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Thread: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

  1. #41
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
    I've ever shot a friend's wedding.
    I got all the photos from everyone including the bridal shop 'pro'. (Friends- D7K; A700; 'pro' - D700; D90)
    I'm not BS-ing you when I tell you that the K5 had the best o/p.
    At the end, my conclusion was that the photographer mattered more than the camera as all of the cameras were good enough for the day.
    For weddings, I'd say while Pentax K5 can deliver the goods, I can see why most professionals will use a Canikon - FF still has the edge over APS-C for high ISO shots, and you get access to all the f/1.4 lenses (24, 35, 85) or faster. You won't always get to set up your flash in time, and well, the high ISO for FF is just so clean, at least 1 stop advantage gained I'd say. So there goes my hopes of having excuse to buy more lenses to share with my wife (she's doing wedding photography nowadays)...

  2. #42

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    OT a bit, I can't help but laugh at the confusion lol!

  3. #43

    Default Re: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iittoo View Post
    If you get the Wr lenses then you will of course need to get filter, because without it..i think it would not be WR fully right?
    Y without filter then it's not Wr ??
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  4. #44
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Supersimon27 View Post
    Y without filter then it's not Wr ??
    I believe this could arise from Canon's requirement for certain "weather-sealed" lenses to have filters to complete the weather-sealing..

    One example is the 16-35 L..

    Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8 L II USM Lens Review

  5. #45
    Senior Member felixcat8888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iittoo View Post
    If you get the Wr lenses then you will of course need to get filter, because without it..i think it would not be WR fully right?
    WR lenses don't need filter to make it extra WR lah.
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  6. #46
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    Default Re: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

    which lens focus the fastest in the current pentax line up btw...that is the lens you should get....sorry im abit detach from photography gears nowadays, now more into hifi ....

    wedding is not just about the best OP... its more about capturing the key moments... with good composition together with good OP of course....

    i dun own a dog... i own 2 children running the whole house... i arm myself with a camera/lens combo that allows me to capture their true innocence expression...that is priceless to me as compare to pose shots...
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  7. #47

    Default Re: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    For weddings, I'd say while Pentax K5 can deliver the goods, I can see why most professionals will use a Canikon - FF still has the edge over APS-C for high ISO shots, and you get access to all the f/1.4 lenses (24, 35, 85) or faster. You won't always get to set up your flash in time, and well, the high ISO for FF is just so clean, at least 1 stop advantage gained I'd say. So there goes my hopes of having excuse to buy more lenses to share with my wife (she's doing wedding photography nowadays)...
    I find that its a bit more because of large user base, giving a perception that only Canikon can make it.
    Also fueled by the fact that FF was indeed much better at high ISO in the recent past.
    Last reason is FF DOF control for half body and up shots at more reasonable working distances.

    In reality, most of the time ISO is at 800 or 1600, at a largish aperture of f2.8-f4 to take in enough of the ambient.
    The rest of the work is done by flash to light the subjects.
    This is for large spaces (halls, churches)
    Fetching of bride, and all the other stuff that happens at homes, ISO200-400 w/ flash is enough.
    So all of the ISO settings are within current aps-c capability.

    There are variants and special conditions of course. (Eg. 'Hao men' (tycoon) dinner outdoors w/ no ceiling or super tall ones or churches that don't allow flash)
    The latter, I don't think exists in S'pore cause our churches are all pretty 'new'

  8. #48
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post

    In reality, most of the time ISO is at 800 or 1600, at a largish aperture of f2.8-f4 to take in enough of the ambient.
    The rest of the work is done by flash to light the subjects.
    This is for large spaces (halls, churches)
    Fetching of bride, and all the other stuff that happens at homes, ISO200-400 w/ flash is enough.
    So all of the ISO settings are within current aps-c capability.

    There are variants and special conditions of course. (Eg. 'Hao men' (tycoon) dinner outdoors w/ no ceiling or super tall ones or churches that don't allow flash)
    The latter, I don't think exists in S'pore cause our churches are all pretty 'new'
    Well there's also dim house lighting and odd timings for HDB weddings (like, real early)... It's not just churches and all that, sometimes with mirrors and a cramped space, using flash will give you a surefire burst of light in the picture that is not wanted... Of course the photograph involves more than just output (like I always say), but different people (read: clients) have different demands... It's not quite the same as shooting for yourself (which is why I won't ever turn this hobby into a job, heh).

    Of course for pre-wedding, you can use any camera, imho.

    Anyways, we're OT, let's head back to the topic proper.
    Last edited by edutilos-; 5th December 2012 at 10:31 PM.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by fengwei View Post
    I like the K30 camera, it's probably the most reponsive camera Pentax ever made so far (feels more responsive even than K5/K5IIs), its AF especially AF tracking speed is still way behind the best cameras from C/N/S camp. K5II can focuse under very low light down to -3EV, but it doesn't mean it focuses any faster than a K30.

    Comparing w the fastest AF cameras from CNS, Pentax still got a long way to catch up, both in cameras and lenses.
    oh? i can see how this means we lag behind in AF-c mode but maybe less so on 1st lock-in focus AF-S mode?

  10. #50

    Default Re: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
    This is what I've tried myself (my own cameras) or what I've tried from friend's cameras and also peeping at wedding shots from 'pros' that I try to obtain from friends.
    In the end, my conclusion is that its a mixed bag.
    Some Canikons are faster in AF (eg. D90; D7k; 7D; D700)
    But they can be faster but so-so in accuracy (eg.D90 )
    Some can be more expensive (7D)
    Others can be more expensive but only as good AF and sometimes it can be poorer (5D; 5DII)
    Many times, they are different lineage and/or priced, so all my comparisons are never truly fair.
    Almost always they win some K5 win some (eg. dynamic range; WS; SR; features; buttons; interface; etc)


    I've ever shot a friend's wedding.
    I got all the photos from everyone including the bridal shop 'pro'. (Friends- D7K; A700; 'pro' - D700; D90)
    I'm not BS-ing you when I tell you that the K5 had the best o/p.
    At the end, my conclusion was that the photographer mattered more than the camera as all of the cameras were good enough for the day.

    Don't believe, you can always arrange with me in advance to bring some of the shots on my tablet during the outings.
    Let me 1st start by saying, I BELIEVE YOU ! The K-5 still manages to surprise me even after a year's ownership. But when anyone offers to show me nice pictures, i seldom decline! So if i can make an outing, i will certainly PM you well beforehand!

    It however frustrates me sometimes too by not locking AF fast enough and accurately enough and i have to thank you for setting out your experiences and comparison. It does let me know where the stock K5 stands in the pack.

    I would say in most phototaking scenarios i encounter, i seldom have an issue. I do have 1 that comes clearly to mind and that is when i'm panning shots of cars (i have done Super GT in Sepang 2 years in a row now) and this is when i get frustrated. On AF-C with Burst mode, the camera sometimes just does not give you a regular sequence of shots. That is frustrating because sometimes you want the car to be in a particular position but the shutter just won't click then. And there are fewer keepers than i had hoped as many do come out blur... I have this problem when i started with a DAL 55-300, then similarly with the Tammy 70-200 and a Sigma 24-70. So i suspect it's the camera and not the lens...

    I don't mix with many photo enthusiasts or have time to compare eqmt, so i had assumed that whilst the Cs, Ns & Ss do AF better, i didn't think i was too far off. Now i realise we do lag behind significantly...

    But like you said, it's the photographer. The best guys can probably manually pre-focus and then take the shot with just the right following panning speed to achieve that perfect in-focused car with blurred tarmac and background

  11. #51
    Member SyncGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSiGuy

    Feng Wei, maybe a little tangential topic but is the K-30 really that slow compared to C/N/S? I would have thought that with the improved AF, it would at least be not too far off from them. Even more so for the K-5IIs given what we have been seeing in reviews... I'm asking because i have never compared how my Pentax DSLRs do against the Cs, Ns & Ss...
    Hi bro... That's nuggets of wisdom for you actually..

    It's slightly slower than the other camp I believe. But rmb, gears and it's capabilities can be bought easily but skill, can never be bought..

    Faster AF, sure... But what of the end result? Think about it..
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  12. #52

    Default Re: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by SyncGuy View Post
    Hi bro... That's nuggets of wisdom for you actually..

    It's slightly slower than the other camp I believe. But rmb, gears and it's capabilities can be bought easily but skill, can never be bought..

    Faster AF, sure... But what of the end result? Think about it..
    Don't worry, not going to clear out my dry cabinet that has burst open with too much Pentax digital and film gear as yet

    But as i mentioned in an earlier post, my bugbear lies with tracking fast moving objects like race cars...

  13. #53
    Senior Member darrrrrrrrrr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

    Shooting active dog photos with Pentax can definitely be done.. Just that because there's no predictive AF tracking, only continuous AF-C, so when there's a lot of erratic near-far movement then the whole deal becomes a bit of a spray-and-pray with a low keeper rate and a lot of out of focus shots.

    Shoot enough and you'll get a few shots which will be in focus, especially if the movement is taking place on the same plane or the dog slows down a bit. But more often you'll end up with shots that are not perfect in focus and the great moments will be spoilt by this technical flaw.. can get quite frustrating during the shoot.


    K-5 Tamron 70-200

    One fine day I tried my photo club's Nikon D300 and 70-200 VR on a dog in a much darker environment and the 51-point predictive AF tracking simply locked on and tracked the dog all the way. I could rely on the AF system to track focus while I focus on watching for the right moments to take the shots in a more controlled and confident manner. Of course, the D300's sensor is crap compared to K-5 so the final output in this instance was let down in terms of horrible noise.


    D300

    I don't find myself in situations shooting dogs freely in action all too often, but I shoot sports far more regularly, and I have the same impression between the two systems when shooting sports as well. Of course, I also completely feel it's more about the photographer than the camera, things like disconnecting the AF function from the half-press and learning how to anticipate action, etc. But some day you will definitely hit a wall with your system as you grow as a photographer if the system is not the right match for your needs.

    Anyway, do think about the pros and cons of each system and see which is best aligned with your needs. If you really are mainly getting a DSLR to take photos of your JRT running around then I really don't think you will be 100% satisfied with the Pentax AF given your specific needs. The differences between the systems are really quite significant.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by felixcat8888 View Post
    WR lenses don't need filter to make it extra WR lah.
    Eh,dun need meh?i always thought need because someone did mention before that we need filter to make the WR lenses fully WR..maybe either that guy is wrong and i learn the wrong info also..haha but till now i did not own any WR lens also..all non WR sadly

  15. #55

    Default Re: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by GSiGuy View Post
    oh? i can see how this means we lag behind in AF-c mode but maybe less so on 1st lock-in focus AF-S mode?
    Our current cameras, K5/K5II/K30 are more than enough for most people in AF-S, but to be honest, we are still quite lagging behind in AF department against the bigger players.

    I agree with all guys said above, it's the photographer not the camera that makes the photo. But when you come to specific needs like fast AF (sports, fast pace events, or running dogs), the best cameras (I mean, the BEST in AF aspect) from CNS are better choices.

    For general users like us, we probably don't need or seldom need super fast AF, then a K5 or K30 is more than capable, even capture nice photos of a running dog. Think about it, when you are taking a fast pace events under dim light, your camera just can't lock focus on the targets fast enough, end up you miss a lot shots, you'd feel very frustrated, especially you really need those shots (for newspaper or whatever reasons).

    Yes, given enough training and practice, we definitely can capture fast action shots even with a Pentax camera like K10D, but it's far easier to capture the same shots w/ much higher keeper ratio when you are using a fast AF camera like 7D, 5DIII, 1Ds... Here I'm talking about AF speed only. Personally I feel a K30 or K5II is fast enough for most kind of photos. But we have to admit that we are still quite lagging behind in AF, especially AF.C.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by darrrrrrrrrr View Post
    Anyway, do think about the pros and cons of each system and see which is best aligned with your needs. If you really are mainly getting a DSLR to take photos of your JRT running around then I really don't think you will be 100% satisfied with the Pentax AF given your specific needs. The differences between the systems are really quite significant.
    Exactly! If you shoot sports or running dogs mostly, get a faster AF camera would be a better option (not some entry level C/N/S cameras).

    Nowadays all cameras are good enough to take fantastic photos. Just get the one suits you better. If you can't take good photos (including photos of a running dog), don't blame the camera, blame yourself instead

    Our Pentax cameras are fast enough to take excellent fast action photos. It's just there are better options out there for this kind of photos. For weddings or indoor events, flash is something you need to consider. That's another area that Pentax needs to catch up.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by GSiGuy View Post

    I would say in most phototaking scenarios i encounter, i seldom have an issue. I do have 1 that comes clearly to mind and that is when i'm panning shots of cars (i have done Super GT in Sepang 2 years in a row now) and this is when i get frustrated. On AF-C with Burst mode, the camera sometimes just does not give you a regular sequence of shots. That is frustrating because sometimes you want the car to be in a particular position but the shutter just won't click then. And there are fewer keepers than i had hoped as many do come out blur... I have this problem when i started with a DAL 55-300, then similarly with the Tammy 70-200 and a Sigma 24-70. So i suspect it's the camera and not the lens...

    I don't mix with many photo enthusiasts or have time to compare eqmt, so i had assumed that whilst the Cs, Ns & Ss do AF better, i didn't think i was too far off. Now i realise we do lag behind significantly...

    But like you said, it's the photographer. The best guys can probably manually pre-focus and then take the shot with just the right following panning speed to achieve that perfect in-focused car with blurred tarmac and background

    You might want to set shutter release in AF-C to release piority in the menu.

    Otherwise, I can't say that I'm a fan of Pentax AF-C.

  18. #58
    Senior Member creampuff's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

    Faster AF with quicker lock-on, predictive AF... these features are the holy grail of DSLRs. The reality is be prepared to pony up serious money to experience the best of what Canikon can offer.
    I've tried the Canon 5D Mk III awhile back and the AF is blindingly quick and even betters the Nikon D800 imo... but these cameras cost quite a bit more that even the best from Pentax. But what's the point of a forking out serious money for a good camera if you got little left to buy decent lenses, which these cameras demand?

    The K-5IIs I have does show improvement over the K-5 and it is much more affordable compared to Canikon so at the end of the day, best to work on the technique rather than expect the equipment to miraculously deliver a great photo. Sure equipment plays a part but it's what's behind the camera that counts.
    Last edited by creampuff; 6th December 2012 at 11:09 AM.

  19. #59

    Default Re: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by creampuff View Post
    Faster AF with quicker lock-on, predictive AF... these features are the holy grail of DSLRs. The reality is be prepared to pony up serious money to experience the best of what Canikon can offer.
    I've tried the Canon 5D Mk III awhile back and the AF is blindingly quick and even betters the Nikon D800 imo... but these cameras cost quite a bit more that even the best from Pentax. But what's the point of a forking out serious money for a good camera if you got little left to buy decent lenses, which these cameras demand?

    The K-5IIs I have does show improvement over the K-5 and it is much more affordable compared to Canikon so at the end of the day, best to work on the technique rather than expect the equipment to miraculously deliver a great photo. Sure equipment plays a part but it's what's behind the camera that counts.
    Nicely said, bro.

    If got money to burn, get the best Canon or Nikon (but be prepared to folk out some serious money). Otherwise go for something like K5II or K30.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Cant make up my mind on the lenses bundle i wish to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
    You might want to set shutter release in AF-C to release piority in the menu.

    Otherwise, I can't say that I'm a fan of Pentax AF-C.
    Thank for the tip!

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