Macro shots with Lumix - a discussion worth sticky!

JimDavis · 3rd March 2005

Originally Posted by Shierly

I also having the same problem. bring the camera very close to the object, abt 5cm away. but don't get a sharp object leh.... Haven't put a macro filter, as i don't have time for this baby now. The 5cm distance isn't means the distance between object and the camera?? i hope i won't read wrongly pai seh, i also a newbie

Just wonder if you have set your cam to Macro mode, or are you operating at only P-mode?

the 5 cm means the direct distance from the object to the camera lens...

Any other taker that can help Shierly? tchuanye: you are the expert in macro shots among the Lumixers, can you help?

Firefox · 3rd March 2005

Switch to manual focus mode and focus manually. Either that or bring the camera back a little.

sunkist · 3rd March 2005

Hi all,

Most of the time, i will use the Marco mode for marco shots. Somehow i feel i will let the camera take care of the setting while i be more comfortable/relax with only the composition of photos.

I think it might be some reason why Shierly can't get a decent shot.
1) she didnt use the "marco mode" , but the working distance is 5cm
2) She might have enable the MF (not sure if this affect)
3) she might be a little bit less than 5cm.

Hope it helps. =)

Hong Jia · 3rd March 2005

Problem with marco is that the Autofocus wun work if u put on marco filters...

Muz switch to MF, adjust util almost clear, move in... move out...(moving ur camera, not the zoom, actually zoom oso can... but 12x zoom give a good DOF with +4 filter), varying the distance util u get a clear focus then shoot... haaa... it is all about technique, i find it very hard to do tat... need alot of time, it help if ur flash is on... help to clear out the blurred outlines... heee...

Maybe the master of macro with FZ-10: Chuanye might wan to give some advise here...

Cheers...

LifeWorld · 3rd March 2005

The FZ20 can do macro shots without using the 'Macro' mode. I use 'A' mode seldom 'Macro' mode!
When shooting macro at Wide (5cm~2M), you can zoom up to less than 3X Optical and get AF easily. More than 3X optical zoom, the AF won't work unless you shoot at 2M~ Tele.

And yes, I have tried +4 close-up filter. It works at 1cm~5cm wide! I could AF when zoomed to less than 3X optical.

In A mode

More here

josho · 3rd March 2005

Chuanye

Look like most of the ppl will need ur precious tips

Hong Jia · 3rd March 2005

oh yah... one more point...

Mus change to "Spot focus" too...

tchuanye · 4th March 2005

Guys, paiseh for late reply.....got back home late from work today.

Quite frankly, I seldom shoot macro w/o Close up lens, but I think lifeworld is right, and base on what I played with earlier, I don't think Macro mode has any difference in the ability to focus, and I have mostly used M mode or A mode and it focus just fine. Perhaps some others may have found it differently?

5 cm is a general guide, and its distance from lens to subject. When subject is out of focus, it can be afew reasons:
1) distance is too near, (as sunkist mentioned) and camera cannot focus. So use MF, and move the camera and see agar agar at what position the image is sharp. Can leave it at MF or switch to AF to focus. (this applies also to Close up lens attachment)

2) whats the shutter speed? Using tripod? If image is in focus, but shutter speed very slow, and handheld, than camera shake may just make the imge soft.

3) As Hong Jia mentioned, Spot mode would help. I am using the FZ10 and it only uses the center to focus. I understand that the FZ20 has some multiple focus pt? or something like that? Anyway, even if I have that function, I would select the single focus point, cos I want to DECIDE which part to be in focus. Spot mode would shrink down that area to specifically which part you want to be in focus. In normal mode, the image may be focused, but at the wrong part, and image may appear out of focus. This especially so if using CU filters, as the DOF is very sensitive....you know the [ ] box may just cover the whole insect when you wnat the eyes to be in focused.
BTW, with CU filter, you can use AF mode, and I understand the difficulty, thats why I use pt 1 above to get in focus. For e.g. the recent Sungei Buloh DF shots were taken with Nikon 6T in AF mode (if I remember correctly)

Perhaps this 3 pts may be a possible cause, well from my experience anyway. There may be more reasons, where others may be able to help fill in.

To me, for macro, ext flash is quite essential, as it allows you to take the pic with a small apteure (F8) and faster shutter speed. I would say 98% of my shots are with ext bounce flash.

hope my 2c helps

Hong Jia · 4th March 2005

Originally Posted by tchuanye

For e.g. the recent Sungei Buloh DF shots were taken with Nikon 6T in AF mode (if I remember correctly)

Do u still stack with the Sigma +4 or you just used the 6T? Muz stack to get the nice magnificant u have. Or do i just need to get a 6T?

Muz sort the fact ritez before i get a 6T, quite expensive, got a quote of $70 for it. 6T is measure is dipoles issit, how to convert between a normal +1, +2 to dipole or r they equalivent...?

Sorry for so many questions.

Cheers...

tchuanye · 4th March 2005

Originally Posted by Hong Jia

Do u still stack with the Sigma +4 or you just used the 6T? Muz stack to get the nice magnificant u have. Or do i just need to get a 6T?

Muz sort the fact ritez before i get a 6T, quite expensive, got a quote of $70 for it. 6T is measure is dipoles issit, how to convert between a normal +1, +2 to dipole or r they equalivent...?

Sorry for so many questions.

Cheers...

My sigma is actually a +1.6.

Really depends on the subject. If its large like a DF, than the 6T is quite sufficient. If I want to take smaller insect, that attaching the sigma infront would give me +2.9 + 1.6 = +4.5 total.

+1,+2 is the dioptre value. If stack, just add them up. For magnification calculation, can use formula from this website:

http://azone.clubsnap.org/insectguide/page02.html
Quote"Meanwhile, you can do a some calculations to find out magnification factor before deciding which close-up filter/lens to purchase. The formula goes like this:

magnification factor = f / ( 1000 / d )

where
f is the maximum focal length of the camera,
d is the diopter rating of the close-up filter/lens"

tankm · 4th March 2005

Some interesting links on macro:

http://www.mplonsky.com/photo/article.htm

Shierly · 4th March 2005

Thank you to all of the experts above. Very useful advice.

By the way, i use 'Macro mode", did try on AF and MF. Adjusted my camera, move inner or further to get the object clear and sharp, but seem the distance is more than 5cm in order to get the perfect image. Will it be my camera problem?

Perhaps, i need to follow Lifeworld, add a +4 filter and play with it again. Er... May i know whether do u guys use software to macro the photo as well? because i can't get the object so large on my cam LCD screen during shooting.

rhair78 · 4th March 2005

Originally Posted by Shierly

Thank you to all of the experts above. Very useful advice.
By the way, i use 'Macro mode", did try on AF and MF. Adjusted my camera, move inner or further to get the object clear and sharp, but seem the distance is more than 5cm in order to get the perfect image. Will it be my camera problem?
Perhaps, i need to follow Lifeworld, add a +4 filter and play with it again. Er... May i know whether do u guys use software to macro the photo as well? because i can't get the object so large on my cam LCD screen during shooting.

Nope Shierly, not likely to be fault with your cam... hmm.. how on earth you measure while taking pics anyways... kekeke..

Unfortunately, it takes a CU filter in order to work with little things.
When you shooting flowers, you can go as near as 1-2 cm and then zoom up to about max 3x maybe (this part is experimental on your part), but be careful of the shadow you cast from getting too near. If you want to zoom right in to the nitty gritty, then use full zoom at 12x, but your camera distance would be about 30cm roughly from the subject (again is experimental on your part) play around with the manual settings.

When working from 30cm, you can set aperture F8, high shutter speeds and use your inbuilt flash or an external flash with some sort of bounce, or softener (like stofen omnibounce etc) to reduce the harshness. You will be surprised at the results of using flash and not using flash.... it can really bring out the rich colors if the subject. Thanks to ChuanYe for his patient guidances along the way through this forum

You could join us for the Ubin trip next saturday to ask your questions to the SHIFUs hahahaha.. OLD BIRD FZ users... minus me.. hahaha

JimDavis · 4th March 2005

Originally Posted by Shierly

Thank you to all of the experts above. Very useful advice.
By the way, i use 'Macro mode", did try on AF and MF. Adjusted my camera, move inner or further to get the object clear and sharp, but seem the distance is more than 5cm in order to get the perfect image. Will it be my camera problem?
Perhaps, i need to follow Lifeworld, add a +4 filter and play with it again. Er... May i know whether do u guys use software to macro the photo as well? because i can't get the object so large on my cam LCD screen during shooting.

Why not joining us in the coming Ubin trip so that we can share, and you can practice on the spot?

I have a +4 filter, but thread size is 58mm....almost brand new...also, I have a Wide Angle+Macro lens...you can take a look and try if you want...

awongkk · 4th March 2005

Originally Posted by Shierly

Thank you to all of the experts above. Very useful advice.
By the way, i use 'Macro mode", did try on AF and MF. Adjusted my camera, move inner or further to get the object clear and sharp, but seem the distance is more than 5cm in order to get the perfect image. Will it be my camera problem?
Perhaps, i need to follow Lifeworld, add a +4 filter and play with it again. Er... May i know whether do u guys use software to macro the photo as well? because i can't get the object so large on my cam LCD screen during shooting.

We Lumixers, do not call ourself expert

. We all just share our experience, there is no end in learning. Especially in photography, there are some basic rules that we can follow as those are sure can rules. But, rules are there to be break, if you can find your own shooting style and way, why not ?
You can always share with us.
For me, I'm using a Hoya +4 (cos' can't get 6T

). A mode, manual focus or fixed the focus and move forward and backward to get the subject focus, then ....... burst.

LifeWorld · 4th March 2005

Originally Posted by awongkk

We Lumixers, do not call ourself expert . We all just share our experience, there is no end in learning. Especially in photography, there are some basic rules that we can follow as those are sure can rules. But, rules are there to be break, if you can find your own shooting style and way, why not ?
You can always share with us.
For me, I'm using a Hoya +4 (cos' can't get 6T ). A mode, manual focus or fixed the focus and move forward and backward to get the subject focus, then ....... burst.

Ah yes, there're no experts in Lumix World! All newbies, still learning and sharing........ Shierly, if we are, so are you!

rhair78 · 4th March 2005

Originally Posted by JimDavis

Why not joining us in the coming Ubin trip so that we can share, and you can practice on the spot?

I have a +4 filter, but thread size is 58mm....almost brand new...also, I have a Wide Angle+Macro lens...you can take a look and try if you want...

Ah! I have 72mm Hoya +4, try try no problem.

John Teoh · 4th March 2005

Originally Posted by rhair78

Ah! I have 72mm Hoya +4, try try no problem.

I got about 40 pieces of +1, +2 , +4 and macro in my drawer

Cheers
John

LifeWorld · 4th March 2005

Originally Posted by rhair78

Ah! I have 72mm Hoya +4, try try no problem.

The Hoya 72mm +4 filter is

I used it for my macro shots as shown.

sunkist · 4th March 2005

helpful lumixer

3rd March 2005	#4
Hong Jia Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 915	Problem with marco is that the Autofocus wun work if u put on marco filters... Muz switch to MF, adjust util almost clear, move in... move out...(moving ur camera, not the zoom, actually zoom oso can... but 12x zoom give a good DOF with +4 filter), varying the distance util u get a clear focus then shoot... haaa... it is all about technique, i find it very hard to do tat... need alot of time, it help if ur flash is on... help to clear out the blurred outlines... heee... Maybe the master of macro with FZ-10: Chuanye might wan to give some advise here... Cheers... Last edited by Hong Jia; 3rd March 2005 at 07:19 PM.

3rd March 2005	#5
LifeWorld Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: East Coast Posts: 2,318	The FZ20 can do macro shots without using the 'Macro' mode. I use 'A' mode seldom 'Macro' mode! When shooting macro at Wide (5cm~2M), you can zoom up to less than 3X Optical and get AF easily. More than 3X optical zoom, the AF won't work unless you shoot at 2M~ Tele. And yes, I have tried +4 close-up filter. It works at 1cm~5cm wide! I could AF when zoomed to less than 3X optical. In A mode More here Last edited by LifeWorld; 3rd March 2005 at 08:48 PM.

3rd March 2005	#6
josho Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Jln Teck Whye Posts: 2,024	Chuanye Chuanye Chuanye Look like most of the ppl will need ur precious tips __________________ Canon Blog Flickr

4th March 2005	#8
tchuanye Moderator Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 4,958	Guys, paiseh for late reply.....got back home late from work today. Quite frankly, I seldom shoot macro w/o Close up lens, but I think lifeworld is right, and base on what I played with earlier, I don't think Macro mode has any difference in the ability to focus, and I have mostly used M mode or A mode and it focus just fine. Perhaps some others may have found it differently? 5 cm is a general guide, and its distance from lens to subject. When subject is out of focus, it can be afew reasons: 1) distance is too near, (as sunkist mentioned) and camera cannot focus. So use MF, and move the camera and see agar agar at what position the image is sharp. Can leave it at MF or switch to AF to focus. (this applies also to Close up lens attachment) 2) whats the shutter speed? Using tripod? If image is in focus, but shutter speed very slow, and handheld, than camera shake may just make the imge soft. 3) As Hong Jia mentioned, Spot mode would help. I am using the FZ10 and it only uses the center to focus. I understand that the FZ20 has some multiple focus pt? or something like that? Anyway, even if I have that function, I would select the single focus point, cos I want to DECIDE which part to be in focus. Spot mode would shrink down that area to specifically which part you want to be in focus. In normal mode, the image may be focused, but at the wrong part, and image may appear out of focus. This especially so if using CU filters, as the DOF is very sensitive....you know the [ ] box may just cover the whole insect when you wnat the eyes to be in focused. BTW, with CU filter, you can use AF mode, and I understand the difficulty, thats why I use pt 1 above to get in focus. For e.g. the recent Sungei Buloh DF shots were taken with Nikon 6T in AF mode (if I remember correctly) Perhaps this 3 pts may be a possible cause, well from my experience anyway. There may be more reasons, where others may be able to help fill in. To me, for macro, ext flash is quite essential, as it allows you to take the pic with a small apteure (F8) and faster shutter speed. I would say 98% of my shots are with ext bounce flash. hope my 2c helps __________________ My Gallery: http://www.tchuanye.smugmug.com/ Eqpt: http://www.tchuanye.smugmug.com/gallery/271702

3rd March 2005	#2
Firefox Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bedok Posts: 716	Switch to manual focus mode and focus manually. Either that or bring the camera back a little.

3rd March 2005	#3
sunkist Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 564	Hi all, Most of the time, i will use the Marco mode for marco shots. Somehow i feel i will let the camera take care of the setting while i be more comfortable/relax with only the composition of photos. I think it might be some reason why Shierly can't get a decent shot. 1) she didnt use the "marco mode" , but the working distance is 5cm 2) She might have enable the MF (not sure if this affect) 3) she might be a little bit less than 5cm. Hope it helps. =)

4th March 2005	#11
tankm Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,619	Some interesting links on macro: http://www.mplonsky.com/photo/article.htm

4th March 2005	#12
Shierly Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Punggol Posts: 84	Thank you to all of the experts above. Very useful advice. By the way, i use 'Macro mode", did try on AF and MF. Adjusted my camera, move inner or further to get the object clear and sharp, but seem the distance is more than 5cm in order to get the perfect image. Will it be my camera problem? Perhaps, i need to follow Lifeworld, add a +4 filter and play with it again. Er... May i know whether do u guys use software to macro the photo as well? because i can't get the object so large on my cam LCD screen during shooting.