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Thread: Ethics of an event photographer?

  1. #21
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmike View Post
    It was not for any portfolio. It was just to share in the forum after the event.

    you didn't put all the information together in the first place, we didn't see the whole picture, so whatever answers given to you may not really applicable.

    anyway,
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmike View Post
    That's what I thought too.

    But does the person being photographed have the rights to ask to take the image offline?
    the person appear in the photos does not make this person the rightful owner of the photos.

    please see the law on definition of the ownership of photos.

    this person can request the photographer to display or not to display the photos of him/her, but the photographer have no obligation to comply such request.
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  2. #22

    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?

    Sorry for not being clear on the purpose and situation.

    I understand the rightful owner of the photos are the photographer or whoever have the rights to it. But usually we as photographer will do as per the request of the person being photographed out of respect?

    Just to summarize, it is for a forum's event held in a farm (private property) that is also open to public and most of those attending the event are members of that forum. I was the i/c for the media team and I did told him not to post that particular member's pictures after he took some shots of that member. Pictures taken are for memories sake and to be shared in the forum on the event organized.

    He went ahead to post them up in the forum and claimed he have the rights to the pictures and the moderators there should not remove his post but told the person he photographed that the forum owns the rights to the pictures. After a big hooha with the forum team, he deleted all of his pictures taken during the entire 2 days event from the image hosting site.

    Non of us are professional photographers in the team.
    Last edited by Schmike; 6th September 2012 at 09:46 AM.

  3. #23
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmike View Post
    Sorry for not being clear on the purpose and situation.

    I understand the rightful owner of the photos are the photographer or whoever have the rights to it. But usually we as photographer will do as per the request of the person being photographed out of respect?
    Please read the two sentences highlight in red.
    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    I hope the photographer can understand this;
    "you have to rights to do something does not mean the things you do is always right."



    anyway, why organizers look for free photographers and disallow photographers to use the photos for portfolio purposes?
    if it is a sensitive issue or close door event, then the more should hire photographers with good working ethic.

    save money does not save troubles some time.
    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    you didn't put all the information together in the first place, we didn't see the whole picture, so whatever answers given to you may not really applicable.

    anyway,

    the person appear in the photos does not make this person the rightful owner of the photos.

    please see the law on definition of the ownership of photos.

    this person can request the photographer to display or not to display the photos of him/her, but the photographer have no obligation to comply such request.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  4. #24

    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmike View Post
    Sorry for not being clear on the purpose and situation.

    I understand the rightful owner of the photos are the photographer or whoever have the rights to it. But usually we as photographer will do as per the request of the person being photographed out of respect?
    It depends.

    First lets understand how is it for the involved photographers:

    If you asked people to come and shoot for free to help out, some people may go for the sake of portfolio building reasons. Thereafter you go and tell them they cannot use the photo, it is natural that people will feel cheated of their time. We also have to be aware that for these people willing to do it for free, portfolio is way more important to them than money or promise of more real jobs.

    Then come the professional scenario. If you hire a pro to shoot and pay accordingly to own the images, any pro would oblige to your request. If you paid lower and it is pre-arranged that the pro retain rights to the images for his own usage, then asking the pro to remove those images after the job its like 'shouldn't you pay full price in the first place if you want that?".

    For the 'out of respect' scenarios, I had acceded to such requests and these requests are often very valid; special people, especially children, the less fortunate, handicapped, private events, private events for celebrities/VIP/public people.
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  5. #25

    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?

    Also asking people to shoot and giving 'appreciation gifts' or refreshment drinks or food cannot be construe as payment. Unless in black and white written that the $2 chicken rice or $1 bottled drink is the payment and the photographers acknowledge it.
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  6. #26

    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    Please read the two sentences highlight in red.
    Noted.
    Quote Originally Posted by sjackal View Post
    It depends.

    First lets understand how is it for the involved photographers:

    If you asked people to come and shoot for free to help out, some people may go for the sake of portfolio building reasons. Thereafter you go and tell them they cannot use the photo, it is natural that people will feel cheated of their time. We also have to be aware that for these people willing to do it for free, portfolio is way more important to them than money or promise of more real jobs.

    Then come the professional scenario. If you hire a pro to shoot and pay accordingly to own the images, any pro would oblige to your request. If you paid lower and it is pre-arranged that the pro retain rights to the images for his own usage, then asking the pro to remove those images after the job its like 'shouldn't you pay full price in the first place if you want that?".

    For the 'out of respect' scenarios, I had acceded to such requests and these requests are often very valid; special people, especially children, the less fortunate, handicapped, private events, private events for celebrities/VIP/public people.
    Those shots were only asked to be removed in the forum and shots asked to remove was close ups of a person. Those are not any fantastic shots anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by sjackal View Post
    Also asking people to shoot and giving 'appreciation gifts' or refreshment drinks or food cannot be construe as payment. Unless in black and white written that the $2 chicken rice or $1 bottled drink is the payment and the photographers acknowledge it.
    Refreshments and food was provided to everyone who helped out. So I believe that is not considered as payment to anyone.

  7. #27
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?

    sometime we do see photographers posting very unglam photos in portrait and poses,
    we just let the photographer know what wrong with the photos and usually they can accept it.



    for your case, all you need to do is ask nicely.
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  8. #28

    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?

    We did ask nicely. He was too egoistic.

  9. #29
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmike View Post
    We did ask nicely. He was too egoistic.
    for a price of few photos, you can know a person's character.

    that is consider very worthy.


    not point make a big deal out of this issue, just move on and learn from it.
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  10. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmike
    We did ask nicely. He was too egoistic.
    I don't understand why some ppl are so anal about their faces are shown in photographs.

    If they are so anal, pls stay at home 24/7

    They come to an event that is publicly announced and they know that there will be photography taken for the organizers. If don't like their face to be photographed, then don't attend the event. Stay at home 24/7.

    Damm strange ppl

  11. #31

    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    for a price of few photos, you can know a person's character.

    that is consider very worthy.


    not point make a big deal out of this issue, just move on and learn from it.
    Definitely not going to create a big fuss out of this. Just curious and wanted to be sure of the "rights". At least I will know that it will be better to have some black and white in future to prevent such situations from recurring.

    Quote Originally Posted by donut88 View Post
    I don't understand why some ppl are so anal about their faces are shown in photographs.

    If they are so anal, pls stay at home 24/7

    They come to an event that is publicly announced and they know that there will be photography taken for the organizers. If don't like their face to be photographed, then don't attend the event. Stay at home 24/7.

    Damm strange ppl
    Yes, it's not wrong to say that. Sometimes, it was due to some personal reasons that we should respect.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?

    no paper, no contract. no contract, no obligation.

    of course, being nice will always usually elicit a nice response.

    and in the end, without any paper contracts, the copyright holder would be the one holding the memory cards.
    宁愿遇见丢失幼崽的母熊,也不愿碰上做蠢事的愚人

  13. #33
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?

    a few points to note

    the photographer owns the rights to the images

    unless it was agreed beforehand with a contract, the photographer still owns the rights (even if he/she was paid for it)

    there is no privacy law in Singapore

    members of the public cannot demand that you delete or not display their likeness

    but at the same time you the photographer cannot use their image to link them to stuff (eg. i shoot a XMM and then use it to promote a product)

    if you want to make sure f your rights, get it down in black and white.

    people under the age of 21 or 18 cannot sign a contract (they will not be held liable if they break it)

  14. #34

    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?

    Also to note, because it is a public event, even if you hire the pros and control how the images are used, you also cannot control how others (meaning any other passerby, participants, onlookers, etc) taking photos and posting them around.

    If you really have such needs to restrict all these, then the event should be held in a private place, with security screening and prohibiting film and recording equipment, handphones, hired shooters will be paid to hand over copyright plus paid for NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement). Eg Theatre Plays,

    Fact of the matter is, you can't control and because you are taking in anyone volunteering, you won't know who is egotistic or hard to work with when faced with such situations or requests.
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  15. #35

    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?

    In a public event, anyone can take photo with iphone and upload to the net instantly.
    It is difficult to control. If you don't want your picture to be taken. Cover your face.
    I eats, shoots & leaves

  16. #36
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yutaka Go View Post
    In a public event, anyone can take photo with iphone and upload to the net instantly.
    It is difficult to control. If you don't want your picture to be taken. Cover your face.
    thank you for the idea,

    I will do this for my next stock photo shoot...

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  17. #37

    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yutaka Go View Post
    In a public event, anyone can take photo with iphone and upload to the net instantly.
    It is difficult to control. If you don't want your picture to be taken. Cover your face.
    that's why i always shield my face when camera point my way. or wear different glasses everyday
    宁愿遇见丢失幼崽的母熊,也不愿碰上做蠢事的愚人

  18. #38
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?



    the best solution

  19. #39

    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?

    Seems like I should prepare some of those for the same event next year.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Ethics of an event photographer?

    "The event was held in a non-public place but is opened to the public"
    By right there is no violation of any Privacy laws, since it is opened to the public. Hence, organiser has no right to stop the sharing of the photos.

    Ownership shall be the photographer. Photos can be licensed to organiser for their use by means of a payment or otherwise. In this case no monetary payment involved.

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