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Thread: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

  1. #1
    Senior Member Dfive's Avatar
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    Default D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    The European Broadcasting Union (EBU) test on the D800:

    http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3335_s02.pdf


    " Conclusion
    - The camera has very limited controls when in video mode, but has reasonable connectivity, allowing full- resolution external monitoring and recording.
    - Sound facilities are sparse, the internal microphone is adequate for note-taking or guide sound, and the microphone connector is a 3.5mm jack offering only un-balanced input.
    ( The test procedures were as described and recommended by the EBU, in Tech 3335 (http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3335.pdf). )
    - Video performance is not really acceptable at 1080p, much less so at 720p. Even though the sensor has 36.8 million photo-sites, it achieves only about 1,355x764, little better than 1,280x720.
    - Noise levels are very low, even with ISO settings up to 6,400.
    - Significant coloured spatial aliasing is always present, and is clearly visible even on the camera’s LCD display (921k pixels, about 1,176x784).
    - In theory, meticulous control of the shooting style can reduce this but is unlikely to eliminate it, by using only motivated pans together with fairly short depth of field, such that detail out of the focused plane is always soft and therefore can never provoke aliasing.
    - Exposure range is, potentially, as high as 12 stops, although this will be limited by the acceptability of the noise levels near black.
    - Colour performance is good, and the camera does not respond to infra-red illumination.
    - Motion portrayal is good, the effects of the rolling shutter are nicely suppressed.

    - This camera cannot be recommended for serious programme-making.


    D4 is on their recommended list.
    Last edited by Dfive; 8th October 2012 at 11:59 AM.
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    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    Think they need to see this video... this is part 1, part 2 and part 3 strongly recommended as well..


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    Default Re: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    for anyone watching the video, guess which clip is shot by the iphone 4s?

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    Default Re: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    Where is the part 2 ?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Dfive's Avatar
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    Default Re: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    Vids so long whats it about with regards to D800 ?
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    Senior Member Dfive's Avatar
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    Default Re: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    See my WTS items.. :) Any sales is by meet up face to face, payment is cash only.

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    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    The video is about a shoot out between many video cameras, with the top cinematographers handling them. Cameras include the top expensive cameras like Red Epic, Alexa, and humble ones like Canon 7D, Panasonic GH2 and the iPhone 4s. You will be amazed at what even a lousy iPhone is capable of, in capable hands.

    The color toned and graded videos are then shown to the same group of people in a blind test, without telling folks which camera shot which clip. And they are asked to pick their top 3. The choices will floor you. And mind you, these people are the top people in the industry too.

    That is why I think the talk about D800 video not being good enough, is crap.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 8th October 2012 at 09:49 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    That is why I think the talk about D800 video not being good enough, is crap.
    You didn't understand what the paper is about.
    Last edited by ageha; 8th October 2012 at 10:15 PM.

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    Default Re: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    Quote Originally Posted by ageha View Post
    You didn't understand what the paper is about.
    Please enlighten me then...

  10. #10

    Default Re: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    broadcast criteria is on a different level.

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    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    Quote Originally Posted by eleveninth View Post
    broadcast criteria is on a different level.
    And yet we are seeing major TV series made with the likes of 7D or 5Dm2.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Dfive's Avatar
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    Default Re: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    Quote Originally Posted by ageha View Post
    You didn't understand what the paper is about.
    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Please enlighten me then...
    This is what the D800 Supplement is talking about:

    " Introduction
    This document describes measurement procedures for assessing the quality of video cameras used in television production.
    These procedures do not supplant existing EBU procedures EBU Tech 3281, EBU Tech 3281 Supplement 1 and EBU Tech 3294 for acceptance testing however, some may be used to supplement acceptance testing as well as establish the best settings for a cameras use in a variety of programme-types.
    The results of these tests greatly simplify the derivation of optimum settings for a camera which involves as much art as it does science, since it defines the ‘look’ that the camera will deliver.
    Although it may not be necessary to perform a full set of tests on a camera if a visual inspection of the picture performance does not reveal anything suspicious - whether unusually good or unusually bad. A full test is normally recommended for confidence and is essential when settings are required to deliver a specific ‘look’ for a programme or programme type.
    It is essential the full test be carried out for the purpose of applying a camera Tier as defined in EBU R 118. A full written report must be published to accompany any tiering decision made about a camera.
    To carry out a full test the following performance parameters will be measured;
     Electro-optic transfer function (gamma curve)
     Noise levels and noise distribution
     Sensitivity
     Exposure range, including the effects of black stretch/press and knee
     Colour rendering
     Infra-red response
     Spatial resolution, detail settings and aliasing
     Lens/optical aberrations
     Temporal/shutter effects

    "
    http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3335.pdf
    See my WTS items.. :) Any sales is by meet up face to face, payment is cash only.

  13. #13

    Default Re: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dfive View Post
    This is what the D800 Supplement is talking about:

    " Introduction
    This document describes measurement procedures for assessing the quality of video cameras used in television production.
    These procedures do not supplant existing EBU procedures EBU Tech 3281, EBU Tech 3281 Supplement 1 and EBU Tech 3294 for acceptance testing however, some may be used to supplement acceptance testing as well as establish the best settings for a cameras use in a variety of programme-types.
    The results of these tests greatly simplify the derivation of optimum settings for a camera which involves as much art as it does science, since it defines the ‘look’ that the camera will deliver.
    Although it may not be necessary to perform a full set of tests on a camera if a visual inspection of the picture performance does not reveal anything suspicious - whether unusually good or unusually bad. A full test is normally recommended for confidence and is essential when settings are required to deliver a specific ‘look’ for a programme or programme type.
    It is essential the full test be carried out for the purpose of applying a camera Tier as defined in EBU R 118. A full written report must be published to accompany any tiering decision made about a camera.
    To carry out a full test the following performance parameters will be measured;
     Electro-optic transfer function (gamma curve)
     Noise levels and noise distribution
     Sensitivity
     Exposure range, including the effects of black stretch/press and knee
     Colour rendering
     Infra-red response
     Spatial resolution, detail settings and aliasing
     Lens/optical aberrations
     Temporal/shutter effects

    "
    http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3335.pdf
    Use as B roll camera for events like wedding and corporate still ok. As for broadcasting Black Magic is a better choice.

  14. #14

    Default Re: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    The Zacuto's extensive test for the selected cameras produce amazing results especially the GH2. Though i can clearly tell which one is the iphone in the first test, the iphone did very well too. I think we're over thinking about the equipment we use. In the video i agree to some of the cinematographers that Composition and light plays an important role in film making.

  15. #15

    Default Re: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgdevilzz View Post
    The Zacuto's extensive test for the selected cameras produce amazing results especially the GH2. Though i can clearly tell which one is the iphone in the first test, the iphone did very well too. I think we're over thinking about the equipment we use. In the video i agree to some of the cinematographers that Composition and light plays an important role in film making.
    Yes, under control environment and right process technique we can get some nice footage. But to pass the iphone clips to the broadcast station is another story. Anyway if it is for breaking headlines news they will gladly use whatever footage.

  16. #16

    Default Re: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    DISCLAIMER: NO INTENTION TO START ANY BRAND WAR

    But I saw this interesting video on D800's video capabilities:



    It's actually a comparison video betwen the 2 cameras, but there's also a section comparing the 2. You can actually see both cameras side by side shooting/videoing the same scene. Forget about the comparison, but I think it gives a good idea on D800's video.
    Last edited by avsquare; 9th October 2012 at 09:21 PM.

  17. #17
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    Quote Originally Posted by jopel View Post
    Yes, under control environment and right process technique we can get some nice footage. But to pass the iphone clips to the broadcast station is another story. Anyway if it is for breaking headlines news they will gladly use whatever footage.
    I think the movie clip shows that the right team is the most important.

    The test environment is created to be extremely challenging, with a 14 stop light difference. And the experts in the room are not strangers to "broadcast quality"...

    And the talk about controlled environment, which broadcast station is not in a controlled environment? and which programme is not done with proper lighting?
    Last edited by daredevil123; 9th October 2012 at 10:16 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    Excellent video, pretty educational too, lots to learn Thanks for sharing

    Quote Originally Posted by avsquare View Post
    DISCLAIMER: NO INTENTION TO START ANY BRAND WAR

    But I saw this interesting video on D800's video capabilities:



    It's actually a comparison video betwen the 2 cameras, but there's also a section comparing the 2. You can actually see both cameras side by side shooting/videoing the same scene. Forget about the comparison, but I think it gives a good idea on D800's video.

  19. #19

    Default Re: D800 for video... see this test "not recommended"

    Quote Originally Posted by Justintime View Post
    Excellent video, pretty educational too, lots to learn Thanks for sharing
    Welcome.. Just happen to see this video the random video suggestions at the side bar, watched it out of curiosity and found it to be decent.

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