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Thread: Does Lemon Law covers grey units?

  1. #21

    Default Re: Does Lemon Law covers grey units?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma View Post
    I will explain this using finance and economics.

    Let B be the price of any arbitrary equipment "E" transacted in the Buy N Sell section.

    Let P be the open-market average price for brand new "E", at authorized or lemon-covered dealers.

    Risk-protection premium "R" = P - B.
    For any R exceeding the buyer's risk-adversity tradeoff, the buyer would elect to buy at B (BNS) because it is the risk-discount is more than the risk-protection-premium.

    R depends on how stringently the warranty can be "enforced" or how rigorous the warranty regime is. if the warranty protection is very strong then R appears to be more "value"...reducing demand in BnS.
    but 99% of the time BNS is without warranty, so you are not comparing apples to apples, or maybe i just dont get it.

  2. #22
    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does Lemon Law covers grey units?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma View Post
    I will explain this using finance and economics.

    Let B be the price of any arbitrary equipment "E" transacted in the Buy N Sell section.

    Let P be the open-market average price for brand new "E", at authorized or lemon-covered dealers.

    Risk-protection premium "R" = P - B.
    For any R exceeding the buyer's risk-adversity tradeoff, the buyer would elect to buy at B (BNS) because it is the risk-discount is more than the risk-protection-premium.

    R depends on how stringently the warranty can be "enforced" or how rigorous the warranty regime is. if the warranty protection is very strong then R appears to be more "value"...reducing demand in BnS.
    ... confused....
    shaddap and just shoot .... up close
    Walkeast

  3. #23

    Default Re: Does Lemon Law covers grey units?

    does second hand sales in BnS really qualified under the lemon law? most of the time we deal with fellow forumers COD and the buyer doesn't get any receipt.

    how to proof if a sale has been done if there is no receipt?

  4. #24
    Senior Member G-man's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma

    I will explain this using finance and economics.

    Let B be the price of any arbitrary equipment "E" transacted in the Buy N Sell section.

    Let P be the open-market average price for brand new "E", at authorized or lemon-covered dealers.

    Risk-protection premium "R" = P - B.
    For any R exceeding the buyer's risk-adversity tradeoff, the buyer would elect to buy at B (BNS) because it is the risk-discount is more than the risk-protection-premium.

    R depends on how stringently the warranty can be "enforced" or how rigorous the warranty regime is. if the warranty protection is very strong then R appears to be more "value"...reducing demand in BnS.
    And for those of us whose first language is English?

  5. #25

    Default Re: Does Lemon Law covers grey units?

    more easily understood as:

    buy and sell section cheaper because no warranty . but when warranty in brand new is very strongly enforced and buy sell price is close to brand new , buyers may choose brand new because of warranty.

    hence to be more attractive , second hand items would have to be priced more competitively meaning cheaper .

    of course for items out of production eg 50 mm f 1.0 , etc this principle does not apply
    宁愿遇见丢失幼崽的母熊,也不愿碰上做蠢事的愚人

  6. #26

    Default Re: Does Lemon Law covers grey units?

    a items if it new and with proof of purchase, lemom law applied. But not those can eat food la. I got a Furby toy from Toy r us. It does not come with warranty. after 10 days, it come to a stop. dun move at all. write to the main office, offer a 1 to 1 exchange.

  7. #27
    Senior Member G-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma
    more easily understood as:

    buy and sell section cheaper because no warranty . but when warranty in brand new is very strongly enforced and buy sell price is close to brand new , buyers may choose brand new because of warranty.

    hence to be more attractive , second hand items would have to be priced more competitively meaning cheaper .

    of course for items out of production eg 50 mm f 1.0 , etc this principle does not apply
    Aaaaah ok ok. Sorry ah, my macks fail. Hehehe.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Does Lemon Law covers grey units?

    Quote Originally Posted by yrh0413 View Post
    does second hand sales in BnS really qualified under the lemon law? most of the time we deal with fellow forumers COD and the buyer doesn't get any receipt.

    how to proof if a sale has been done if there is no receipt?
    no, it does not. failed point 2 in my earlier post. i guess most readers here relate second hand as BNS. No, it means second hand bought from retailers.

  9. #29
    Senior Member G-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerOyster

    no, it does not. failed point 2 in my earlier post. i guess most readers here relate second hand as BNS. No, it means second hand bought from retailers.
    Maybe now on BnS, buyers and sellers must have written agreement with signature & NRIC number for any personal warranty. Hehehe.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Does Lemon Law covers grey units?

    another question is , does lemon law cover citrus fruits ? what happens if my lemon is a lemon ?
    宁愿遇见丢失幼崽的母熊,也不愿碰上做蠢事的愚人

  11. #31

    Default Re: Does Lemon Law covers grey units?

    Quote Originally Posted by G-man View Post
    Maybe now on BnS, buyers and sellers must have written agreement with signature & NRIC number for any personal warranty. Hehehe.
    Actually, i always question myself, what is "personal warranty". so i prefer the term "check on the spot".

  12. #32
    Senior Member G-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma
    another question is , does lemon law cover citrus fruits ? what happens if my lemon is a lemon ?
    Sucks to be you then. Hahahaha.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerOyster

    Actually, i always question myself, what is "personal warranty". so i prefer the term "check on the spot".
    Sadly you are right. The term personal warranty these days hold no water. BUT for those of us who DO value our reputation, I strongly believe in still offering a personal warranty and actually standing by it.

    Some may say its dumb of me but to be perfectly honest, because I won't like to be screwed by others, I try to honour my agreement with my buyers too. Unless the item I sell is STILL under warranty then different story.

  14. #34

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    Lemon Law covers grey units, red units, yellow units... It doesn't discriminate against any product that is of a different color

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by G-man

    Clearly you were when you made that remark. Someone has backed up the claim in black and white for 2nd hand goods, while you sir, have just said it did not include private sales.

    I am not saying you are wrong, or that the person backing up the claim was right. However, UNTIL such time that things are confirmed in WRITING from an authoritative body, it's still just guess work.
    You're cute. ;-)

  16. #36
    Senior Member G-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ageha

    You're cute. ;-)
    Why thank you.

  17. #37

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    Let's make it very clear here

    Lemon law only covers Business to Consumers (B to C). It doesn't cover consumer to consumer (C to C)

    So this clearly rules out any BNS sales where one individual is selling to another individual.

    And this also clearly covers shops selling to individuals, be it Grey or Authorised.

    So no need to argue so much here.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Does Lemon Law covers grey units?

    Quote Originally Posted by donut88 View Post
    Let's make it very clear here

    Lemon law only covers Business to Consumers (B to C). It doesn't cover consumer to consumer (C to C)

    So this clearly rules out any BNS sales where one individual is selling to another individual.

    And this also clearly covers shops selling to individuals, be it Grey or Authorised.

    So no need to argue so much here.
    Exactly. Thus it is now better to buy from shop than to buy from BNS, unless the price is right, which most of the time its way wrong. Will pay 70-80% of brand new street price for pre owned gear if buying from pre-owned shops. But will only pay 30-50% from hobbyists. Especially with the amount of wolves around.

  19. #39
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does Lemon Law covers grey units?

    Quote Originally Posted by G-man View Post
    Sadly you are right. The term personal warranty these days hold no water. BUT for those of us who DO value our reputation, I strongly believe in still offering a personal warranty and actually standing by it.
    Some may say its dumb of me but to be perfectly honest, because I won't like to be screwed by others, I try to honour my agreement with my buyers too. Unless the item I sell is STILL under warranty then different story.
    The 'personal warranty' is offered black on white here, and after money changed hands it becomes part of the verbal agreement both parties have. Legally, it can be enforced. But to find out how serious the seller is, all it needs is the golden question of writing down all details on a sheet of paper
    EOS

  20. #40

    Default Re: Does Lemon Law covers grey units?

    Quote Originally Posted by SNAPDINER View Post
    Er..why are grey marketeers taught a lesson bcos of the Lemon Law? Why are people against grey marketeers, they are not cheating nor doing anything illegal. Anyway, I think the Lemon Law benefits grey marketeers in the sense they can speak with confidence to guarantee a full six months instead of 12 as the Law applies only for 6 mths. Also I am very sure, most of us who bot stuff from the grey market never have a very bad experience on the goods. It is no difference than say, you go Johor to buy lenses and bring it back. The grey marketeer merely brings it back here for you. In short, grey market gds are Not in anyway inferior.
    I also don't understand some people's hostility towards parallel importers. They are actually doing us, the consumers, a favour. Without them, the official channel will sell products at even higher prices because the parallel importers would not be there to provide some competition.

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