography, but nowadays, digital CAM too popular for ppl who interested in taking photo, the reason is that it is very convenience, just take the photo, if no good then delete it immediately, then take again, save cost. Furthermore, for those who own laptop/notebook, they can directly tranfer to their HD, then send through Email to their friends, how much time need to complete this process, very fast rite, but if using tradional film camera, you need to take all the 12/24/36 expose film then take it to shop and process it, then print out the photo, need a lot of time and need some money to process film and photo.
    To me, i prefer film photo, coz last time i trying use my friend's digital CAM, no need to set anything then take directly.
    But actually, if like the photo you take then it is ok liao, no need to consider the meaning of art or others, the meaning is wat u take in the photo, and not the photo in the arts.
    Let me repeat myself again. Digital and film are just mediums for storing that photograph, that captured moment in time. It does NOT dictate how you use the camera.

    Unfortunately, to so many people, the term "digital camera" has come to be associated with the point and shoot digital cameras which offers no control whatsoever (except perhaps composition). Contrary to popular belief, digital is not necessarily cheaper. You need to factor in the time taken to process the digital images yourself as well. It's cheaper mainly because now you only need to print what you like, as opposed to printing the whole roll.

    Your friend's digital camera probably belongs to what's known as the "consumer" class of digital cameras, which offers you no control. The statement "..last time i trying use my friend's digital CAM, no need to set anything then take directly. " does not make sense. I can give you a Nikon F5, Canon EOS 1V, Minolta Dynax 9 etc and you can also "no need to set anything then take directly". It's not a digital camera issue. It's the TYPE of camera used. To slam digital just like that is being very unfair and only shows the lack of knowledge on digital photography in general.

    Yes, digital does offer many advantages in the "instant gratification" department, etc. But in no way does digital differ a lot from film in the picture taking process. No doubt it gives the photographer free-rein in the picture taking process, some rules of traditional film photography must still be followed. Exposure, composition, lighting, etc must all be properly taken care of. Yes, many amateurs adopt the "never mind, I can use photoshop to edit later", and the "If I don't like I can delete" attitude, but that does not mean digital as a whole is no good. Might as well say the point and shoot film cameras killed photography as well. And we must not forget that it is this very ability to delete shots that you do not like and to shoot a lot that lets the photographer have multiple chances to try daring techniques and see its effect on the spot, without having to have the fear of wasting film.

    Many traditional film shooters are just too possessive of the technology that they become skeptical, that's all. Like I mentioned before, what matters at the end of the day is the OUTPUT. The medium and the equipment should not be part of this at all.

    Digital has come a long way. Professional digital cameras now has quality that can easily beat 35mm film when enlarged to 10x15". It's time to move on. About the only thing film is still superior is in B&W and ultra long time exposures.

    Regards
    CK

  7. #47
    cliveming
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    Originally posted by Red Dawn


    i see. so anything involving modern concepts and contraptions is not art, and that includes using digital cameras to capture still, artsy images.

    let's see, so modern dance is not art, cos it's too modern. I mean, why bother right? Who's the idiot who came up with all those fancy moves? why do pple even bother with multimedia elements in theatrical performances right? i mean, that's soooo tradition breaking, it's unacceptable! Why did the production of Judah Ben Hur use multimedia elements?? Urgh! Totally destroys the story, however good it is.

    Speaking of that, I think we should start clamping down on those National Art Council affliated groups, like for example, oh, the PERKAMUS (Association of Malay Singers, Composers & Professional Musicians). Please lah, if u can't use traditional instruments, you're not doing art correctly!

    Oh, i almost forgot. The Singapore Arts Festival is coming soon. We should let them know wat arts is all about, so that they do it correctly, OUR way, in according to what WE think ART is.

    there, i feel better already.
    so from wat you feel, then i should correct myself, using digital cam take photo is another kind of art of photography...
    hehehe....thanks.

  8. #48
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    Default

    Originally posted by Red Dawn


    i see. so anything involving modern concepts and contraptions is not art, and that includes using digital cameras to capture still, artsy images.

    let's see, so modern dance is not art, cos it's too modern. I mean, why bother right? Who's the idiot who came up with all those fancy moves? why do pple even bother with multimedia elements in theatrical performances right? i mean, that's soooo tradition breaking, it's unacceptable! Why did the production of Judah Ben Hur use multimedia elements?? Urgh! Totally destroys the story, however good it is.

    Speaking of that, I think we should start clamping down on those National Art Council affliated groups, like for example, oh, the PERKAMUS (Association of Malay Singers, Composers & Professional Musicians). Please lah, if u can't use traditional instruments, you're not doing art correctly!

    Oh, i almost forgot. The Singapore Arts Festival is coming soon. We should let them know wat arts is all about, so that they do it correctly, OUR way, in according to what WE think ART is.

    there, i feel better already.
    So electronic music made by synthesizers, digital pianos, drum machines, electric guitars etc is not music. Yup, it's not, coz it's digitally and electronically generated. Since they are not music, you should not be able to buy them from CD stores? No?

    Regards
    CK

  9. #49
    cliveming
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    Originally posted by ckiang


    It's time to move on. About the only thing film is still superior is in B&W and ultra long time exposures.

    Regards
    CK
    Yeah I agree with you, I still like the Black and white photography.

  10. #50
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    Originally posted by ckiang


    So electronic music made by synthesizers, digital pianos, drum machines, electric guitars etc is not music. Yup, it's not, coz it's digitally and electronically generated. Since they are not music, you should not be able to buy them from CD stores? No?

    Regards
    CK
    Yes you should be able to buy them from CD stores. CD stores don't sell art
    David Teo
    View my work and blog at http://www.5stonesphoto.com/blog

  11. #51
    cliveming
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    cool.

  12. #52
    langzi
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    Default yeah...

    right man cliveming...you're the man...at least i found someone here who shares the same ideas as me...not so bad huh?

    i totally agree with you that most, but not all who uses digital wld adopt the point and shoot mentality. in fact, when i used the G1 last year, i too adopted this kinda mentality.

    to all: tell me honestly. how many digital users dont adopt this mentality? you may say you dont, but how wld i know, so i dont think you'll need to reply to this.

    re PS, i think that in the future, we may not even need to go out and take pics. we just need to use photoshop to put several images together, and tada!! you get a award winning image.


    now, cliveming, i also agree with you that by using digital, we can immediately see the result. gone are the days when we'll wait and rub our hands in anticipation for our pics frm the developer. i think for me, that's half the excitement of photography, whereby you'll wait for the result and swoon over the lovely pic you've taken, and not swoon over it on a small 2 inch LCD screen.

    i admit that i may go digital soon, but i hope that i will be able to keep the mentality of a maunal SLR whilst using it...hopefully...



    cheers,
    leonard

  13. #53
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    I can't help but sense some narrow minded individuals who are either too small or not brave enough to accomodate technological advances and changes. You don't even have to embrace or accept, just accomodate. However, this situation is normal. These people are usually intimidated by changes, other words, they can't handle advances.

    Others have access rights to photography just like you do no matter what medium they use. Who are you to say your method is superior?

    Yes, I'm still using film but digital do look exciting.

  14. #54
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: yeah...

    Originally posted by langzi
    to all: tell me honestly. how many digital users dont adopt this mentality? you may say you dont, but how wld i know, so i dont think you'll need to reply to this.

    re PS, i think that in the future, we may not even need to go out and take pics. we just need to use photoshop to put several images together, and tada!! you get a award winning image.
    Nobody has the obligation to account to you on how they use their cameras. "How would you know?" You don't have to. Who do you think you are? Photography god?

    You obviously haven't lay your hands on Photoshop yet so stop trying to sound smart. It will only reveal your ignorance.

  15. #55

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    The views are getting more extreme.

    Can't help suspecting a troll.

    Anyway, to those who prefer the old ways (or the new ways, for that matter): More power to you.

    Just take those pictures and post them for all of us to enjoy.

    End of discussion as far as I am concerned.

  16. #56
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    Originally posted by Kit
    I can't help but sense some narrow minded individuals who are either too small or not brave enough to accomodate technological advances and changes. You don't even have to embrace or accept, just accomodate. However, this situation is normal. These people are usually intimidated by changes, other words, they can't handle advances.

    Others have access rights to photography just like you do no matter what medium they use. Who are you to say your method is superior?

    Yes, I'm still using film but digital do look exciting.
    You are so right man! For me, I shot film for 14 years, bought a CP950 2 years ago, and went back to film coz I outgrew the Coolpix and can't afford a digital SLR. So I upgraded my SLR instead.

    Regards
    CK

  17. #57
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    Default Re: yeah...

    Originally posted by langzi
    right man cliveming...you're the man...at least i found someone here who shares the same ideas as me...not so bad huh?

    i totally agree with you that most, but not all who uses digital wld adopt the point and shoot mentality. in fact, when i used the G1 last year, i too adopted this kinda mentality.

    to all: tell me honestly. how many digital users dont adopt this mentality? you may say you dont, but how wld i know, so i dont think you'll need to reply to this.

    re PS, i think that in the future, we may not even need to go out and take pics. we just need to use photoshop to put several images together, and tada!! you get a award winning image.


    now, cliveming, i also agree with you that by using digital, we can immediately see the result. gone are the days when we'll wait and rub our hands in anticipation for our pics frm the developer. i think for me, that's half the excitement of photography, whereby you'll wait for the result and swoon over the lovely pic you've taken, and not swoon over it on a small 2 inch LCD screen.

    i admit that i may go digital soon, but i hope that i will be able to keep the mentality of a maunal SLR whilst using it...hopefully...



    cheers,
    leonard
    Ah, I have the ideal camera for you. Get any of the 4x5 large format cameras like the Horsemans, Ebonys, Sinars, Linhofs etc. Everything will then have to be done manually. No meter. No autofocus. No flash. Complete control over your picture.

    Regards
    CK

  18. #58
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    Default Re: yeah...

    Originally posted by langzi
    to all: tell me honestly. how many digital users dont adopt this mentality? you may say you dont, but how wld i know, so i dont think you'll need to reply to this.
    so self professed manual camera expert, now we have to bow down to you and report on our camera usage? Some pple prefer to point and shoot with their digital cameras and take pictures they like, and it bothers you? Oh yes of course, u're the arbiter of all things photography. I forgot!


    now, cliveming, i also agree with you that by using digital, we can immediately see the result. gone are the days when we'll wait and rub our hands in anticipation for our pics frm the developer. i think for me, that's half the excitement of photography, whereby you'll wait for the result and swoon over the lovely pic you've taken, and not swoon over it on a small 2 inch LCD screen.

    i admit that i may go digital soon, but i hope that i will be able to keep the mentality of a maunal SLR whilst using it...hopefully...
    nah....i don't think you should go digital. Honest. This is very sincere. Why bother when you have the ABSOLUTELY thrilling, nail biting and apprehensive time of waiting for your prints to appear, or to come back from the lab? No you won't get that with digital. Worse, the images appear instantly for you to preview! How blasphemous can digital photography get?!?! Absolutely ridiculous way to work........the end of the world must be near, and the Antichrist must be coming!

    Furthermore, it would be pretty hard for anyone to explain to you the inner workings of your brand new digital camera. Heck, with such a small minded view of digital photographers, you would have a hard time taking advice from anyone anyway.

    You will be having a hard time trying to explain to those young punks why it's wrong for them to have fun with their digital cameras. I mean, come on, having fun with digital photography? That's equally decadent isn't it, in this day and age of electronic convenience! Wat is society coming to? How can you have fun with photography, when it's supposed to be sheer hard work and the product of creativity?

    these pple are losing their roots, and i don't think you will want to be part of this decadent generation of photographers! Wait a minute, better not call them photographers. No self respecting true photographer points and shoots with a digital camera!!!!!!!

    it's best for you to stick to your fully manual everything camera. At least over there,you reign supreme. Alone. Nobody wants to touch u anyway, for you will still be using film, and nobody has any to lend you if u run out. And u will be in your right place expounding the virtues of manual photography without modern day aids. U will even get flamed in forums while trying to explain things. i mean, come on, it's not worth it isn't it?

    True, pure photography in its finest form. That's why it's all about. To taint the sanctity of photography with digital technology is pure sacrilegious sin, and as the arbiter of photography, that's the last thing you wanna do!!!!
    David Teo
    View my work and blog at http://www.5stonesphoto.com/blog

  19. #59

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    Hey relax everyone...

    There's enough space in the world for all to live happily together...

    Remember when telephone was invented and some found this great new way of convenience where you don't need to physically meet to talk to each other?? Both still happen, you will still need to meet at times for that personal touch & call when you can't meet.

    How about the email? Come still believe in pen & paper and never believed in writing a love letter in an email ... but would use email for other purposes...

    And the calculator vs abacus, both are still being used, though with 1 is the art of mathematics and the other is just calculation.

    How about the computer??? Well... that's another story altogether....

    Think about it... a newer technology just expands the means of doing things and can ... and do co-exist with traditional ways..

  20. #60

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    Hey, guess what I took today with my old Russian manual focus pinhole camera? Art, isn't it? No digital camera could possibly have taken this shot!


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