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Thread: HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?

  1. #21
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?

    Quote Originally Posted by keiser View Post
    I am curious on how did you observed and came to the conclusion for the "linking problems to a single person" part? Also, if this is the case, are you implying the cause to what were being described is systemic in nature?
    Like I already mentioned, kiwi2 started off by saying "some former scholars have been charged with corruption"... "Mas Selamat".

    It then became: "Lui Tuck Yew...", "Teo Chee Hean...", "Khaw Boon Wan...", and then "MND minister allowed private developers to build HDB flats by the fanciful name of "DBSS"....". Like I also said, it could be unintentional or just a reading on my part, but I just wanted to share my thoughts on this because it seems to be a trend.

    Short of being involved in any of the debacles discussed, I won't know if the cause is systemic. Logically speaking, any decision made by the Government is a result of work done by the Government - which isn't just politicians, but also civil and public servants. Arguably accountability can rest on the shoulders of leaders, but let's not interpret that this means that the actual process of decision-making involves one person. Cheers.

  2. #22

    Default Re: HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    Like I already mentioned, kiwi2 started off by saying "some former scholars have been charged with corruption"... "Mas Selamat".

    It then became: "Lui Tuck Yew...", "Teo Chee Hean...", "Khaw Boon Wan...", and then "MND minister allowed private developers to build HDB flats by the fanciful name of "DBSS"....". Like I also said, it could be unintentional or just a reading on my part, but I just wanted to share my thoughts on this because it seems to be a trend.

    Short of being involved in any of the debacles discussed, I won't know if the cause is systemic. Logically speaking, any decision made by the Government is a result of work done by the Government - which isn't just politicians, but also civil and public servants. Arguably accountability can rest on the shoulders of leaders, but let's not interpret that this means that the actual process of decision-making involves one person. Cheers.
    i beg to differ. Go or no-go comes right from the top or a particular person. saying that the one's holding the reins is not to be solely to be blamed, is an excuse. then why do we have a authoritative and influential Minister / CEO / Principle / Chief Engineer (not particularly a Minister in this case). they are there to ensure that nothing goes wrong. Personally, we haven't find the correct formula but we also cannot afford to have too many trial and errors. how many mistake can we absorb before we crumple?

    eg. they are the one's sitting in the driver's seat. when they make the wrong turn, the passengers blame themselves for not telling the driver? take in (one's) stride and follow the driver? or sing praises that they all heading the wrong direction? or no complain and let live? or suck thump?

  3. #23
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreaming
    i beg to differ. Go or no-go comes right from the top or a particular person. saying that the one's holding the reins is not to be solely to be blamed, is an excuse. then why do we have a authoritative and influential Minister / CEO / Principle / Chief Engineer (not particularly a Minister in this case). they are there to ensure that nothing goes wrong. Personally, we haven't find the correct formula but we also cannot afford to have too many trial and errors. how many mistake can we absorb before we crumple?

    eg. they are the one's sitting in the driver's seat. when they make the wrong turn, the passengers blame themselves for not telling the driver? take in (one's) stride and follow the driver? or sing praises that they all heading the wrong direction? or no complain and let live? or suck thump?


    Every person involved has a part to play, if you take the attitude that you are just a passenger along for the ride , then please remember that if the driver crashes you will also kena. The driver is not perfect and all-seeing. I certainly hope that this mentality is not a common one, because that would be sad, it means all of the civil and public servants can be replaced with automatons. I reiterate my point that the concept of accountability is separate from what we discuss here. Cheers.
    Last edited by edutilos-; 7th December 2012 at 01:39 PM.

  4. #24
    Member Bukitimah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos-

    Every person involved has a part to play, if you take the attitude that you are just a passenger along for the ride , then please remember that if the driver crashes you will also kena. The driver is not perfect and all-seeing. I certainly hope that this mentality is not a common one, because that would be sad, it means all of the civil and public servants can be replaced with automatons. I reiterate my point that the concept of accountability is separate from what we discuss here. Cheers.
    I totally agree with you that everyone should be interested in hinge that will affect them and not leave them to the government. This is where when the leaders are wrong, we should prompt them and not just sing along.

    Nobody is expecting a perfect leader otherwise he is god and that is another debate. What has worked does not means will continue to work. Do accept the outer circle people and be prepared the listen.

    I laugh when my friend introduced the game squash to me. We played badminton and table tennis regularly together. I told him, why play with the wall so stupid. Try playing the game.

  5. #25

    Default Re: HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?

    Quote Originally Posted by dreaming View Post
    i beg to differ. Go or no-go comes right from the top or a particular person. saying that the one's holding the reins is not to be solely to be blamed, is an excuse. then why do we have a authoritative and influential Minister / CEO / Principle / Chief Engineer (not particularly a Minister in this case). they are there to ensure that nothing goes wrong. Personally, we haven't find the correct formula but we also cannot afford to have too many trial and errors. how many mistake can we absorb before we crumple?

    eg. they are the one's sitting in the driver's seat. when they make the wrong turn, the passengers blame themselves for not telling the driver? take in (one's) stride and follow the driver? or sing praises that they all heading the wrong direction? or no complain and let live? or suck thump?
    first everyone complains that they behave like the Gods of Singapore and running Singapore their way. everyone didn't want them treated like Gods on a pedestal.

    but now, everyone expects them to be perfect. and only Gods are perfect...

    so i don't know what the issue is here.

    damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    and... please... touch your heart and ask yourself if you're a perfect human being. we're all imperfect. who gives us the right to condemn another person for being the same as we are?

  6. #26

    Default Re: HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    first everyone complains that they behave like the Gods of Singapore and running Singapore their way. everyone didn't want them treated like Gods on a pedestal.

    but now, everyone expects them to be perfect. and only Gods are perfect...

    so i don't know what the issue is here.

    damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    and... please... touch your heart and ask yourself if you're a perfect human being. we're all imperfect. who gives us the right to condemn another person for being the same as we are?
    I believe you got it wrong.
    Nobody thinks these guys are gods, or deserve to be treated like gods.
    Problem is these guys think they are, and set themselves up on their own pedestal.
    And of course, when the gods screw up, people will be all too happy to point out their mistakes.

    Remember, these are guys who at one time bragged they are top talents, and went so far to increase their own pay. Nobody else said they are top talents, but since they claimed to be, and are getting the rewards for that, then they better perform.

  7. #27

    Default Re: HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchRival View Post
    I believe you got it wrong.
    Nobody thinks these guys are gods, or deserve to be treated like gods.
    Problem is these guys think they are, and set themselves up on their own pedestal.
    And of course, when the gods screw up, people will be all too happy to point out their mistakes.

    Remember, these are guys who at one time bragged they are top talents, and went so far to increase their own pay. Nobody else said they are top talents, but since they claimed to be, and are getting the rewards for that, then they better perform.
    you misread what i wrote.

  8. #28

    Default Re: HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    Every person involved has a part to play, if you take the attitude that you are just a passenger along for the ride , then please remember that if the driver crashes you will also kena. The driver is not perfect and all-seeing. I certainly hope that this mentality is not a common one, because that would be sad, it means all of the civil and public servants can be replaced with automatons. I reiterate my point that the concept of accountability is separate from what we discuss here. Cheers.
    no, i dont mean the civil and public servants are dispensable, and they have no role to play in this discussion. in this case, whatever the passenger suggest or they keep silent, the driver has the ultimate says and he is behind the steering. he is the deciding factor. when they says everybody has a role to play, that is not real. it happens everywhere, in any organization, corporation and CEO of the company always has the greatest influence. anw, Thanks for sharing your view with me. Cheers.

  9. #29
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?

    Quote Originally Posted by dreaming View Post
    no, i dont mean the civil and public servants are dispensable, and they have no role to play in this discussion. in this case, whatever the passenger suggest or they keep silent, the driver has the ultimate says and he is behind the steering. he is the deciding factor. when they says everybody has a role to play, that is not real. it happens everywhere, in any organization, corporation and CEO of the company always has the greatest influence. anw, Thanks for sharing your view with me. Cheers.
    The head of any organization has the final say, that I agree.

    Along the way, the members of the organization should also do their due dilligence to push for what they feel is right. Borrowing your analogy, the passengers can point out that the driver is going the wrong way, if he is. Of course, if the driver ignores the passengers and proceeds with his own idea, then that's another story. In which case, if anything happens, the driver is to blame. I would like to think that most of the time, decisions made are the result of careful consideration and discussions at various levels, regardless of whether the desired or intended outcome was eventually achieved.

    Thanks for hearing me out!

  10. #30

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    When the committee presented the plan after numerous meetings and brain storming to the Man in charge it is him who is going to approve or reject it. If he makes the wrong decision to approve or reject the plan then we can say that he had made a mistake. He can't blame the committee for presenting the wrong information or a faulty plan. He is there to scrutinise the plan and make a best decision to his ability.

    If he don't have the abilities to make a good decision that the job is not for him. If he somehow had some hidden objective when he made the decision then he had to be removed. Yes, every man make mistakes but he has to own up to his mistake and take responsibilities for it. So far had any TOP party members own up to their mistakes? I wonder what punishment had they receive? No mistake should goes without punishment, be it a light or a heavy punishment. After admitting his mistake and receiving his punishment then he can be considered for being given a 2nd chance, depending on the degree of his mistake.
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  11. #31

    Default Re: HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?

    Quote Originally Posted by airfins View Post
    When the committee presented the plan after numerous meetings and brain storming to the Man in charge it is him who is going to approve or reject it. If he makes the wrong decision to approve or reject the plan then we can say that he had made a mistake. He can't blame the committee for presenting the wrong information or a faulty plan. He is there to scrutinise the plan and make a best decision to his ability.
    Govt types always pretend to seek and value feedback. Yet the top management are usually all involved in groupthink. Why is it Saw Piak Wah brought her friends over from duty free to run smrt? So she can have people she can count on to support her. Essentially transplanting a group engaging in groupthink from one organization to another. Then they all tried to turn smrt into another duty free shop. And that new Desmond fella will likely do the same in future, so he can turn smrt into another saf.


    Quote Originally Posted by airfins View Post
    If he don't have the abilities to make a good decision that the job is not for him. If he somehow had some hidden objective when he made the decision then he had to be removed.
    Alot of these govt types are schorers that do things to further their own careers rather than for the good the organization. Since the promotion cycle for these schorers are 2-4 years, they will execute only short term plans that yield results within that time frame. Long term, the organizations they have headed goes down.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukitimah View Post
    Singaporean are interested in FOOD, then the next best is about how property prices have increased and they have 'made' $.
    Whether the value of my apartment has gone up 2 or 3 times makes no difference to me. Because I can't sell it and live under a coconut tree.

    However I'm thinking of putting in a few double decker beds in my rooms and living room and balcony to rent them out to FTs. Rent money is one of the most immediate returns of my apartment.


  13. #33
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma View Post
    let's set up a political party called Beach Party.
    we will eat and dance and sing / purr under the moonlight.
    No alcohol?

  14. #34
    Member 9V-Orion Images's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchRival View Post
    And that new Desmond fella will likely do the same in future, so he can turn smrt into another saf.
    Already done.





    Lieutenant-General (Retired) Desmond Kuek Bak Chye's trademark cunning grin in action.
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  15. #35
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    Already done.


    Let's welcome the army talents to run this country.

    Our PM an ex-army man has shown that he can run Singapore admirably.

    All SMRT needs is army discipline.

    It was run like a wild beach party before:




  16. #36
    Senior Member Halfmoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    Already done.





    Lieutenant-General (Retired) Desmond Kuek Bak Chye's trademark cunning grin in action.
    Cunning grin........ I would be too if I am a scholar and in a FAIL SAFE ENVIRONMENT.
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  17. #37
    Senior Member Halfmoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Let's welcome the army talents to run this country.

    Our PM an ex-army man has shown that he can run Singapore admirably.

    All SMRT needs is army discipline.

    It was run like a wild beach party before:



    Army discipline???? I feel so SECURED already!!!!
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

  18. #38
    Senior Member Halfmoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Whether the value of my apartment has gone up 2 or 3 times makes no difference to me. Because I can't sell it and live under a coconut tree.

    However I'm thinking of putting in a few double decker beds in my rooms and living room and balcony to rent them out to FTs. Rent money is one of the most immediate returns of my apartment.

    You are a cat too... so easy for you... most cats I see sleep at void deck!!! lol......
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

  19. #39
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Halfmoon View Post
    You are a cat too... so easy for you... most cats I see sleep at void deck!!! lol......
    Void deck is where female cats congregate.

    That's where you hang around.

  20. #40
    Senior Member Halfmoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB & EC going for $1-2 million good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Void deck is where female cats congregate.

    That's where you hang around.
    Oh... those pussies..... not so right to go into too much details on them.........
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

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