View Poll Results: D600 Do You Have Spot/Oil Issue?

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  • No.

    55 40.44%
  • Yes - Within 100 shots

    26 19.12%
  • Yes - Within 200 shots

    6 4.41%
  • Yes - Within 400 shots

    13 9.56%
  • Yes - Not sure when

    36 26.47%
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Thread: D600 Do You Have Spot/Oil Issue?

  1. #581
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: D600 Do You Have Spot/Oil Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by ageha View Post

    No, it isn't the same and I'm sure you know better. E.g Fujifilm acknowledge the X10 issue first and promised to work on a solution. In a second step they offered a solution that fixed the light blobs definitely by swapping the sensor. Nikon didn't do anything comparable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jfxberns View Post
    I agree. The Nikon announcement was weak and waffling. It was less than a clear admission of a problem and took no real ownership of the problem or responsibility for making it right. It was phrased to minimize, not recognize there was a problem.

    It was more like a whiny acknowledgement of a kid caught with hand in the cookie jar, that he might have been stealing a cookie.

    It reeks of weak leadership and indecisiveness. It shows no respect or concerns for their loyal customers who put out a big chunk of hard-earned cash to buy a product from a company they trust and believe in.

    If Nikon came out and said "We admit we have a problem. Hthe fix. We apologize. We will make it right for every person who bought a D600 and we'll try to avoid this in the future." If they responded in that manner, I'd have some respect for them.

    But all we got is "well, ok, maybe there might be tiny bit of dust... no big deal, it's kinda normal, right? We'll take a look at your camera." Whine. Shuffle. Look at floor. Cringe.
    Well, the 5D was released in 2005. The service advisory for a dropping mirror was only made in 2009. Fuji's S2 pro was released in 2002, and the service advisory was only released in 2005. Even for the X10, it took Fuji several months before they acknowledged the problem and promised to look into it.

    D600 was released Nov/Dec 2012, and the service advisory came out in Feb 2013, 3.5 months after release. In my book, I think they did good. Yes dust is an issue, but less than an issue with a mirror that dropped out, or a sensor that died. And Fuji's cost for replacing that sensor cost around SGD 1500 IIRC, and many had to get the camera fixed on their own cost after warranty before that service advisory came out.

    After all every single D600 release is still under warranty (provided you buy through the proper channels). I've shot landscapes with dirty sensors before and yes, I would ask, what's the big deal? It is an issue, but not a terribly serious one. Especially now that Nikon has acknowledged the problem, and apparently has a solution in place. I think people need to relax around here and have a little patience here.

    And to ageha, I say again, it is the same.

    For folks who are risk adverse and/or want everything perfect, maybe it is not a very good idea to be early adopters. Maybe in the future you should wait it out 6 months to a year before getting that new release. Which is what many folks are doing actually, waiting it out.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 2nd March 2013 at 03:42 PM.

  2. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    For folks who are risk adverse and/or want everything perfect, maybe it is not a very good idea to be early adopters. Maybe in the future you should wait it out 6 months to a year before getting that new release. Which is what many folks are doing actually, waiting it out.
    But that puts the blame on the buyer. It's not the buyer's fault.

    My take is that if manufacturers don't want justifuably outraged customers, they should tighten QA and QC and not roll put substantially defective items and bill them as top-of-the-line engineering marvels.

    Defend all you want, it's damaged their brand reputation and that's likely to be reflected in revenue.

    When consumers lose trust that you will provide quality at a fair price, you're f**ked! It's just good business to deliver functional goods and own up to and fix problems when they happen.

    I guess we just have to agree to disagree here.

  3. #583

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    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123

    Well, the 5D was released in 2005. The service advisory for a dropping mirror was only made in 2009. Fuji's S2 pro was released in 2002, and the service advisory was only released in 2005. Even for the X10, it took Fuji several months before they acknowledged the problem and promised to look into it.

    D600 was released Nov/Dec 2012, and the service advisory came out in Feb 2013, 3.5 months after release. In my book, I think they did good. Yes dust is an issue, but less than an issue with a mirror that dropped out, or a sensor that died. And Fuji's cost for replacing that sensor cost around SGD 1500 IIRC, and many had to get the camera fixed on their own cost after warranty before that service advisory came out.

    After all every single D600 release is still under warranty (provided you buy through the proper channels). I've shot landscapes with dirty sensors before and yes, I would ask, what's the big deal? It is an issue, but not a terribly serious one. Especially now that Nikon has acknowledged the problem, and apparently has a solution in place. I think people need to relax around here and have a little patience here.

    And to ageha, I say again, it is the same.

    For folks who are risk adverse and/or want everything perfect, maybe it is not a very good idea to be early adopters. Maybe in the future you should wait it out 6 months to a year before getting that new release. Which is what many folks are doing actually, waiting it out.
    The D600 was on sale already in September and now we have March 2013. Not sure where you got your Nov/Dec date from.

    The 5D is old and Canon managed the 5D3 light leak issue very well, same goes for the 6D issue. Same can be said about Fujifilm as well as demonstrated with the X100 and X10. Sure it's fair to dig out examples from a decade ago but it's kind of pointless if those companies showed they know how to handle those incidents better these days.
    Last edited by ageha; 2nd March 2013 at 11:53 PM.

  4. #584

    Default Re: D600 Do You Have Spot/Oil Issue?



    Will let the photo do all the talking, just to shut the skeptics out there and think that some owners here are making a mountain out of a dirty sensor molehill.

    I cannot believe that a landscape shot with dust/oil/spots can be acceptable. Maybe some of the folks here can .... certainly not so cool for me.

    Btw, this is shot at f22 and the camera has a shutter count of 600 or so when this was taken.

    Here's another in case u choose to turn a blind eye or in self denial .... f22 and yes after a sensor cleaning at NCS , just after another 100 or so shots later.



    Quite disappointing, especially when I myself admittedly am a Nikon Fanboy ....

  5. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamenco View Post
    Quite disappointing, especially when I myself admittedly am a Nikon Fanboy ....
    Exactly. When a company sells you an item, there is an implied warranty that it's fit for the purpose intended. In this case, that's certainly not so.

    A $2500 camera should produce a better image than a $150 point-n-shoot.

  6. #586

    Default Re: D600 Do You Have Spot/Oil Issue?

    My D600 is at NSC for the third time since I got it in Nov last year and shooting about 3500 shots thus far. They informed me that I will be getting a new shutter mechanism this time. Hopefully that will be end of the dust on sensor problem. Will update if that is not the case.

  7. #587

    Default Re: D600 Do You Have Spot/Oil Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by flamenco View Post


    Will let the photo do all the talking, just to shut the skeptics out there and think that some owners here are making a mountain out of a dirty sensor molehill.

    I cannot believe that a landscape shot with dust/oil/spots can be acceptable. Maybe some of the folks here can .... certainly not so cool for me.

    Btw, this is shot at f22 and the camera has a shutter count of 600 or so when this was taken.

    Here's another in case u choose to turn a blind eye or in self denial .... f22 and yes after a sensor cleaning at NCS , just after another 100 or so shots later.



    Quite disappointing, especially when I myself admittedly am a Nikon Fanboy ....
    Thank for sharing... this is not acceptable indeed !

  8. #588

    Default Re: D600 Do You Have Spot/Oil Issue?

    I hope the upcoming D7100 do not have this problem......oh well, I was thinking of switching to Canon or Pentax....

  9. #589

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    Quote Originally Posted by jfxberns

    Exactly. When a company sells you an item, there is an implied warranty that it's fit for the purpose intended. In this case, that's certainly not so.

    A $2500 camera should produce a better image than a $150 point-n-shoot.
    Strangely Nikon's cheaper DSLR bodies have less quality control issues. Though, I'm not convinced this D600 issue has anything to do with quality control. It almost looks like a design issue.

  10. #590
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: D600 Do You Have Spot/Oil Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by jfxberns View Post
    But that puts the blame on the buyer. It's not the buyer's fault.

    My take is that if manufacturers don't want justifuably outraged customers, they should tighten QA and QC and not roll put substantially defective items and bill them as top-of-the-line engineering marvels.

    Defend all you want, it's damaged their brand reputation and that's likely to be reflected in revenue.

    When consumers lose trust that you will provide quality at a fair price, you're f**ked! It's just good business to deliver functional goods and own up to and fix problems when they happen.

    I guess we just have to agree to disagree here.
    BTW, the D600 is still functional, just that there is problem with dust. While it is an issue, Nikon did provide an interim solution, and now a more permanent one. I do not understand which part of the entire issue is Nikon not fixing the problem? NSC provides free cleaning until a more permanent solution is found. And now it seems that more permanent solution is here. What more do you expect?

    And I am not defending. If this happens to Canon, Leica, I will still say the same thing. In the end, you need to give companies turn around time to work on these issues. Solutions don't just pop out of thin air or grow on trees... And it seems the fix is to replace a part. That probably means a part has been re-worked. And that mean design, as well as manufacturing of the new part.

    So golden question is, if you are the man in charge of this at Nikon, what would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by ageha View Post
    The D600 was on sale already in September and now we have March 2013. Not sure where you got your Nov/Dec date from.

    The 5D is old and Canon managed the 5D3 light leak issue very well, same goes for the 6D issue. Same can be said about Fujifilm as well as demonstrated with the X100 and X10. Sure it's fair to dig out examples from a decade ago but it's kind of pointless if those companies showed they know how to handle those incidents better these days.
    ok 5 months. it is still within warranty period.

    Old or not old, it shows companies do need turn around times to evaluate the problem, do the proper testing and find a solution, test that solution and roll it out. I agree it looks more like a design flaw. But design flaws are not uncommon.

    Anyway, sounds like a witch-hunt to me actually. Sounds like you guys should just move on to something else if you feel so much hatred due to this dust saga. Or maybe you guys should just spend more time taking pictures.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 3rd March 2013 at 04:57 AM.

  11. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Or maybe you guys should just spend more time taking pictures.
    If you can't win on logic, then behave in a condescending manner.

    I expect better from the Clubsnap admins. No need to treat members that way. It's just a debate of opinions.

  12. #592

    Default Re: D600 Do You Have Spot/Oil Issue?

    I guess most products will have teething issues for new products eg software, vehicles,etc. Options as consumers are to be an early adopter and have the product to use or wait till issues are resolved. What we would also want is for the company to acknowledge when there are issues and just let us know they are working to resolve it. This gives us assurance and builds brand loyalty. For this case the message from Nikon was lacking.
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  13. #593
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    Default Re: D600 Do You Have Spot/Oil Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by jfxberns View Post
    If you can't win on logic, then behave in a condescending manner.

    I expect better from the Clubsnap admins. No need to treat members that way. It's just a debate of opinions.
    Condescending? well, that is your point of view.

    What I said is very true. Rather than spending so much time effort and emotion on this issue that is quite minor. Why not focus on the craft itself? I do not think I am wrong to say that.

  14. #594
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    Default Re: D600 Do You Have Spot/Oil Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by robertgl View Post
    I guess most products will have teething issues for new products eg software, vehicles,etc. Options as consumers are to be an early adopter and have the product to use or wait till issues are resolved. What we would also want is for the company to acknowledge when there are issues and just let us know they are working to resolve it. This gives us assurance and builds brand loyalty. For this case the message from Nikon was lacking.
    Finally a voice of reason. It was the message that was lacking. Not the actions. Unlike some who demands that a product be perfect when launched, and a fix immediately when problem reported.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 3rd March 2013 at 11:01 AM.

  15. #595

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    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123

    Finally a voice of reason. It was the message that was lacking. Not the actions. Unlike some who demands that a product be perfect when launched, and a fix immediately when problem reported.
    Many Singaporeans are used to encounter less 24 hr implementation . Eg housing loan and few days ago car loan. They want other party to do the same.

  16. #596
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    Default Re: D600 Do You Have Spot/Oil Issue?

    This is partly driven by tight deadlines to launch a new product in the face of fierce competition from other manufacturers.
    Even when the product is not completely ready, they HAVE to launch. No choice.
    Worry about the minor product problems later.

    (Digress: In software this is common. The software companies release version 1 knowingly with bugs. Soon after, they release updates to cure the bugs. Then they release improved versions 2, 3, 4...later on. )

    It is about capturing the user base among consumers. Once you have that, your competitors face an uphill task.
    All Japanese manufacturers have learnt the JVC-Sony VHS-Betamax bitter lesson by heart. It is engraved in their collective consciouness.

    If a manufacturer has a mindset to engineer a product to near-perfection before release, it can. But risk being bypassed by competitors or being obsolete by the time they release the product; because a new technological breakthrough has happened in the mean time.

    Consumers are not to be blamed for expecting a reasonably good product.
    Because the manufacturer does claim that their products are "engineered to perfection".
    On their official website, they proudly advertise it for the whole world to see.

    However, looking at the old Nikon bodies that I have, it is true that their build quality is quite high.

    Last edited by ricohflex; 3rd March 2013 at 05:27 PM.

  17. #597

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    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123
    ok 5 months. it is still within warranty period.
    No, it's not ok to make things up as a moderator. Everybody knows the camera was 2-3 months earlier on sale and you're suggesting only the Nikon forum moderator didn't know that?
    Last edited by ageha; 3rd March 2013 at 12:59 PM.

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    Default Re: D600 Do You Have Spot/Oil Issue?

    Got my D600 last week from Funan. Probably around 100 shots. Already shown dust on a F22 & F32 pics.

    Did a check with my D7000 & D90 as well. Both never did any cleaning at all. D7000 (~2 yrs old) also has some dust on top corner. Interesting D90 (~3+ yrs old) show no dust at all.

    Better go NCS to do a sensor cleaning for all my bodies, and see if they would replace the shutter for my 1-week-old D600...

  19. #599

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    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex
    This is partly driven by tight deadlines to launch a new product in the face of fierce competition from other manufacturers.
    Even when the product is not completely ready, they HAVE to launch. No choice.
    Worry about the minor product problems later.

    (Digress: In software this is common. The software companies release version 1 knowingly with bugs. Soon after, they release updates to cure the bugs. Then they release improved versions 2, 3, 4...later on. )

    It is about capturing the user base among consumers. Once you have that, your competitors face an uphill task.
    All Japanese manufacturers have learnt the JVC-Sony VHS-Betamax bitter lesson by heart. It is engraved in their collective consciouness.

    If a manufacturer has a mindset to engineer a product to near-perfection before release, it can. But risk being bypassed by competitors or being obsolete by the time they release the product; because a new technological breakthrough has happened in the mean time.

    Consumers are not to be blamed for expecting a reasonably good product.
    Because the manufacturer does claim that their products are "engineered to perfection".
    On their official website, they proudly advertise it for the whole world to see.

    However, looking at the old Nikon bodies that I have, it is true that their build quality is quite high.

    [/IMG]
    It doesn't need to be engineered to perfection, not at all. I'm just expecting it not to add any dirt to my photos by itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffyue
    Got my D600 last week from Funan. Probably around 100 shots. Already shown dust on a F22 & F32 pics.

    Did a check with my D7000 & D90 as well. Both never did any cleaning at all. D7000 (~2 yrs old) also has some dust on top corner. Interesting D90 (~3+ yrs old) show no dust at all.

    Better go NCS to do a sensor cleaning for all my bodies, and see if they would replace the shutter for my 1-week-old D600...
    You were just lucky with your former DSLR, usually they all develop dust specs after about 100 shots as long as you don't swap lenses.

    Would have been nice from Nikon to release a list of serial numbers with the bodies with the affected shutter units.
    Last edited by ageha; 3rd March 2013 at 01:28 PM.

  20. #600

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    Quote Originally Posted by robertgl
    ..... For this case the message from Nikon was lacking.
    I agree with u, it would have been better if they had issued a statement earlier and needed some time to fix it. It was during these few months of lack of response from the company tat made (potential) owners lose confidence tat we once had.
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