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Thread: How to convince Canon user to buy into 4/3?

  1. #1
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    Default How to convince Canon user to buy into 4/3?

    Hi, while typing this in this forum, my sister whom I am trying to convince is also looking at this forum


    Anyway, she is a Canon only user, EOS 5 with 24mm, 75-300 and 28-80 (Tamron?) lens and 540EZ flash. Now I also have a EOS 33, 24mm, 50mm, 70-200/4.0L (to be sold) with 420EX flash. All the gears we have are compatible somehow. Now the problem would be, I am free and determined to break free from stupid Canon digital SLR, even if I have to sell off my beloved 24/2.8 (I will still use it for B&W anyway). But my sister is not too keen on that (married chicken go with chicken saying haha).

    Switching to Nikon is not a good choice, being they have the same lens range as Canon generally. My sister like wide angle (like me hehe), so a 24mm becomes a 28.8mm on a 350D. The E300 with the 11-22 and 14-45 gives a very nice range for streetshooting, indoor shots.

    Comeon, help me with some ideas.
    Christopher

  2. #2

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    try sell everything first ...

    but dont regret ah

  3. #3

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    show her the Oly TV advertisment......

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluestrike
    show her the Oly TV advertisment......

    Where? My eyes nowadays sticking to monitor leh

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    Olympus is probably trying (hard) to figure out the answer to that question themselves.

    Anyway, if you're looking to do indoor shooting, isn't it more desirable to have cleaner images at the higher ISOs? Besides, you'll end up making losses when switching, so why not stick with what you have and get a lens which suits you? The third party lenses are also worth looking at (there's the upcoming sigma 10-20, 30/1.4, etc.).

  6. #6

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    My 2 cents okay?

    Not sure how into photgraphy both of you will go into eventually. But if she and you plan to do wildlife then investment in a sizeable zoom.

    The 4/3 system results a significantly smaller lens size and weight without compromising on lens brightness and speed. So that is one plus point.

    Consider the age of your lens...The following link may prove useful.

    http://www.four-thirds.org/en/index_01.htm

    In my own humble opinion, lens should be optimised and give the correct optical image to the sensor in the correct size.

  7. #7

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    It would be benificial if you could state (make bullet points for yourself) what's wrong with your existing system and what advantages the Oly 4/3 has to offer. That itself will provide you with your answer.

  8. #8

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    My reasons for having chosen a 4/3 Oly system (not in order of priority)

    a) Newbie and don't mind trying new standards (ie, no baggage of legacy)
    b) Price factor (bought it at very inexpensive price)
    c) Kit Lens very light - easy for lady user
    d) Novel new digital standard
    e) Solid and sturdy built - look professional/stylish
    f) 8 megapixels
    g) Dust reduction CCD
    h) Easy to use functions for new user
    i) Nice rich color
    j) Good lineup of lens in case I wish to grow and upgrade

    Hope this helps
    Serene
    Last edited by serene; 24th February 2005 at 11:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serene
    My reasons for having chosen a 4/3 Oly system (not in order of priority)

    a) Newbie and don't mind trying new standards (ie, no baggage of legacy)
    b) Price factor (bought it at very inexpensive price)
    c) Kit Lens very light - easy for lady user
    d) Novel new digital standard
    e) Solid and sturdy built - look professional/stylish
    f) 8 megapixels
    g) Dust reduction CCD
    h) Easy to use functions for new user
    i) Nice rich color
    j) Good lineup of lens in case I wish to grow and upgrade

    Hope this helps
    Serene
    Well Said...
    I brought it for its portability vesitile vs price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theITguy
    Switching to Nikon is not a good choice, being they have the same lens range as Canon generally. My sister like wide angle (like me hehe), so a 24mm becomes a 28.8mm on a 350D. The E300 with the 11-22 and 14-45 gives a very nice range for streetshooting, indoor shots.
    ur decision stamps from a lens that does not give accurate focus on a Canon DSLR?

    anyway, 10-22 on the 350D becomes 16-35, wider vs 22-44 for the 11-22 on E300

    Also, 350D will have almost eveything serene mention except for the dust reduction CCD.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by theITguy

    Switching to Nikon is not a good choice, being they have the same lens range as Canon generally. My sister like wide angle (like me hehe), so a 24mm becomes a 28.8mm on a 350D. The E300 with the 11-22 and 14-45 gives a very nice range for streetshooting, indoor shots.

    Christopher
    I tot 4/3 sensor have 2x crop factor... not really wonderful if you are going wide... excellent for teles tho
    Gallery | Facebook Page Spreading the Good photography.

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    Thanks for all the input, and I do hope all these will also help others who are thinking to jump of or make their decisions.

    My considerations:
    1. Price
    2. Size
    3. Quality of output without much post processing
    4. Ease to adapt
    5. Accessories
    6. Spot metering or something that is as good that she believes

    What if she buys the Canon 350D and keep existing kit:
    1. She will get a kit len
    2. She can use back all lens and flash
    3. The EOS 5 will become antique and kept in the dry cabinet (she lazy to clear the films)
    4. She lose the Wide Factor (24mm vs 28mm on Kit len)
    5. She gains at tele end (not much use for her)
    6. She will get a usable ISO 800

    What if she buys the Canon 350D and sell existing kit:
    1. She will get about $1K on existing kit
    2. She gets a 420EX at $250 2nd hand
    3. She get the kit len
    4. She might get the 10-22 and gets the wider 16-35mm (35mm terms)
    5. She lose tele end (not a problem with kit len for portrait)
    6. She will get a usable ISO 800

    What if she buys the E300 and sell existing kit:
    1. She will get the kit len
    2. She will get about $1K on existing kit
    3. She will need a new flash FL-36 for $XXX
    4. She might get a 11-22 and gets the 22-44mm (35mm terms)
    5. She will get a usable ISO 400

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by theITguy
    I am free and determined to break free from stupid Canon digital SLR,
    wow... agreed... jokin

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN
    I tot 4/3 sensor have 2x crop factor... not really wonderful if you are going wide... excellent for teles tho
    tecnically it has no crop factor, its a full frame sensor, as it's not 35mm standerd but conforms to 4/3 standerd where full frame happens to have 2x field of view equivalent of 35mm full frame cameras....
    anyway all thier lenses are designed to give 'proper' fov equiv, like 28-90, not wierld focal lenghs due to crop factor.
    btw since it's a new standerd there are no legacy lens to give wierld equiv focal lenghs... except thru 3rd party adaptors...

    btw, the canon has a 1.6x crop factor so 24mm has a 36mm equiv fov...
    Last edited by hammer_400; 25th February 2005 at 12:14 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by theITguy
    Hi, while typing this in this forum, my sister whom I am trying to convince is also looking at this forum


    Anyway, she is a Canon only user, EOS 5 with 24mm, 75-300 and 28-80 (Tamron?) lens and 540EZ flash. Now I also have a EOS 33, 24mm, 50mm, 70-200/4.0L (to be sold) with 420EX flash. All the gears we have are compatible somehow. Now the problem would be, I am free and determined to break free from stupid Canon digital SLR, even if I have to sell off my beloved 24/2.8 (I will still use it for B&W anyway). But my sister is not too keen on that (married chicken go with chicken saying haha).

    Switching to Nikon is not a good choice, being they have the same lens range as Canon generally. My sister like wide angle (like me hehe), so a 24mm becomes a 28.8mm on a 350D. The E300 with the 11-22 and 14-45 gives a very nice range for streetshooting, indoor shots.

    Comeon, help me with some ideas.
    Christopher
    Hello Christopher,

    Both yourself & your sister have considerable investment in the Canon system. Every camera system has it's pluses & minuses. Why are you leaving Canon ? I'm asking this because I see constant numbers of switchers to the E-system from the C & N camp at DPreview's Oly forums & would like to know your reasons.

    Are you frustrated because by coming from a "Full Frame" film system into digital, the smaller imaging format has affect on the FOV of the lenses away from the wide angle you prefer ?

    If both you & sis share the same love for street & indoor; for a fair comparison; assuming you're starting from scratch, the discreet E300 is a good candidate. But the Canon 350D with the EF-S lens kit is competitive in FEATURES. You will likely receive the Oly faster aperture vs Canon less noise arguement as well. So how do both products pan out in real world use.

    Just ask if there're unhappy E300 users here; tell them if familiarity & practise has removed any initial misgivings they have with the camera. And most important of all, check out their assessment of the image quality from the camera.

    The 350D is relatively newer than the E300, so I should not even attempt to make a comparison since the former isn't extensively field tested. But the E300 has a reputation for excellent build quality for the price, you get a spot meter, relatively faster yet compact wide angle lense that have a reputation for being sharp to the corners at wide apertures. You get to frame & compose your pics with a brighter viewfinder.

    You favourite lens carried from the Canon line is the 24mm, the Olympus 11-22 & the canon 11-22 covers this nice field of view; but Olympus gives you that angle with a brighter image.

    Perhaps someone could share their experiences between the Canon vs the Oly mirror 'clack' or how well older EZ flashes perform with digital bodies :-)

    Cheers,
    Last edited by chancy; 25th February 2005 at 12:25 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpenza
    ur decision stamps from a lens that does not give accurate focus on a Canon DSLR?

    anyway, 10-22 on the 350D becomes 16-35, wider vs 22-44 for the 11-22 on E300

    Also, 350D will have almost eveything serene mention except for the dust reduction CCD.

    I am a simple user who likes to take pictures, just like my sister. You might find that I am naive or childish in how I make decisions, but this is a what an end customer feels if he/she comes into such a situation. It is an instinct I guess?

    True that the 10-22 is a choice. But I also want to let her know that not everything must be Canon the best somehow (Nikon for her only FM2).... Likewise I choose SingTel for my mobile, Pacnet for internet and Starhub for emailing.

  16. #16
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    it's your decision to make and we're here to perhaps help you make a better and more informed one.

    4/3 is definitely a pretty interesting system to get into, especially with the E300 being so attractively priced. maybe, try out at the shop (or borrow from someone here) and see if you and your sis like it. every system has its quirks though. not sure whether the 4/3 system has any problems that are not well documented yet.

    kahheng recently sold away quite a bit of 4/3 gear. If i didn't have the 20D then, I would probably sell off my 300D/lenses and accessories for his whole lot.

  17. #17

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    One dSLR camera that you 'really' can bring when you go for tour or oversea trip.

    Quote Originally Posted by serene
    My reasons for having chosen a 4/3 Oly system (not in order of priority)

    a) Newbie and don't mind trying new standards (ie, no baggage of legacy)
    b) Price factor (bought it at very inexpensive price)
    c) Kit Lens very light - easy for lady user
    d) Novel new digital standard
    e) Solid and sturdy built - look professional/stylish
    f) 8 megapixels
    g) Dust reduction CCD
    h) Easy to use functions for new user
    i) Nice rich color
    j) Good lineup of lens in case I wish to grow and upgrade

    Hope this helps
    Serene

  18. #18

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    Just some humble pictures of the E-300
    http://www.studiowerkz.info/photoblo....php?cat=10002

    most of the pictures are out of the camera with little or tweaking @ all.

    let the pictures speak for themselves

  19. #19
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    Hi chancy,

    For all I know, I will not get a L quality len in EF-S mount. They will need to protect the 1Ds and 1D area of users in the premium lens. This is where I think Canon/Nikon is getting a headache how/what to make to let their users happy, and an advantage to the 4/3 system IMO.

    The other thing is after the crop, they do not have a decent wide prime. The widest is the 20mm, pretty sad. I am a prime shooter, who do not know how to use a zoom (yes I am not comfortable using zoom, and stupid to learn how to use one). For my sister, maybe she is ok with zooms.

    And the crop again, the 28-80 len becomes 44.8-128mm like, 75-300 becomes 120-480mm like. 24mm becomes a useless 38.4mm like.... all funny "focal length" (in case someone argue, but cropped loh dunno how to explain technically). Only the 28-80 is keepable, but it is a Tamron.... meaning calibration is a nono if misfocusing happens..... If buy the kit len this becomes kind of useless, dun buy kit len this might have problem. End of the day all 3 lens somehow does not have purpose or not that useful.

    Picture quality are subjective. I myself believe more in lens than what a body/sensor do. The ISO 800 is actually not that bad, afterall it is just a picture for leisure viewing. Printing on 4R size? Just send for printing, not an issue for the E300 from the samples. Printing on 8R size? Run it through Neat Image and I get very decent picture (I hope). We are using it for family, kids shot and outdoor street snaps. Imagine I took a picture, come out misfocus, you missed that moment. I am better off using my Panasonic FX2, cheaper, simpler and does not misfocus (yeah, deeper DOF) or my film with manual focus. Why give them (Canon, Nikon) money to earn when Panasonic/Olympus can provide me with solutions?



    Quote Originally Posted by chancy
    Hello Christopher,

    Both yourself & your sister have considerable investment in the Canon system. Every camera system has it's pluses & minuses. Why are you leaving Canon ? I'm asking this because I see constant numbers of switchers to the E-system from the C & N camp at DPreview's Oly forums & would like to know your reasons.

    Are you frustrated because by coming from a "Full Frame" film system into digital, the smaller imaging format has affect on the FOV of the lenses away from the wide angle you prefer ?

    If both you & sis share the same love for street & indoor; for a fair comparison; assuming you're starting from scratch, the discreet E300 is a good candidate. But the Canon 350D with the EF-S lens kit is competitive in FEATURES. You will likely receive the Oly faster aperture vs Canon less noise arguement as well. So how do both products pan out in real world use.

    Just ask if there're unhappy E300 users here; tell them if familiarity & practise has removed any initial misgivings they have with the camera. And most important of all, check out their assessment of the image quality from the camera.

    The 350D is relatively newer than the E300, so I should not even attempt to make a comparison since the former isn't extensively field tested. But the E300 has a reputation for excellent build quality for the price, you get a spot meter, relatively faster yet compact wide angle lense that have a reputation for being sharp to the corners at wide apertures. You get to frame & compose your pics with a brighter viewfinder.

    You favourite lens carried from the Canon line is the 24mm, the Olympus 11-22 & the canon 11-22 covers this nice field of view; but Olympus gives you that angle with a brighter image.

    Perhaps someone could share their experiences between the Canon vs the Oly mirror 'clack' or how well older EZ flashes perform with digital bodies :-)

    Cheers,

  20. #20

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    hi!

    you already made up your mind abt switching, so gd luck on your sales and have fun on your new gears!


    i personally dislike the box shape of the e-300 but its just me, i also dislike some of the digicams with so many buttons all over the camera (a1) Its a pain to use. I view looks as one important factor as well as function. I get so bloodly confuse when i use a nikon automated SLR camera (not used to it) it always that nikon cams look very techno, cheem. Yes i'm stupid (my boss thinks so too). Until today i cannot figure where to turn the shutter speed for the fuji 602z when i'm on manual mode.

    i still find that canon cameras quite 'easy' to get use to. The lens system is clearer to understand and complete. Only thing i perfer nikon over canon is the naming of the shutter and aperture and dislike canon when i need to shoot with the mirror up (so many steps)

    Almost everything i adopt rather easily from the mid range eos (3 days) and i dun fumble to remember the settings to the low range (a few hours) and into the pro range (2 days or so). Its just the ease of use from a digital ixus to the G2 to the 1D. Even my wife can operate the D30 or 10D with minimal fuss (for her to review shots and shoot and tell her that * button is for focusing). I gotten a A2 (eos5) sometime ago and the only time i when to the manual is to look for the custom function's function.

    i not that pro canon (the pro1 also very cheen and slow to react)(contax and lecia cameras are so much more beautiful) but i feel as canon users the 350D will ease both of your learning (a new camera) more than new gear. For me i must like to use it for the camera to become useful. Seriously i never got the hang of some of the cameras in the market because i'm ease into using a system that translates the ease to use from P&S to eos1.

    I really never got use to the F70 from nikon after using it for 8-9 months. Its egged me alot and the functions are so confusing to me. The S2pro also strumbled me abit, sian.

    Maybe your sister is a little like me, i get comfortable with seeing great design (macs, canon etc...) and familar buttons and knobs and switchers that i will not get out of this comfort zone. Hand me a eos630 or eos3 or even 350D, i will quite handle with relative ease.

    rant to much again.

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