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Thread: Are you happy with Telcos offering 2 years of contract service?

  1. #41
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma
    i have had a long unhappy relationship with Starhub which ended 2 years ago when we broke up.

    When I first started going with Starhub everything was so good. Per second billing, hub discount, cable modem (speeeddddddddddddddddddddddddddd).

    Then one day I don't want to use cable modem anymore. Not using enough due to being home very late after work and sports club.
    I called up call center to cancel. I thought they cancel for me. So I disconnected my modem

    After that I got another line from M1 with a nice number. I didn't have to go through ridiculous bidding system to buy it. Just pay cash upfront.
    I decided to stop using my Starhub number. I called the call center. I thought they cancelled for me, so I disconnected my SIM card.

    Some time later I received bills on regular intervals. I thought it was on my outstanding bills (since I am woefully forgetful). I paid. and I paid. up to $400~$500 worth.

    I soon realized that I am receiving current bills. I called up the call center again to tell them to stop and terminate all my accounts.

    I continued to receive bills, again! I refused to pay and their continued billing reached a sum of almost $500 upon which they sent me a Letter of Demand from a lawyer (despite my explanations to call center staff who called me to remind me to pay , meaning, pay for a bill which I shouldn't rightly be billed for) . They even had the cheek to bill me for this Letter.

    I escalated the matter to the Accounts Dept and technical dept where they had indeed determined that I had made a bona fide request to terminate (by the switching off/disconnect actions) . They refunded my overpayment but have not since formally apologised for the fiasco.

    I am still a bit riled up when I think about this.
    Need to get it in writing next time.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Are you happy with Telcos offering 2 years of contract service?

    Quote Originally Posted by keiser View Post
    Lost you a bit there … are you saying that Telcos could only make money if customers enter long contracts agreement them … or you saying they cannot charge too low to remain viable?
    the answer is YES
    They will lose money if they keep giving things out for free and charge low fee.
    Last edited by Yutaka Go; 4th December 2012 at 09:39 PM.
    I eats, shoots & leaves

  3. #43

    Default Re: Are you happy with Telcos offering 2 years of contract service?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma View Post
    i have had a long unhappy relationship with Starhub which ended 2 years ago when we broke up.

    When I first started going with Starhub everything was so good. Per second billing, hub discount, cable modem (speeeddddddddddddddddddddddddddd).

    Then one day I don't want to use cable modem anymore. Not using enough due to being home very late after work and sports club.
    I called up call center to cancel. I thought they cancel for me. So I disconnected my modem

    After that I got another line from M1 with a nice number. I didn't have to go through ridiculous bidding system to buy it. Just pay cash upfront.
    I decided to stop using my Starhub number. I called the call center. I thought they cancelled for me, so I disconnected my SIM card.

    Some time later I received bills on regular intervals. I thought it was on my outstanding bills (since I am woefully forgetful). I paid. and I paid. up to $400~$500 worth.

    I soon realized that I am receiving current bills. I called up the call center again to tell them to stop and terminate all my accounts.

    I continued to receive bills, again! I refused to pay and their continued billing reached a sum of almost $500 upon which they sent me a Letter of Demand from a lawyer (despite my explanations to call center staff who called me to remind me to pay , meaning, pay for a bill which I shouldn't rightly be billed for) . They even had the cheek to bill me for this Letter.

    I escalated the matter to the Accounts Dept and technical dept where they had indeed determined that I had made a bona fide request to terminate (by the switching off/disconnect actions) . They refunded my overpayment but have not since formally apologised for the fiasco.

    I am still a bit riled up when I think about this.
    You should go to starhub website and write in instead of call in. They don't understand meowlish language

    I also cancel my maxonline and use maxmobile only (I use to have both).
    No problem with the bill afterward.
    I eats, shoots & leaves

  4. #44

    Default Re: Are you happy with Telcos offering 2 years of contract service?

    1: Contracts are meant to keep the customer with them for a period of time.
    this is to ensure continued business. to allow a 1 year contract or 6 month contract is quite ridiculous. think of the numbers they have to keep recycling. think of everyone you'd had to update the contact details of if the person kept changing numbers (the fact that people are fickle is considered)

    with a contract, they know that they have a continued income from users. allowing the users to change contracts and service providers at will, will only cause headaches for their planning and contracts departments

    2: how would you feel if your wife/husband signs the marriage contract of "till death do us part" but asks for a divorce 1 year later? (this is not a good example i know)

    3: did you know that, after taking away the cost of the mobile phone at SRP from the entire cost of a 2 year contract plus phone, you do realize the cost is pretty cheap?

    i.e. let's say SRP for a phone is $900.

    the plan is $50 a month for 2 years. if i take this plan, i pay $300 for the phone.

    $50 x 24 = $1200. + 300 is 1500.

    Essentially, i'm paying $600 for 2 years of phone service... which is 600/24 = $25 a month.

    i know this third point is not really connected to your question but heck. FYI

    4. Businesses need liquid assets (FYI: Cash On Hand or in Banks).

    this is for unforeseen circumstances (both good and bad). and also for banks to rate it for investments and loans.
    IF as you say, you'd rather not let them earn much profit... do you even THINK anyone else would want to start a business without profit in mind.

    in this aspect, you're thinking naively. who the heck starts a business for fun and just to only break even every month?

  5. #45
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you happy with Telcos offering 2 years of contract service?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma View Post
    i have had a long unhappy relationship with Starhub which ended 2 years ago when we broke up.

    When I first started going with Starhub everything was so good. Per second billing, hub discount, cable modem (speeeddddddddddddddddddddddddddd).

    Then one day I don't want to use cable modem anymore. Not using enough due to being home very late after work and sports club.
    I called up call center to cancel. I thought they cancel for me. So I disconnected my modem

    After that I got another line from M1 with a nice number. I didn't have to go through ridiculous bidding system to buy it. Just pay cash upfront.
    I decided to stop using my Starhub number. I called the call center. I thought they cancelled for me, so I disconnected my SIM card.

    Some time later I received bills on regular intervals. I thought it was on my outstanding bills (since I am woefully forgetful). I paid. and I paid. up to $400~$500 worth.

    I soon realized that I am receiving current bills. I called up the call center again to tell them to stop and terminate all my accounts.

    I continued to receive bills, again! I refused to pay and their continued billing reached a sum of almost $500 upon which they sent me a Letter of Demand from a lawyer (despite my explanations to call center staff who called me to remind me to pay , meaning, pay for a bill which I shouldn't rightly be billed for) . They even had the cheek to bill me for this Letter.

    I escalated the matter to the Accounts Dept and technical dept where they had indeed determined that I had made a bona fide request to terminate (by the switching off/disconnect actions) . They refunded my overpayment but have not since formally apologised for the fiasco.

    I am still a bit riled up when I think about this.
    I have a bumpy love/hate relationship with Starhub for 12 months.

    The day I found out she was with another man I just packed my bag and walked out.

    So far I only have short-term relationships with a few telcos but with mutual dissatisfaction.

    What to do? Boh Pian.

    I wish I could revert to the old way of tying a message on a pigeon's leg.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Are you happy with Telcos offering 2 years of contract service?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma View Post
    i have had a long unhappy relationship with Starhub which ended 2 years ago when we broke up.
    .................................................. .................... .............................................
    I am still a bit riled up when I think about this.

    Send a formal registered letter to the CEO of Starhub to cancel your service, copy to the Minister for Communications and Information.

    Is it overkill? Yes but do it anyway.
    Will it work to prevent deliberate and persistent over billing of a cancelled account? Maybe.

    This way, if they still do it, somebody's head will roll when you raise the complaint.

  7. #47
    Senior Member G-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keiser
    Lost you a bit there are you saying that Telcos could only make money if customers enter long contracts agreement them or you saying they cannot charge too low to remain viable?
    Dude.. A telco is a BUSINESS! It is NOT a frigging charity!

    A BUSINESS needs to remain PROFITABLE. It's the same with your favourite camera store selling
    you your gear. They need to sell at a HIGHER price than the cost of their goods.

  8. #48

    Default

    Telcos only scared on 2 things in Singapore. Temasek and Bad Press. To get their attention, noise must be loud and visible. To get their action, noise must be impactful enough to hurt their market share by jumping to rival telco. They internal kpis are based on new subs, hence strategy has always been to attract rather than retain. Unfortunately we only have 3 telcos, so it's a matter of time you would go back to sq one...

  9. #49

    Default Re: Are you happy with Telcos offering 2 years of contract service?

    Wow, thank you for your response. Fortunately, I understand your what you are saying … and below is my take on some of your points ….

    1. I believe most consumers would not change their contract details regularly for their own convenience – unless he/she is on the run.

    2. No, I do not think of Telco as a girlfriend or a spouse, and therefore trust that a customer should be able to terminate or switch to other providers, unlike in a relationship or a marriage. Of course the service providers will try to discourage non or shorter contractual relationship through price discrimination and other means …

    3. I have raised the point on SRP (e.g. who really has power on retail price) as I really don’t think that the Telco will purchase those devices at retail price from their suppliers. If the Telco or even yourself could get the bundled device lower retail price … the cost saving calculation of yours would not be so relevant...

    4. I believe the Telcos are very well capitalized and therefore the secured cash flows from long contracts are more to boost its valuation and ultimately its stock value, rather than serving mainly liquidity purposes.

    While I agree that cash flow is vital of a company, I also believe that the company should retain its paying customers through innovative and high quality services rather than long legal contracts. In short, such contractual agreement certainly serves some purposes but less so for the consumer, and that such as such practice has lead to an overall non-competitive environment … in my personal view

    Btw, I started the thread on long contracts and not on pricing or profitability ….



    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    1: Contracts are meant to keep the customer with them for a period of time.
    this is to ensure continued business. to allow a 1 year contract or 6 month contract is quite ridiculous. think of the numbers they have to keep recycling. think of everyone you'd had to update the contact details of if the person kept changing numbers (the fact that people are fickle is considered)

    with a contract, they know that they have a continued income from users. allowing the users to change contracts and service providers at will, will only cause headaches for their planning and contracts departments

    2: how would you feel if your wife/husband signs the marriage contract of "till death do us part" but asks for a divorce 1 year later? (this is not a good example i know)

    3: did you know that, after taking away the cost of the mobile phone at SRP from the entire cost of a 2 year contract plus phone, you do realize the cost is pretty cheap?

    i.e. let's say SRP for a phone is $900.

    the plan is $50 a month for 2 years. if i take this plan, i pay $300 for the phone.

    $50 x 24 = $1200. + 300 is 1500.

    Essentially, i'm paying $600 for 2 years of phone service... which is 600/24 = $25 a month.

    i know this third point is not really connected to your question but heck. FYI

    4. Businesses need liquid assets (FYI: Cash On Hand or in Banks).

    this is for unforeseen circumstances (both good and bad). and also for banks to rate it for investments and loans.
    IF as you say, you'd rather not let them earn much profit... do you even THINK anyone else would want to start a business without profit in mind.

    in this aspect, you're thinking naively. who the heck starts a business for fun and just to only break even every month?
    Last edited by keiser; 4th December 2012 at 10:13 PM.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Are you happy with Telcos offering 2 years of contract service?

    i was sleeping with my phone long before i was sleeping with my spouse.

    that's why i feel betrayed .
    宁愿遇见丢失幼崽的母熊,也不愿碰上做蠢事的愚人

  11. #51
    Senior Member G-man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you happy with Telcos offering 2 years of contract service?

    Quote Originally Posted by keiser View Post
    Wow, thank you for your response. Fortunately, I understand your what you are saying … and below is my take on some of

    Btw, I started the thread on long contracts and not on pricing or profitability ….
    Erm, they are inter-related. A contract is guaranteed income for any business. Whether that business lives up to the terms of the contract or not is another point.

    FWIW, you are essentially paying for the device, just spread over a longer period. And as what the others have mentioned, you are free to buy a handset WITHOUT a contract, you just pay upfront, so the innovation here is by offering you the handset at a lower price, you are legally bound to stay with the telco. Nothing wrong with that.

    Perhaps you can suggest what other innovative ways the telcos can come up with to retain their customers?

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Are you happy with Telcos offering 2 years of contract service?

    After much mockery of other members, this is what you can come up with? Not impressed.

    1. From the question asker/ customer perspective, 2 year, 1 year contract doesn't mean they're gonna change their numbers after the contract. Who would like to do that? What they want is a short contract so that they may terminate if not happy, switch telco (and still can keep their number nowadays), or they may upgrade their handset at discounted price every year instead of 2. I'm not saying that this is for everyone. Some customers like this, e.g TS. Why not give it to them? there must be a more complicated problem somewhere that we may not aware of.

    2. Since this is a bad example. Some may want 2 handset/wife upgrade in one life time. Especially those who realize how bad their spouses are after married. Most may not.

    3. As I mentioned earlier, just tweak the number and you'll get the same profit. From your example, why not offer 1 year contract at $50 monthly with a $600 handset instead? (people are still effectively pay $25/ month for the service).

    4. Why is that 2 year contract give the telco more cash? Let's say I'm paying telco $300 for the handset, telco pay $700 (bulk price) for the phone manufacturer, they're $400 short and will take it back gradually in 2 years. If one year contract, I pay $600, telco is $100 short and will get it back in 1 year. 2 year is better if the phone manufacturers give telco 2 year delay payment, in that case, 1 mil handsets total up to more than half a billion.

    TS never ask for less profit from telco, he just simply asks why telco doesn't offer 1 year contract which he is so happy to sign up. The telco still have ways to retain that profit by setting the discounted price for 1 year handset right? He's not asking for 1 year contract with $300 handset ($600 discount), that will definitely kill the telco as they're charging $0 for service.

    Maybe you should think from TS/customers' perspective when answering their questions. Even when you have valid reason, explain to them properly instead of just saying do biz must like this, do biz must like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    1: Contracts are meant to keep the customer with them for a period of time.
    this is to ensure continued business. to allow a 1 year contract or 6 month contract is quite ridiculous. think of the numbers they have to keep recycling. think of everyone you'd had to update the contact details of if the person kept changing numbers (the fact that people are fickle is considered)

    with a contract, they know that they have a continued income from users. allowing the users to change contracts and service providers at will, will only cause headaches for their planning and contracts departments

    2: how would you feel if your wife/husband signs the marriage contract of "till death do us part" but asks for a divorce 1 year later? (this is not a good example i know)

    3: did you know that, after taking away the cost of the mobile phone at SRP from the entire cost of a 2 year contract plus phone, you do realize the cost is pretty cheap?

    i.e. let's say SRP for a phone is $900.

    the plan is $50 a month for 2 years. if i take this plan, i pay $300 for the phone.

    $50 x 24 = $1200. + 300 is 1500.

    Essentially, i'm paying $600 for 2 years of phone service... which is 600/24 = $25 a month.

    i know this third point is not really connected to your question but heck. FYI

    4. Businesses need liquid assets (FYI: Cash On Hand or in Banks).

    this is for unforeseen circumstances (both good and bad). and also for banks to rate it for investments and loans.
    IF as you say, you'd rather not let them earn much profit... do you even THINK anyone else would want to start a business without profit in mind.

    in this aspect, you're thinking naively. who the heck starts a business for fun and just to only break even every month?

  13. #53

    Default Re: Are you happy with Telcos offering 2 years of contract service?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma View Post
    i was sleeping with my phone long before i was sleeping with my spouse.

    that's why i feel betrayed .
    I don't sleep with my phone because people called me at 3 AM (wrong number)
    I eats, shoots & leaves

  14. #54

    Default Re: Are you happy with Telcos offering 2 years of contract service?

    Objection !!!

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Are you happy with Telcos offering 2 years of contract service?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    Send a formal registered letter to the CEO of Starhub to cancel your service, copy to the Minister for Communications and Information.

    Is it overkill? Yes but do it anyway.
    Will it work to prevent deliberate and persistent over billing of a cancelled account? Maybe.

    This way, if they still do it, somebody's head will roll when you raise the complaint.
    Speaker's Corner is for such thing.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Are you happy with Telcos offering 2 years of contract service?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma View Post
    i was sleeping with my phone long before i was sleeping with my spouse.

    that's why i feel betrayed .
    Be careful.

    You'll warm up the battery and cause it to expand.


  17. #57

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    Ts only ask one question....

    My answer is two.

    No I am not happy - because 2 year contract is too long of a suffering from severe slowness.


    Yes i am happy - all telcos still give me the same suffering. At least i am used to my current.

  18. #58

    Default Re: Are you happy with Telcos offering 2 years of contract service?

    Quote Originally Posted by htthach View Post
    After much mockery of other members, this is what you can come up with? Not impressed.

    1. From the question asker/ customer perspective, 2 year, 1 year contract doesn't mean they're gonna change their numbers after the contract. Who would like to do that? What they want is a short contract so that they may terminate if not happy, switch telco (and still can keep their number nowadays), or they may upgrade their handset at discounted price every year instead of 2. I'm not saying that this is for everyone. Some customers like this, e.g TS. Why not give it to them? there must be a more complicated problem somewhere that we may not aware of.

    2. Since this is a bad example. Some may want 2 handset/wife upgrade in one life time. Especially those who realize how bad their spouses are after married. Most may not.

    3. As I mentioned earlier, just tweak the number and you'll get the same profit. From your example, why not offer 1 year contract at $50 monthly with a $600 handset instead? (people are still effectively pay $25/ month for the service).

    4. Why is that 2 year contract give the telco more cash? Let's say I'm paying telco $300 for the handset, telco pay $700 (bulk price) for the phone manufacturer, they're $400 short and will take it back gradually in 2 years. If one year contract, I pay $600, telco is $100 short and will get it back in 1 year. 2 year is better if the phone manufacturers give telco 2 year delay payment, in that case, 1 mil handsets total up to more than half a billion.

    TS never ask for less profit from telco, he just simply asks why telco doesn't offer 1 year contract which he is so happy to sign up. The telco still have ways to retain that profit by setting the discounted price for 1 year handset right? He's not asking for 1 year contract with $300 handset ($600 discount), that will definitely kill the telco as they're charging $0 for service.

    Maybe you should think from TS/customers' perspective when answering their questions. Even when you have valid reason, explain to them properly instead of just saying do biz must like this, do biz must like that.
    your post's questions have been answered, my dear friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by G-man View Post
    Erm, they are inter-related. A contract is guaranteed income for any business. Whether that business lives up to the terms of the contract or not is another point.

    FWIW, you are essentially paying for the device, just spread over a longer period. And as what the others have mentioned, you are free to buy a handset WITHOUT a contract, you just pay upfront, so the innovation here is by offering you the handset at a lower price, you are legally bound to stay with the telco. Nothing wrong with that.

    Perhaps you can suggest what other innovative ways the telcos can come up with to retain their customers?
    also, TS questioned why NOT handsets/other products come cheaper.

    instead, you're throwing more questions to muddle TS who appears not to even understand in the first place. what's your point?

    and of course, if i DON'T explain from a business point of view, how is it a fair example?

  19. #59

    Default Re: Are you happy with Telcos offering 2 years of contract service?

    Quote Originally Posted by htthach View Post
    Btw, what's with the above-looking-down tone of kei1309? Answering a question with another mockery question doesn't make you smarter than others, does it?
    It's like
    Q- Why doesn't Canon release 35L mk II?
    A- Oh, ghost, you have any idea about optical design of the new L? Do you understand the economical sense of that? I guess you never learn that in school.


    in what way did i mock TS? what are you talking about? i have no clue. unless you've discovered a deeper meaning to my posts.

    anyways... to answer your question...no it doesn't make me smarter than others. it just makes me smarter than you when you come accusing me of doing something, yet you're pulling that same stunt you're accusing me of, on me.

  20. #60
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    Default Re: Are you happy with Telcos offering 2 years of contract service?

    well, your first response was
    "do you even understand WHY they're making it two years? "

    and after Originally Posted by keiser "Do enlighten me"
    your response was

    "you're older than i am.
    seriously, go think about WHY. "

    And by the way, I did not pull the same stunt. My posts were clear with explanation, even the correctness of it is not assured.
    My postd were not one liner counter questions like the above, unless you've discovered a shallower meaning to my posts.

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