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Thread: gig photography

  1. #1

    Default gig photography

    hi everyone,
    recently an events company wants to engage me to help them take gig photos when they bring in some bands to perform here.

    problem is it's a help them basis,tht means no payment but they'll pay for my drinks and food & they'll also hook me up if other similar companies who need my services in which i can discuss monetary terms with those companies.

    i personally dnt really like the deal but it's a gd way to build up my portfolio.

    what do you guys think?

  2. #2

    Default Re: gig photography

    Quote Originally Posted by ahming111 View Post
    hi everyone,
    recently an events company wants to engage me to help them take gig photos when they bring in some bands to perform here.

    problem is it's a help them basis,tht means no payment but they'll pay for my drinks and food & they'll also hook me up if other similar companies who need my services in which i can discuss monetary terms with those companies.

    i personally dnt really like the deal but it's a gd way to build up my portfolio.

    what do you guys think?
    It really doesn't matter what we think. You already know your answer.

    Regards,

    Hart

  3. #3

    Default Re: gig photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    It really doesn't matter what we think. You already know your answer.

    Regards,

    Hart
    hi,
    thanx for your reply.

    any idea of a fair price i can ask for?

    i mean i'm just starting out for the fun of it and building up my portfolio, so i wldn't want to harm the relationship with them as i cld use those contacts that they can pull for me

  4. #4

    Default Re: gig photography

    Quote Originally Posted by ahming111 View Post
    hi,
    thanx for your reply.

    any idea of a fair price i can ask for?

    i mean i'm just starting out for the fun of it and building up my portfolio, so i wldn't want to harm the relationship with them as i cld use those contacts that they can pull for me
    If my prediction is correct, you won't get any job referral from them if their promise is to give you some leads.

    Many have done the same and got nothing. What makes you think that you are so special that they would promote you?

    Sorry to sound harsh... But just trying to save someone falling into the same pit over and over. But the choice is yours.

    In terms of charging for gig, I am not sure as I am not familiar with this area. Others might have a better idea on what to charge.

    Regards,

    Hart

  5. #5

    Default Re: gig photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    If my prediction is correct, you won't get any job referral from them if their promise is to give you some leads.

    Many have done the same and got nothing. What makes you think that you are so special that they would promote you?

    Sorry to sound harsh... But just trying to save someone falling into the same pit over and over. But the choice is yours.

    In terms of charging for gig, I am not sure as I am not familiar with this area. Others might have a better idea on what to charge.

    Regards,

    Hart
    hey thanks man, no offence taken, gd point

  6. #6
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    Default Re: gig photography

    Hi ahming111

    If you intend to charge, u have to have certain ability in taking good shots to be fair to your clients. Hence, there's an amount of responsibility that u got to bear.

    For this gig that you mentioned, i assume they have asked you to submit your portfolio and they selected you after reviewing your portfolio? If so, then there would be certain expectations too from them. To me, food and drinks are not enough as compensation. At the veeeerrry minimal, they should also throw in transport allowance..
    There are other ways to gain experience. Heck, i will even cover my coy's event if i need to gain experience/build my portfolio. Or go do the instant photo booth type assignments

    Frankly, even if they do refer you to others, how would you charge? They would have referred you as a freebie....don't sell yourself short.

  7. #7

    Default Re: gig photography

    Quote Originally Posted by ahming111 View Post
    i mean i'm just starting out for the fun of it and building up my portfolio, so i wldn't want to harm the relationship with them as i cld use those contacts that they can pull for me
    Don't want you to be disillusioned, but unless you can get that promise in writing (aka contract/agreement), it's really not worth anything. Even then, it's still not guaranteed, even a check can bounce.

    Seen this? Should I Work for Free?

    I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with doing a free gig or two when starting out if you decide there are clear benefits to you, and you know your own work (or lack of experience in a particular area) doesn't have the kind of value you're able to properly charge for yet. There's making a calculated decision to barter services for experience/opportunity and there's being exploited. You might wish to find out more about stuff like how many other photogs will be there? What kind of access do you get? Who retains rights? Usage rights? Portfolio use ok (see below)? Etc, get it all in writing if possible. If you can even get that far with them, you know they're not just out to find a fool they can exploit. But ... It's quite likely that they'll just turn to the next person who's happy to work for free food / _______.

    But you have to be confident and realistic about the value you bring to the table. If you have nothing or little to offer, aka the company is assuming all the risk in having a someone who may or may not be able to deliver anything, then there's really not much to negotiate. Take their terms or leave it.

    That said, if you've never done it before, go for it with your eyes open. Life's short. Even if you may feel a sense of frustration with shortchanged and exploited after the event, the experience will surely inform all your future decisions re: such engagements. If you're happy enough with doing it for 'fun', you might find it rewarding. *shrug*

    Similar thread: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/photo...otography.html

    Quote Originally Posted by ellery View Post
    This is a very small niche market international and locally. Our biggest star photographer in this area is a guy named Eddie Sung. He's shot both locally and internationally both as a paid shooter and for his own pleasure - however his is a story with a twist. He retired early and to keep himself busy he took up photography and loved music.... His initial portfolio was from shots taken at concerts international and local - look he could afford to fly to the US for a concert that tickets are so hot if you had to scalp they would cost $500 - $600 US.

    The problem with this is that for big named gigs if you are shoot as a accredited shooter you have to jostle with the pool which is about 4 to 10 photographers in the pit for the first 3 to 4 songs max. You are not allowed to be there the whole concert and if the lead singer gets huffy it can suddenly become a 1 song shoot or you get eject out of the pit because he/she/it took a dislike to your face. If you think you can buy a ticket to shoot from the stands - well look carefully at the ticket - it say for the dollar you paid the show organizer you have no rights to a seat, you can be asked to leave if the show organizer says so, you cannot make any recordings by sound, video or stills. Bouncers normally come to take your cards and camera gear from you if you are caught shooting. Also most gigs have a bag search for camera with long lens.

    After said that it is fun to do if you enjoy it - did a series of jobs years back when younger in the film days and a couple more after switching to digital. Best gig I did was covering the Phua Choo Kang the musical - fun and it paid well 1.4K for 7 hours. Market sort of collapsed after that prices went south so bad it was like we pay you $400 plus credit line no rights to use pictures for portfolio all right retained by company hiring. Which translated to me like WDF you think I just fell off the tree ???
    [Note: Not a full-time photog, speaking from a freelance graphic designer's POV. Recipient of offers for exposure and future work.]
    Last edited by kandinsky; 7th November 2012 at 02:45 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: gig photography

    Don't be naive.

    They will just make use of you till you wake up and start asking for money. Then they will simply move on to the next goondoo after your usability to them had expired.

    You have portfolio but the astute industry players can tell if those portfolio are for free work or not, simply by association to those companies who made use of photographers.

  9. #9

    Default Re: gig photography

    Think about it, would you agree to photograph the Standard Chartered Marathon for free?

    Just about everyone knows how much money goes into that event....so basically such a request would simply mean they have budget for everything but you.

    I wonder on average how many photo groups get "volunteer exclusives" requests from organisers that obviously at the very least can afford $200+ for a few hours work.

    On the other hand if it is a charity or organisation i support, why not.

    There are lots of opportunities to shoot gig photos. If the gigs they are offering you is mainly at Esplanade Outdoor Theatre, no point-lah.
    You wont see me much less remember me but i am the guy who makes you look good.

  10. #10

    Default Re: gig photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Reportage View Post
    On the other hand if it is a charity or organisation i support, why not.
    Charity also must see. Some charity org are huge and their donors are pouring in 4 digits, 5 digits, even 6 digits or 7 digits. They are not interested in asking a poor photographer to work for free. They spend their efforts talking to big cooperations, their heads, their heads' wives, or their tax accountants. They will tell you, no need free lah, we pay you, if you want to donate, can just donate normally like public, now don't waste my time and send the photos invoice quick.

    On the contrary, the people asking for free are often non-charity org, but small fry events companies, you shoot for them free today, next year they themselves might not be around anymore.

  11. #11
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: gig photography

    you probably can print some postcards selling to students or fans for compensating your income for shooting for free food and drink and tickets.

    but than the companies will forbid you for doing so, they will claim they own the copyrights of the photos you taken, since you have been compensate with food and drink and tickets. yes, they will win on this.

    and even you manage to print some postcards, you will notice only few postcards being sold on the first week, cause you soon found out a few jokers buy some postcard from you, than they scan and put it online, so all the fans can download it for free.




    anyway, if it does make you happy, just go ahead and shoot,
    making money from photography is not that easy and not everybody cup of tea.

    if don't believe, than please don't take my word, try a year or two to find out yourself.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  12. #12

    Default Re: gig photography

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
    Charity also must see. Some charity org are huge and their donors are pouring in 4 digits, 5 digits, even 6 digits or 7 digits. They are not interested in asking a poor photographer to work for free. They spend their efforts talking to big cooperations, their heads, their heads' wives, or their tax accountants. They will tell you, no need free lah, we pay you, if you want to donate, can just donate normally like public, now don't waste my time and send the photos invoice quick.

    On the contrary, the people asking for free are often non-charity org, but small fry events companies, you shoot for them free today, next year they themselves might not be around anymore.
    As i said, if it is a charity or organisation that i support then not really an issue as usually is their regular staff call me one. Its another thing however if an events management company contact me to shoot on behalf of a charity. usually my response is if the charity can afford an events management company, they can bloody hell pay for my work there.

    Nowadays, even see charities outsource street work. Basically they wear office attire and rather then straight donation, ask you to sign some $30+ a month plan for the charity. Almost as bad as expecting people to pay for tithe rather then asking.
    Last edited by Reportage; 9th November 2012 at 10:51 AM.
    You wont see me much less remember me but i am the guy who makes you look good.

  13. #13

    Default Re: gig photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Reportage View Post
    As i said, if it is a charity or organisation that i support then not really an issue as usually is their regular staff call me one. Its another thing however if an events management company contact me to shoot on behalf of a charity. usually my response is if the charity can afford an events management company, they can bloody hell pay for my work there.
    Yeah, its the events company that wants people to do charity for the events company, while the events company then went on to charge their client the full rates plus mark up.
    WTB Manfrotto RC4 L Bracket

  14. #14
    Member Foxshade's Avatar
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    Default Re: gig photography

    First thought that occurs in my head after reading the "help" request for the gig is as follow:

    If I were to go to a restaurant and tell them: Can I have my meal this once FOC?
    I'll help you clean up my table after my meal, and I'll spread the word about how nice the food you serve here, so you can charge my friends whom I introduce to this restaurant.
    A true photograph need not be explained, nor can it be contained in words.
    ~Ansel Adams

  15. #15
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    Default Re: gig photography

    Quote Originally Posted by ahming111 View Post
    hi everyone,
    recently an events company wants to engage me to help them take gig photos when they bring in some bands to perform here.

    problem is it's a help them basis,tht means no payment but they'll pay for my drinks and food & they'll also hook me up if other similar companies who need my services in which i can discuss monetary terms with those companies.

    i personally dnt really like the deal but it's a gd way to build up my portfolio.

    what do you guys think?
    Payment to you is in the form of 'food and drinks' a very small pittance if you ask me but on a bright side if you take this
    as the beginning for you to jump in to gain experience for covering events then it's your choice and a challenge.

    Every one gotta start somewhere for anything albeit photography.
    5D/5D3/Zeiss/28-85/100 F2/200 F4/50 F1.4/70-200/24-85/85 F1.4
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  16. #16
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: gig photography

    you don't want to be known as a cheap/free photographer
    i'd rather do 1 big paying job than to do 10 cheap jobs

  17. #17

    Default Re: gig photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeisser View Post
    Payment to you is in the form of 'food and drinks' a very small pittance if you ask me but on a bright side if you take this
    as the beginning for you to jump in to gain experience for covering events then it's your choice and a challenge.

    Every one gotta start somewhere for anything albeit photography.
    I would say best move for any beginner serious about making money out of photography is to find mentoring under a working photographer.
    You wont see me much less remember me but i am the guy who makes you look good.

  18. #18

    Default Re: gig photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Reportage View Post
    I would say best move for any beginner serious about making money out of photography is to find mentoring under a working photographer.
    Yes, agree.

    However, as general observation, many think when it comes to photography is $$$.

    People might argue long and hard about how passionate they are about photography, if you dig deeper... the real intention is always MONEY!!!

    To do something long term, you need more reason than just money.



    Regards,

    Hart

  19. #19

    Default Re: gig photography

    A pro-photog friend told me this incident he encountered recently where at a club photography gig event a young photographer had to be dragged out of the club as he is dead drunk and making a spectacle of himself.

    My first thinking was maybe he was paid in food and drinks so he made it worth it. Maybe in his mind it goes like "CB! KNN! Pay by food and drink only! I am going to get $200 per hour worth of alcohol! Now bartender give me another round of that long island. And that angmo style lamb satay too! Salute to him for making it a nightmare for the events company.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: gig photography

    Quote Originally Posted by sjackal View Post
    A pro-photog friend told me this incident he encountered recently where at a club photography gig event a young photographer had to be dragged out of the club as he is dead drunk and making a spectacle of himself.

    My first thinking was maybe he was paid in food and drinks so he made it worth it. Maybe in his mind it goes like "CB! KNN! Pay by food and drink only! I am going to get $200 per hour worth of alcohol! Now bartender give me another round of that long island. And that angmo style lamb satay too! Salute to him for making it a nightmare for the events company.
    Like that also can... I must salute those who "keng" all the way.

    That's why it pays to get people who help your business rather then trashing it.

    Hart

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