Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: On beating Iron Dome

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    sing
    Posts
    3,353

    Default On beating Iron Dome

    Iron Dome was successful. Its basis of success was correctly predicting the trajectory of an incoming rocket.
    It was a real life test. Not a drill.

    For the countries (Russia? Iran?) who supplied the weapons to Hamas, it was essentially a weapons real life test of their rockets.

    Just like the way USA used to test its concept weapons in Vietnam in real combat. Well, among other things, US troops tested Agent Orange - with unexpected long lasting results far exceeding the war years.

    Russian and Iranian defence scientists must have been carefully monitoring all of the interceptions made by Iron Dome.

    And gone back to their drawing boards formulating a new generation of rockets and missiles to beat the Iron Dome defence.

    One way is to have rockets programmed with multiple UNPREDICTABLE trajectories i.e. at some point near the target area, another booster will fire to change its direction. And later another booster to change its final direction, by which time it will be so close to target that interception is impossible.

    Extreme accuracy is not important, if all you want is for the rocket to fall into a general (civilian populated) area ten miles in diameter. As long as the rocket is not intercepted and lands somewhere, that will do.

    Multiple burst rockets - from one main rocket, 10 smaller rockets will emerge, near to target area but outside of Iron Dome interception radius. There is not enough time to intercept these 10 rockets all flying in different directions.

    Can use duds and overwhelm by a surge in numbers. Fire 300 rockets at same time in which 150 are duds and the iron dome operators don't know which ones to intercept.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 3rd December 2012 at 09:56 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: On beating Iron Dome

    don't show your head above ground for next three months. Mossad looking for you
    宁愿遇见丢失幼崽的母熊,也不愿碰上做蠢事的愚人

  3. #3
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    3,656
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: On beating Iron Dome

    CIA gonna have a bounty on your head.

    how come SAF no hire you to be their head of future systems?

  4. #4

    Default Re: On beating Iron Dome

    LoL I doubt the eggheads who designed the weapon system haven't think about this already. There must be some technical limitation or systemic weakness to this strategy

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    sing
    Posts
    3,353

    Default Re: On beating Iron Dome

    It is just normal evolution of measure and then counter measure. e.g. first planes, then radar to detect the planes, then metallic chaff to confuse radar, then stealth fighters to avoid detection.

    Probably Russians wanted test Iron Dome for real, to study its strengths and look for weaknesses.

    Russians are very advanced scientifically. The key piece of stealth formula was from an old scientific paper by a Russian scientist .

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Woodlands
    Posts
    1,376

    Default Re: On beating Iron Dome

    You want all those tricks, can. But pay up. A rocket that can change trajectory mid-flight is also known as a cruise missile and those are what? A couple of million a pop? MIRV war head? There is a current limit to how small one can make a MIRV warhead and still carry enough fuel and explosive to cause an impact. There is a reason why MIRVs are pretty damn big missiles. Big missiles means easy detection and large logistics support. With the kind of detection capability that the Israelis have, those probably won't have a chance of being fired before being knocked out. Fire 300 missiles of which half are duds? I think if the you can manuver a system that can fire 300 missiles and launch them all before detection then the situation in Israel will have had concluded a long time ago.

    One more thing, you really think that the Russians/Chinese/Iranians can supply Hamas with these high tech weapons and not have it traced back to them?
    Last edited by Evilmerlin; 3rd December 2012 at 11:53 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Big Kahuna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Singapore, Singapore, Singapor
    Posts
    2,127

    Default Re: On beating Iron Dome

    Maybe cheap and easy way is to see fengsui....wind direction.....and use hot air balloon or kong ming lattern as poor man rocket to haul thousands of explosives above the enemy city's skies.....Iron dome and the best radar might be fooled

  8. #8

    Default Re: On beating Iron Dome

    Nowadays we can put together our own active astronomical tracking system for < sgd$1k. Imagine mounting a $400 1W Wicked Laser to it. Probably can't shoot down a missile, but as for other slower targets,...better not say.

  9. #9

    Default Re: On beating Iron Dome

    Iron Dome is just 1000 IDF men in the Iron Man armor

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Kahuna
    Maybe cheap and easy way is to see fengsui....wind direction.....and use hot air balloon or kong ming lattern as poor man rocket to haul thousands of explosives above the enemy city's skies.....Iron dome and the best radar might be fooled
    Better yet, gather 10000 men to fart at once. Take that, Israel!

  11. #11
    Member 9V-Orion Images's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Autenticate ALGRN @ 7987.8270
    Posts
    1,760

    Default Re: On beating Iron Dome

    For those not in the know, Iron Dome was primarily designed and funded by with requirements in mind for the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) in a tripartite collaboration between the Defence Science Organisation (DSO) / Defence Science and Technology Agency (DSTA) and Israel Aerospace Industry (IAI) / Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd., pretty much an open secret around here (also as mentioned in Israeli press reports) in actual fact we are also one of Rafael's largest partner in many, many highly sensitive projects as well with some rather advanced capabilities that are not as yet revealed publicly.

    In response to the OP / TS, Iron Dome as a Short Range Air Defense (SHORAD) against "amateur rocketry and artillery projectiles" is meant to complement the many pre-existing Israeli Air Force (IAF) multi-layered spherical dome concept of aerial fortification that includes but hardly limited to the...

    • IAI Arrow / Hetz

    • Rafael David's Sling

    • Rafael SPYDER-MR

    • Raytheon MIM-104 Patriot

    • Raytheon MIM-23 I-Hawk etc. etc.

    ... against most strategic, theatre, tactical ballistic missiles and guided cruise missiles.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchRival View Post
    Nowadays we can put together our own active astronomical tracking system for < sgd$1k. Imagine mounting a $400 1W Wicked Laser to it. Probably can't shoot down a missile, but as for other slower targets,...better not say.
    You'll need at least a KiloWatt (KW) to MegaWatt (MW) class range laser due to the effects of atmospheric attenuation.
    Last edited by 9V-Orion Images; 4th December 2012 at 06:14 AM.
    CS Aviation / Flickr
    Per aspera ad astra

  12. #12

    Default Re: On beating Iron Dome

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post


    You'll need at least a KiloWatt (KW) to MegaWatt (MW) class range laser due to the effects of atmospheric attenuation.
    The laser guide star systems use 2500W.........
    Now where can i find such a device??

  13. #13
    Member 9V-Orion Images's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Autenticate ALGRN @ 7987.8270
    Posts
    1,760

    Default Re: On beating Iron Dome

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchRival View Post
    The laser guide star systems use 2500W.........
    Now where can i find such a device??
    You can find one of those industrial laser cutters with power ratings of not more than 10 kilowatt (KW) at perhaps say some metal fabrication plants or metalworks but I doubt they'll hardly fit inside your house. Even so taking into account atmospheric attenuation through absorption, reflection and scattering, thermal blooming along with laws of physics such as Beer–Lambert Law and Inverse-Square Law etc. etc. you can only do so much pass a certain limited range of distance though otherwise if these limitations have already been circumvented you might just have soldiers with handheld directed-energy weaponries.
    CS Aviation / Flickr
    Per aspera ad astra

  14. #14

    Default Re: On beating Iron Dome

    Best way to beat Iron Dome
    宁愿遇见丢失幼崽的母熊,也不愿碰上做蠢事的愚人

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    sing
    Posts
    3,353

    Default Re: On beating Iron Dome

    Iron Dome is a technological wonder.

    But as with all things, eventually someone will find a way to breach this defence.
    Maybe a Purposely Inaccurate Missile or Wobbly missile/rocket will be invented. Where the missile/rocket flight path has so many variables that the trajectory is impossible to predict within the short time frame from its launch to hitting target.

    There is nothing technically wrong with Iron Dome.
    But there is something wrong with its mis-managment or mis-application.
    It is only a shield. One day the shield will be overcome. And then what? You cannot forever be a sitting duck for people to shoot at.

    1 rocket fired into Israel can be an accident.
    3 rockets fired into Israel can be an inadvertent misfire.
    10 or more rockets fired into Israel is intentional and purposeful.

    Since 2001, 15,000 rockets and mortar shells launched from Gaza have fallen in Israel.

    Country A should warn that if 100 or more rockets are fired by any other else into Country A's land, then the act is tantamount to a declaration of war.

    Country A reserves the right to mobilise all forces at its disposal to invade the offender and occupy it for as long as necessary (many years) until the threat of rockets is neutralised.

    The warning should be given only once.

    And it is up to the offender/s to self-regulate.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    新天地
    Posts
    4,768

    Default Re: On beating Iron Dome

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    CIA gonna have a bounty on your head.

    how come SAF no hire you to be their head of future systems?
    Every time SAF wants to find out something new they come to Kopitiam to read his posts.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    新天地
    Posts
    4,768

    Default Re: On beating Iron Dome

    Quote Originally Posted by hanzohattori View Post
    Better yet, gather 10000 men to fart at once. Take that, Israel!
    Must make sure wind blows at right direction.

    If not you can cause damage to yourself.

  18. #18

    Default Re: On beating Iron Dome

    Iron dome worst nightmare below

    I eats, shoots & leaves

  19. #19

    Default Re: On beating Iron Dome

    Quote Originally Posted by Yutaka Go View Post
    Iron dome worst nightmare below

    as an ethnic Jew he should be ok. most likely he will mess up incoming rocket fire instead and divert to land in harmless area

    iron dome project will then surely be afraid then. all the staff made redundant .
    宁愿遇见丢失幼崽的母熊,也不愿碰上做蠢事的愚人

  20. #20
    Member 9V-Orion Images's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Autenticate ALGRN @ 7987.8270
    Posts
    1,760

    Default Re: On beating Iron Dome

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    Iron Dome is a technological wonder.
    Uncle Ricohflex, not many considers the Rafael Iron Dome a technological wonder. A majority of the the inbound Hamas' threats such Qassam amateur rockets, artillery and mortar projectiles could have been dealt with as just effectively (if not better) by multiple clusters of mobile Raytheon Centurion Counter Rocket, Artillery, and Mortar (C-RAM ) Close-In Weapon System (CIWS) batteries already deployed operationally in both Afghanistan and Iraq instead not to mention it's much, much cheaper as well as compared to the Rafael Iron Dome. IIRC and someone please do correct me if I'm wrong, these Qassam amateur rockets, artillery and mortar projectiles are also frequently fired with a high / steep, arching trajectory at an extremely short distances across the border beyond the minimal threat engagement envelope of the Rafael Iron Dome as well thus leaving the Rafael Iron Dome suitable only for intercepting inbound Hamas' threats such as the Grads and Katyushas so you can see it does have its limitations and restrictions, hardly an all-in-one wonder air defence system.

    Now if you will start inventing your budget or economical "guided cruise missile or rocket" with "unpredictable flight trajectories" through the ability to rapidly outmanoeuvre its own current flightpath in just an instant before releasing or separating into multiple warheads to saturate the entire enemy's air defences, that will really then be a technological wonder.
    Last edited by 9V-Orion Images; 5th December 2012 at 04:01 AM.
    CS Aviation / Flickr
    Per aspera ad astra

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •