two

[zaren]

two schoolboys sharing a lighthearted moment while trying to flag down a taxi after their cross-country run at macritchie. shot from the pedestrian overhead bridge under the macritchie viaduct.

[eikin]

nice yellow

[zaren]

thanks eikin.....

[The_Cheat]

A much different perspective from your usual street-shooting style. But the moment captured is rather pathetic... for other than the nice colour that could immediately WOW people, what's next? No story, no anticipation... just two person waving at the roadside...

[VampTreSS]

Heh..

I choose to disagree with Adam..

To me, this is the best of your recent lot, Uncle Zaren..

The elements are all there -

1. Graphically - The lines juxtapose superbly to form a very graphic visual. If you want to talk about it having the 1/3 rule or what have you, that's fine by me.. Just that it's a lot simplier to me - The placement of the linear elements are pleasing to my eyes therefore I like it.

2. Visually - This is the main reason why I think it's superb. The colour composition is perfect. Again, graphically the colours are very well balanced where you have yellow on the left and again on the right.

3. Soul - Adam thinks there is no storyline. To me, that isn't the point here. Some pictures make statements, tell stories and then there are some pictures that tantalizes the sensory system. I don't think any one is better than the other, rather that they be appreciated for their own appeal. Of course the one that manages to not only stimulate your five senses but makes you think as well will be the best picture. But that's not what we're discussing here..

If you want a story though, Adam.. Something to connect you to the point of this picture and make therefore make it relevant for your human experience, this is my interpretation -

I see the two yellow lines on the left of the picture as being well defined, neat directional elements and yet to the eyes, they are still rigid as compared to the two boys on the right. Who although are blurred, contain energy, life and therefore contrast sharply against the predictability of the lines.

Chaos juxtaposed against order?

Then again the boy on the upper right has his arm stretched out as if to caution the other about breaking some invisible rule. So this chaos is not in total abandonment either. Which means after further examination, the picture that had seemed so clumsily assembled reveals itself to be extremely balanced.

Reminds you of life.. no?

So.. How can I not like this fantastic picture?

[ndroo]

Originally Posted by VampTreSS Heh.. I choose to disagree with Adam.. To me, this is the best of your recent lot, Uncle Zaren.. The elements are all there - 1. Graphically - The lines juxtapose superbly to form a very graphic visual. If you want to talk about it having the 1/3 rule or what have you, that's fine by me.. Just that it's a lot simplier to me - The placement of the linear elements are pleasing to my eyes therefore I like it. 2. Visually - This is the main reason why I think it's superb. The colour composition is perfect. Again, graphically the colours are very well balanced where you have yellow on the left and again on the right. 3. Soul - Adam thinks there is no storyline. To me, that isn't the point here. Some pictures make statements, tell stories and then there are some pictures that tantalizes the sensory system. I don't think any one is better than the other, rather that they be appreciated for their own appeal. Of course the one that manages to not only stimulate your five senses but makes you think as well will be the best picture. But that's not what we're discussing here.. If you want a story though, Adam.. Something to connect you to the point of this picture and make therefore make it relevant for your human experience, this is my interpretation - I see the two yellow lines on the left of the picture as being well defined, neat directional elements and yet to the eyes, they are still rigid as compared to the two boys on the right. Who although are blurred, contain energy, life and therefore contrast sharply against the predictability of the lines. Chaos juxtaposed against order? Then again the boy on the upper right has his arm stretched out as if to caution the other about breaking some invisible rule. So this chaos is not in total abandonment either. Which means after further examination, the picture that had seemed so clumsily assembled reveals itself to be extremely balanced. Reminds you of life.. no? So.. How can I not like this fantastic picture?

Okay ... I can't find so many words to write ... but I do like this photo too.

Look properly, it's like divided into 2. One on the left, and another on the right. The left, is the road with yellow lines ... cold & still. On the right, the happy kids having fun ... warmth & movement. I'm loving it

[The_Cheat]

Originally Posted by VampTreSS Heh.. I choose to disagree with Adam.. To me, this is the best of your recent lot, Uncle Zaren.. The elements are all there - 1. Graphically - The lines juxtapose superbly to form a very graphic visual. If you want to talk about it having the 1/3 rule or what have you, that's fine by me.. Just that it's a lot simplier to me - The placement of the linear elements are pleasing to my eyes therefore I like it. 2. Visually - This is the main reason why I think it's superb. The colour composition is perfect. Again, graphically the colours are very well balanced where you have yellow on the left and again on the right. 3. Soul - Adam thinks there is no storyline. To me, that isn't the point here. Some pictures make statements, tell stories and then there are some pictures that tantalizes the sensory system. I don't think any one is better than the other, rather that they be appreciated for their own appeal. Of course the one that manages to not only stimulate your five senses but makes you think as well will be the best picture. But that's not what we're discussing here.. If you want a story though, Adam.. Something to connect you to the point of this picture and make therefore make it relevant for your human experience, this is my interpretation - I see the two yellow lines on the left of the picture as being well defined, neat directional elements and yet to the eyes, they are still rigid as compared to the two boys on the right. Who although are blurred, contain energy, life and therefore contrast sharply against the predictability of the lines. Chaos juxtaposed against order? Then again the boy on the upper right has his arm stretched out as if to caution the other about breaking some invisible rule. So this chaos is not in total abandonment either. Which means after further examination, the picture that had seemed so clumsily assembled reveals itself to be extremely balanced. Reminds you of life.. no? So.. How can I not like this fantastic picture?

Haha~! Finally some interesting comments from someone... I'm not here for a rebuttal though, cos pictures speaks differently to each individual. Anyway, just to rebutt for the sake of rebutting, the yellow lines in this photo, runs parallel to the subjects, i.e. it doesn't lead to the subject. Furthermore, it doesn't fill 1/3 of the frame... and even if you think it does, it doesn't hold enough weight to "fill" the portion of the frame... I don't know whether you know what I'm trying to get at. Simply put, lines doesn't have the strength of an object or a shadow in filling a portion. Lines are however, more useful, to lead the eyes into seeing something...

Okay, technical aspects aside, I really couldn't rebutt you anymore. I mean, I'm at a loss of words whenever someone say how good the shot of the Afghan gal is... to me, that shot is just another portrait! Same as this, I guess.

Anyway, thanks for disagree with me. And next time hor, try not to use "Adam" so much... now everyone knows my name!! Man... if I didn't know you better, I would have thought that you're picking a fight with me!!

[VampTreSS]

Originally Posted by The_Cheat And next time hor, try not to use "Adam" so much... now everyone knows my name!! Man... if I didn't know you better, I would have thought that you're picking a fight with me!!

Opps!! Sorry sorry! I've been so comfortable with the name reference over at newbies thread I forgot where I am now.. Ok.. Next kopi on me (80 cents only lah.. cheap cheap )

Originally Posted by The_Cheat Anyway, just to rebutt for the sake of rebutting, the yellow lines in this photo, runs parallel to the subjects, i.e. it doesn't lead to the subject. Furthermore, it doesn't fill 1/3 of the frame... and even if you think it does, it doesn't hold enough weight to "fill" the portion of the frame... I don't know whether you know what I'm trying to get at. Simply put, lines doesn't have the strength of an object or a shadow in filling a portion. Lines are however, more useful, to lead the eyes into seeing something...

If I didn't get you wrong, you're saying the 1/3 rule element isn't strong enough in this pic.

I agree and disagree.. The lines don't lead to the subjects, that I agree.. And I agree that if lines are present, they should usually lead the eyes to the subject to add value to the visual.

And then.. Here's where the but comes in..

But!

Ok.. Here's what my eyes see..

Reduce every component of the pic into basic shapes, lines and colour. Including the t-shirt they are wearing. Meaning, their heads are now circles, the t-shirts rectangles and etc etc.

Do you see what I see now?

Which is why I disagree. Because in this simpliest form, the components do fit into the 1/3 rule. Almost perfectly.

(Of course, do let me know if you still can't see it through my eyes)

As for your statement about weight not filling up the frame..

Here's where the energy comes in. Where the lines are stagnant and still on one side of the pic, it is nicely balanced by movement and energy from the other.

Originally Posted by The_Cheat Okay, technical aspects aside, I really couldn't rebutt you anymore. I mean, I'm at a loss of words whenever someone say how good the shot of the Afghan gal is... to me, that shot is just another portrait! Same as this, I guess. Anyway, thanks for disagree with me.

Yes.. My eye-candy could be an eye-sore to you and vice-versa. Which is why we're friends! 'Cos we have agreed to disagree.. muahahahaha!!

Thank you to you too, for encouraging this thought process.. It's way easier to just proclaim, I like it! And have left it as that.. But knowing you.. You won't be convinced unless I make a thorough argument to support my case, and in doing that, you're encouraging me to use this rusty brain more..

[VampTreSS]

Uncle Zaren's goin to wonder wat tis big hoo haa's all bout when he sees tis place..

*BIG GRIN*

[The_Cheat]

Originally Posted by VampTreSS If I didn't get you wrong, you're saying the 1/3 rule element isn't strong enough in this pic. I agree and disagree.. The lines don't lead to the subjects, that I agree.. And I agree that if lines are present, they should usually lead the eyes to the subject to add value to the visual. And then.. Here's where the but comes in.. But! Ok.. Here's what my eyes see..

Man! You're getting rusty... even the "but" also need to make such big hoo-ha!! Your first line "I agree and disagee" is inherently calling out for the "but". It's obvious!

Originally Posted by VampTreSS Reduce every component of the pic into basic shapes, lines and colour. Including the t-shirt they are wearing. Meaning, their heads are now circles, the t-shirts rectangles and etc etc. Do you see what I see now? Which is why I disagree. Because in this simpliest form, the components do fit into the 1/3 rule. Almost perfectly. (Of course, do let me know if you still can't see it through my eyes)

I'm staring very hard at the picture right now... err... no. I still don't see the 1/3. Here's why: see the pavement that the two boys are standing on? Are they 2 nice rectangles than stack together to make one big rectangle of the gray pavement? Now, use that as a gauge to the whole frame. How much space does the rectangle stand of the frame? 1/2 right? So, that means the other half of the frame contain the two yellow lines and the road shoulder. Now, stare very hard where the road shoulder ends... does it occupy another 1/2 of that half? Yes no? If you see it the way I do, then yes, the road shoulder stands about 1/4 of the frame. Now, let's do a little mathematics here... 1 full frame, minus half a frame of the pavement and minus 1/4 frame of the road shoulder leave 1/4 to the yellow lines right? So, err... 1/3?

Okay, this ain't a geometry class, and I definitely don't go around using a ruler to measure up a picture! The fact is, usually even when we're talking about 1/3 of the frame, we don't talk about a rectangular one-third that cuts from left to right (up and down is okay... but our eyes are not that attracted to 1/3 left or right of the frame. Funny how the brain works sometimes!); rather, we talk about a triangular one-third that cuts from the corner, pressing the subject somewhat a little off middle.

Then again, ultimately there's no rules in photography. I mean the last thing that would come to mind when you see a picture that moves you will definitely NOT be the rule of the thirds!!

Originally Posted by VampTreSS As for your statement about weight not filling up the frame.. Here's where the energy comes in. Where the lines are stagnant and still on one side of the pic, it is nicely balanced by movement and energy from the other.

Hmm... that's an interesting way to put it... It might work even better if you wanna pass on that point of view, to have the stationary subject standing on that yellow stagnant section, than standing together. If energy what you're really seeing, then I could tell you, I see chaos...

Originally Posted by VampTreSS Yes.. My eye-candy could be an eye-sore to you and vice-versa. Which is why we're friends! 'Cos we have agreed to disagree.. muahahahaha!! Thank you to you too, for encouraging this thought process.. It's way easier to just proclaim, I like it! And have left it as that.. But knowing you.. You won't be convinced unless I make a thorough argument to support my case, and in doing that, you're encouraging me to use this rusty brain more..

Shall I rebutt for the sake of rebutting here?

[eikin]

call me shallow, i just like the yellow
in this picture

[zaren]

Originally Posted by VampTreSS Heh.. I choose to disagree with Adam.. To me, this is the best of your recent lot, Uncle Zaren.. The elements are all there - 1. Graphically - The lines juxtapose superbly to form a very graphic visual. If you want to talk about it having the 1/3 rule or what have you, that's fine by me.. Just that it's a lot simplier to me - The placement of the linear elements are pleasing to my eyes therefore I like it. 2. Visually - This is the main reason why I think it's superb. The colour composition is perfect. Again, graphically the colours are very well balanced where you have yellow on the left and again on the right. 3. Soul - Adam thinks there is no storyline. To me, that isn't the point here. Some pictures make statements, tell stories and then there are some pictures that tantalizes the sensory system. I don't think any one is better than the other, rather that they be appreciated for their own appeal. Of course the one that manages to not only stimulate your five senses but makes you think as well will be the best picture. But that's not what we're discussing here.. If you want a story though, Adam.. Something to connect you to the point of this picture and make therefore make it relevant for your human experience, this is my interpretation - I see the two yellow lines on the left of the picture as being well defined, neat directional elements and yet to the eyes, they are still rigid as compared to the two boys on the right. Who although are blurred, contain energy, life and therefore contrast sharply against the predictability of the lines. Chaos juxtaposed against order? Then again the boy on the upper right has his arm stretched out as if to caution the other about breaking some invisible rule. So this chaos is not in total abandonment either. Which means after further examination, the picture that had seemed so clumsily assembled reveals itself to be extremely balanced. Reminds you of life.. no? So.. How can I not like this fantastic picture?

Niece Vamp.... thanks so much for your in-depth critique... u deserve a big

to add on to your interpretation.... the two yellow lines on the left collectively represent regulations and restrictions. the two parallel lines never meet, which reinforce the idea of inflexibility. the two boys on the right are at an age where they have some freedom from the regulations and restrictions by their parents or teachers.

Any public debate between Vamp and Adam is always refreshing...

Eikin, yellow was what drew me to the scene in the first place.

[The_Cheat]

Originally Posted by zaren Niece Vamp.... thanks so much for your in-depth critique... u deserve a big to add on to your interpretation.... the two yellow lines on the left collectively represent regulations and restrictions. the two parallel lines never meet, which reinforce the idea of inflexibility. the two boys on the right are at an age where they have some freedom from the regulations and restrictions by their parents or teachers. Any public debate between Vamp and Adam is always refreshing... Eikin, yellow was what drew me to the scene in the first place.

Oi! Don't douse the fire lah! I'm not done with this picture yet. Still waiting for the mistress of the nite to come out with a rebuttal first... think she's getting older and sssssslllloooowwweeerrrr lor!!

[khairi]

...hmm...debate of ideas and thoughts...

to me...it's a straight shot...nothing too hype, nothing too boring...just nice for viewing pleasure, that's it.

is there any story to it? it might...or else, there isnt any...balance pict? with the colours, yes...with the lines, not really.

y? simple...all is straight, but the lines to the crop is not straight thus making it lean towards choas too...to me, the lines and the 2 boys...fights for attention. the blur image is not an issue to me. the amount of space for the whole shot seems a bit tight.

frankly, my eyes focus easily at the centre of the picture rather than on the 2 subjects (2 yellow lines and 2 boys)...so the 1/3 third thing is being placed provacatively...that's y i felt that the crop is a bit tight.

[The_Cheat]

Originally Posted by khairi ...hmm...debate of ideas and thoughts...

And errr.. what are you exactly thinking regarding this debate of ideas and thoughts? Do you think it's positive? Or do you think it shouldn't even exist in here? Very ambiguous statement there, if indeed it's even a statement!!

Originally Posted by khairi to me...it's a straight shot...nothing too hype, nothing too boring...just nice for viewing pleasure, that's it. is there any story to it? it might...or else, there isnt any...balance pict? with the colours, yes...with the lines, not really.

You really lost me there brudder! So do you think there's a story or not? Why make such general statement that it might or there isn't?

And again, what do you mean by "with the colours, yes" and "with the lines, not really"? If you really want to help zaren with the comments, I think you ought to give a more precise explanation. Stop being concise all the time, and compromise on the meaning of your post!

Originally Posted by khairi y? simple...all is straight, but the lines to the crop is not straight thus making it lean towards choas too...to me, the lines and the 2 boys...fights for attention. the blur image is not an issue to me. the amount of space for the whole shot seems a bit tight.

You lost me there... "all straight [...] but [...] not straight"? Err... what's your point?

Mind elaborating on "the amount of space for the whole shot seems a bit tight"? It doesn't relate to any of the points you'd tried to make above!

Originally Posted by khairi frankly, my eyes focus easily at the centre of the picture rather than on the 2 subjects (2 yellow lines and 2 boys)...so the 1/3 third thing is being placed provacatively...that's y i felt that the crop is a bit tight.

Mind explaining where the center of the picture is? Err... I got so tuned with the mistress "vision" of seeing shapes and line, that I don't know where the center is anymore!!

[eikin]

Originally Posted by khairi ...hmm...debate of ideas and thoughts... to me...it's a straight shot...nothing too hype, nothing too boring...just nice for viewing pleasure, that's it. is there any story to it? it might...or else, there isnt any...balance pict? with the colours, yes...with the lines, not really. y? simple...all is straight, but the lines to the crop is not straight thus making it lean towards choas too...to me, the lines and the 2 boys...fights for attention. the blur image is not an issue to me. the amount of space for the whole shot seems a bit tight. frankly, my eyes focus easily at the centre of the picture rather than on the 2 subjects (2 yellow lines and 2 boys)...so the 1/3 third thing is being placed provacatively...that's y i felt that the crop is a bit tight.

hmmm ... interesting point about the crop being too tight ... i did experience what you mentioned when i first saw this, my eyes kind of got 'pushed' to the centre line separating the concrete pavement and the tar road ... and i seldom see such brilliant yellow jumping out of the picture, that's why i still like the yellow colour to me there's not much meaning to talk about in the picture except the colour, then again that's just me, and if this is part of a series about colours in everyday life it'll be great

[khairi]

since it's a square crop...space and how you frame the shot is important

it'll be cool to see all vertical and horizontal lines parallel to the edges of the square frame. And ensure that the centre vertical line, that splits the black left half and the grey right half, is in the centre of the frame. Then, for sure...the contrast of lines and shapes mentioned by Vamp would be more prominent. Thus the 2 boys would create the disturbing scene to the image. Finally, the crop should have more space so that the 2 boys would seem to have freedom to make the difference to the shot. Meaning, the rules of thirds should be applied to the framing/cropping of the shot.

in fact, the shot have "2" of almost everything. got story? right now, not really...

and where is the centre of the shot right now? it's exactly at the bigger oil patch where the right hand of one the boy is. that's where my eyes would rest everytime i look at the pict. which means that the space given to the image is not enuff.

[foxtwo]

some of you guys analyse too much and forget to see simply with the heart.

the yellows the whites the lines the joy

[foxtwo]

Originally Posted by khairi and where is the centre of the shot right now? it's exactly at the bigger oil patch where the right hand of one the boy is. that's where my eyes would rest everytime i look at the pict. which means that the space given to the image is not enuff.

I'm ok with the space. My eye is locked onto the "oil patch" too but peripheral vision handles the rest of the image pretty well. Or rather, the rest of the image handles itself well.

to the photographer.

[zaren]

Originally Posted by foxtwo I'm ok with the space. My eye is locked onto the "oil patch" too but peripheral vision handles the rest of the image pretty well. Or rather, the rest of the image handles itself well. to the photographer.

thanks foxtwo....long time no see! hope you are having a good time down under.