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Thread: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf
    The optical properties of "normal" filters are symmetric with respect to rotation around the optical axis. Polarizers are not (this is their purpose), so the orientation matters a lot.
    thx for the reply but i'm still a bit lost...mabi i re-phrase my question a bit, how we know that we have achieve the correct polarization? say for example, is it when we see the sky darken in color or brighten in color when we rotate the rim of the filter and viewing it thru the view finder??
    Last edited by chilli padi; 18th October 2005 at 05:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by chilli padi
    thx for the reply but i'm still a bit lost...mabi i re-phrase my question a bit, how we know that we have achieve the correct polarization? say for example, is it when we see the sky darken in color or brighten in color when we rotate the rim of the filter and viewing it thru the view finder??
    Yes, when you rotate the ring and view thru the viewfinder, you will notice the effect take place, eg. normal.....dark...darker....darkest....darker....d ark...normal again, or now you see it.... now you don't.

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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    Yes, when you rotate the ring and view thru the viewfinder, you will notice the effect take place, eg. normal.....dark...darker....darkest....darker....d ark...normal again, or now you see it.... now you don't.
    So it's when we see the sky darken in color thru the view finder then we know have achieve the correct polarization... thx~!

    btw, this doesn't apply to UV fliters right? UV is jus for protection of the lens right?

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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    im considering get a Polarizer for my d70s with kit lens.
    Because i find that the blues of the sky is very dull and i heard that polarizer can help i getting blues into my photos

    So is it true that the only choice is the circular polarizer?

  5. #65
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by chilli padi
    Sorry, but just to clarify here the sentence in red, we got to turn the outer rim of the polariser till we can see the sky darken in color in the view finder? sorry about asking this kind of question but I seldom use any filter before.

    Gee...I thought this topic is over a long time back when I was more "active" with it heheh.

    Okay..I have been reading some of the later replies and comments given here since I last visited it. Here's my reply to a question raised.

    Regarding what I said: ( I try to be more "layman" to make it easier to explain or at least try to explain how things works heheh ) Okay I will try to be as "basic" to explain how it works.

    ALL POLARISERS...and I DO MEAN ALL...linear or circular COMES with a rotating ring built-in!. Contrary to what some people here might claim that you only need to rotating linear polariser and that circular polarisers are "plug and play" they most likely have never bought one, don't know how to use it but have to say something here for whatever motive, add to the confusion or to increase their message score to indicate how much messages they have wrote since joining clubsnap.org. Sorry...reading some of the stuff here since my last "drop in" I am very ticked off by some of the claims made here...some from famed "claimed" artistic engineering professional person ....blah blah blah. I alway am selective with what I will contribute if I do have something worth adding if not...better to just stand back and read and keep my fingers off the keyboard.

    You have to know this for a FACT...you HAVE to rotate the rim of the polariser to adjust the level of effect....if any effect actually takes place. Yes you heard me correctly..."if it takes place" That is because the polariser only works on light coming into your lens from a certain angle(s), intensity and even the kind of illumination and surface the light come from. Remember without light, you see nothing just like when you swtich off your room light at night. And no..light does not all come to your eyes or your lens directly from just one angle. In fact light comes to you from all directions. Omni-directional.

    I did uploaded a picture to explain how polariser work with a LCD screen sometime back which I guess was not well taken by some engineer here who thought I was beng too simplistic. Personally I thought it was a good way to show directional light and a notebook LCD screen really does use directional illumination. So I was just thinking how to give another example as to how it can basically explain the working of the polariser without getting too professionally or technical. So here I go again lah...one last time. ( just hope no one pop in here months from now and ask this again without doing a search for an explanation)

    Think of your polarising theory as a big window panel you are standing infront. Instead of glass, imagine it being a window with horizontal slabs of wood panels arranged at an angle in an over lapping format...like those found in old houses and schools. ( they did that to keep out the rain when you close the window but still let air into the house or room) Look straight at it you can't see through it as the over lapping wood panel is blocking your view. Same thing when you shine a torchlight at it at 90 degree angle perpendicular to the window. (refer to my drawing) The light will not shine through the window. But if you squat down, holding the torchlight low at the level of your feet and at an angle, shine upwards at the window now, you will see light does pass through it as the gap between the wooden panels are now visible due to the angular nature of the over lapping wood panel. Refer to the simple drawing I have made here. When you shine from a hight point down ward at the window you also get blocked.



    Now back to the polariser which is not wood but is a glass media thus it let all light in except when it comes from certain angle toward the lens. It is just to illustrate a point about filtering. heheh hope I am not confusing the newbies. How did those smart people invent such a thing without any overlapping non-transparent material like wood? I DON'T KNOW how to explain it. Try to search the web on how to manufacture it and I am sure you will know how they do it. For me as a photographer, I only know..it works!... And how it works in a limited way too.

    In the case of the polariser..what that means is, it allows all lights to come thru the lens. BUT, it will limit certain light coming toward the lens from certain angles. So in a way, it is doing what a wooden overlapping panel window does in "reverse". It controls how lights gets into your camera and register on your CCD, CMOS or film.

    By ROTATING the filter, you are in fact "selecting" specifc light sources hitting the lens from getting into your len. The limitation I am speaking of is, there is no way you can block off or effect ALL lights. This only can happen if all the lights comes from the same angle which in real life that is impossible. Okay...imagine you are looking at a scene infront of you. Be it trees, plants, buildings..etc. They all have surfaces? Som e very reflective, some dull, dark surfaces, light surfaces...etc. Imagine the sun behind your back illuminating the scene in front of you. Now, not all the light reflected off all the plants, building..etc will be bouncing off their surfaces and hitting you at the same angle although that is what your eyes will "see". Some come from your left, some from your right, some from higher up angle and some from the ground(glass marble flooring)..etc. It is like you use a mirror and you try to aim and reflect the light off the sun into your friend's eyes at a distance. Now, the polariser will allow you to "adjust" it's angle of "blockage". To adjust it, THAT IS WHY it has a rim and you need to rotate the rim to adjust. One full rotation of 360 degree means you are back to SQUARE ONE! Keep rotating it (more then 360 degree and beyond a few times) does not mean it gets more intense!! It just gets up to the maximum point and then it goes back down to normal again heheh.. You only have 360 degree of adjustment available to you ..that's it.

    And if within that rotation you see no difference..then it just means the polariser is not able to block of the light or enhance a scene because that "specific" glare or reflection you are trying to eliminate is not align to the polariser's own effective angle to block it. So you need to move from where you are shooting to another position if possible. That is what I mean by the polariser is not always usable in all situation. IT IS NOT A MIRACLE FILTER.

    And for those who thinks..it is plug and play. I really would love to know where you learn that piece of garbage. You can not just plug it in and it works!..Unless you are ass lucky being that the moment you put it on, the rim was rotated at the right position when you look into your viewfinder and click your shot. But then again..how the hell you know if that is so without rotating it to see the effect. Just becasue you see a deep blue sky while using it on your lens does not mean it was due to the polariser. As you rotate the filter while looking into your viewfinder, you will notice either alot of change in colour saturation or it can be very tiny changes to scenes with stray lights, tiny or large glare spots, reflection from glass surfaces or sky in your picture scene.

    Also, the polariser DOES NOT ALWAYS make all SKY BLUE OR DARK BLUE!!!. It helps only when you are (aiming at the right portion of the sky along with the scene you are shooting, condition of the climate and time of day..etc. Usually aiming at a blue sky with the SUN behind you or just off the camera's view will give the best blue. Try to use a polariser with the sun in the frame of your shot and see if you still get a blue or deep blue sky or NOT!!!!..You get WASH WHITE instead!!!. heh Also..if you have a bloody gloomy day to shoot as part of your scene shot or a big dark cloudy sky...don''t expect the polariser to get you that blue sky just by "plugging and playing" it to your lens!!! hehehehe.

    The polariser is a speciality filter but like all other filters...it has it limits and use too. It is not something you can use in all situation and think it will give you all the best colours, deep saturated sky or colours..etc.

    You need to play with it alot to know how best to use it. It is very hard to explain it all and how to rotate till you get the best effect. It's trial and error. For example if I am shooting a doorway which has two doors on either side...both are glass doors. I open them outwards and frame my shot. They both will have reflections on both doors as they are glass and smooth and will reflect lights. So I mount my polariser and re-frame the shot. I will start by rotating the rim slowly one full rotation and observe the scene changes from my viewfinder to see the changes to lighting, glares and reflection etc. I will know, most likely, I can not block off all the reflective lights and glares as they come from all angles. So I will rotate the rim of the polariser to give me the best effect or what I am happy to accept before I shoot. Like in my two glass doors example maybe I will be able to cut the reflection from just the left door but the right door will still have it's glare and reflection give the light is from an opposing angle to the left door. Of course maybe if I rotate the rim further, the oppsite will happen to the right glass door. Thus, the polariser does not make any decision for YOU. You will STILL have to make that creative choice yourself. It is a tool and not a solution solver that's plug and play.


    continure next message...seem I have reach a limit heheh...sorry I am abit long winded ..that's my problem heh
    Last edited by sammy888; 19th October 2005 at 09:51 AM.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    I am still not too happy with how to explain it heheh It is hard without any hands on lesson but I hope at the very least I have managed to give you a bit more details to help you refine your search to get to the bottom of this polarising filter. I love the polariser and have played with it for many years but I also know, it is not something I will use for all my shoot to get a bluer sky or to enhance a colour...etc. It is just not possible...does not matter if you buy the best one in the world like a B+W or Nikon or whatever...etc. Even the best one will have limitation as to how well it can help you make your picture better. Or make a bad picture better.

    Get circular polarizer...it is common now a days simply because, it was created to work with all the modern AUTO FOCUSING LENS AND CAMERA BODIES. Linear was use in those older lens way back then. Using a linear polariser on a modern AF camera can play havok on your focusing as due to the way it filter light..it screws up the AF sensore device and can result in blur shots.

    AS FAR AS I AM AWARE....what the hell is a right handed or left handed polariser for cameras.???!!!!! You fix it to your lens and rotate. Does not matter if you rotate left or right or have to use your right hand or left to adjust it to make it bloody work!! You just keep rotating till you find it has made the right effect on framed scene for you to take your shot! You go to a camera shop and ask for a left or right handed polariser..I am wondering if the sale man will be on the floor dying with laughter! heheh.
    Last edited by sammy888; 19th October 2005 at 03:32 AM.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    Gee...I thought this topic is over a long time back when I was more "active" with it heheh.

    Okay..I have been reading some of the later replies and comments given here since I last visited it. Here's my reply to a question raised.

    Regarding what I said: ( I try to be more "layman" to make it easier to explain or at least try to explain how things works heheh ) Okay I will try to be as "basic" to explain how it works.

    ALL POLARISERS...and I DO MEAN ALL...linear or circular COMES with a rotating ring built-in!. Contrary to what some people here might claim that you only need to rotating linear polariser and that circular polarisers are "plug and play" they most likely have never bought one, don't know how to use it but have to say something here for whatever motive, add to the confusion or to increase their message score to indicate how much messages they have wrote since joining clubsnap.org. ........................................
    ...............................................

    continure next message...seem I have reach a limit heheh...sorry I am abit long winded ..that's my problem heh
    Not some people lah, so far I only hear one person says that, maybe the only one in this world, maybe in his solar system all circular polarisers are all "plug and play", that we don't know, so we should give the benefits of doubt as we all never been to other world before.

    Anyway, if you use this kind of circular polarisers filter and you can't rotate it, why don't you rotate the camera? And if you can't rotate the camera, why don't you rotate the world around you?

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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    just hope no one pop in here months from now and ask this again without doing a search for an explanation
    i did read that thread but the i can't see the pics with which you are explaining. the pics all appear a question mark to me. anyway, thx for the layman explaination. I got what you are trying to explain. thx~!

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    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    Not some people lah, so far I only hear one person says that, maybe the only one in this world, maybe in his solar system all circular polarisers are all "plug and play", that we don't know, so we should give the benefits of doubt as we all never been to other world before.

    Anyway, if you use this kind of circular polarisers filter and you can't rotate it, why don't you rotate the camera? And if you can't rotate the camera, why don't you rotate the world around you?

    hahah....yes...that "some people" is just my indirect way of stating the obvious heheh...

    Rotate the camera? that is a good one! heheheheheheheheheh....

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by chilli padi
    i did read that thread but the i can't see the pics with which you are explaining. the pics all appear a question mark to me. anyway, thx for the layman explaination. I got what you are trying to explain. thx~!

    opps..I took it out hehehehe.... I thot this thread was finish and the one I was eplaining it to was finish with it and I did not want to waste the bandwidth.

    Well glad you understand what I was trying to say about it lah..

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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    hahah....yes...that "some people" is just my indirect way of stating the obvious heheh...

    Rotate the camera? that is a good one! heheheheheheheheheh....
    ppl professional one hor...
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake
    ppl professional one hor...
    I also professional leh, but no cert one hor.

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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    I also professional leh, but no cert one hor.
    ppl tried to offer fotography course in the past ok!
    teach u how to rotate ur camera to suit the polariser!
    teach u how to take fotos with 'X-Factor'!

    go go go!! P'n'P! PLUG AND PLAY!!!!

    gif that man a beer!
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    I also can, I take XXX photos, two more X then him.

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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    I also can, I take XXX photos, two more X then him.
    hahaha!
    tat means u more 'pro' than him.

    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

  16. #76
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake
    ppl tried to offer fotography course in the past ok!
    teach u how to rotate ur camera to suit the polariser!
    teach u how to take fotos with 'X-Factor'!

    go go go!! P'n'P! PLUG AND PLAY!!!!

    gif that man a beer!
    hahahah...that reminds me of a joke. How many morons does it take to screw in a light bulb?







    Answer; It takes at least 3. One to hold the bulb up to the light socket while two of his moron friend are holding him up to reach the ceiling and they both rotate him..thus screwing in the light bulb to the ceiling socket.

  17. #77
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    Let the world rotate around you is better, so you don't even have to move a little finger.

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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake
    ppl tried to offer fotography course in the past ok!
    teach u how to rotate ur camera to suit the polariser!
    teach u how to take fotos with 'X-Factor'!

    go go go!! P'n'P! PLUG AND PLAY!!!!

    gif that man a beer!
    Be nice. Everyone makes mistakes or says stupid things once in a while. The person you're referring to has certainly long realized where he erred, and it would be less awkward (not only for him) if we were a bit more gracious and let it rest at that.

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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by chilli padi
    thx for the reply but i'm still a bit lost...mabi i re-phrase my question a bit, how we know that we have achieve the correct polarization?
    You know you have the "correct" polarization when you like the effect.

    say for example, is it when we see the sky darken in color or brighten in color when we rotate the rim of the filter and viewing it thru the view finder??
    This depends entirely on whether you prefer your picture to have a dark or a bright sky. In matters of taste, there is no such thing as "correct".

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    Default Re: Help On Circular & Linear Polarizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf
    Be nice. Everyone makes mistakes or says stupid things once in a while. The person you're referring to has certainly long realized where he erred, and it would be less awkward (not only for him) if we were a bit more gracious and let it rest at that.
    once in a while?
    nice one there.

    isn't he supposed to have quit CS long ago?
    ah?

    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

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