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Thread: first assignment need some advice due to lighting condition - poolside evening

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    Member slim86's Avatar
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    Default first assignment need some advice due to lighting condition - poolside evening

    Hi all!

    Thanks for opening my thread. I was asked by my friend to shoot for his ROM.
    This will be my first assignment and in return he will give me a token sum (which i never asked for it first place).

    I understand that the ROM will be held at poolside (chevron) in the evening and am not sure about the lighting condition.
    Perhaps some of u have ever shot there could gv me some description / advise.

    I am just afraid the the situation will be dark enough and flashes will only brigthen up the object (people) with a very dark backgroud (due to poor lighting and max iso (800-1600) shot for low noise)

    As for now i only have 1 DSLR crop body, so i may source out another one for a backup purpose. As for lenses, I am wondering if 50mm prime on crop is long enuf for the poolside coz im afraid i cant use my slow 70-200 f4 well without proper lighting.

    These all for now, and if i got chance, will visit the poolside before the event.

    Thanks for reading and comments
    My best friend Canon 60D, 17-40L, 70-200 f/4L

  2. #2

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    If u are using a crop body and my guess is that u are using a canon. Get a wide angle lens like the 16-35 2.8. 50mm on crop body is only recommended as your 2nd camera and not main camera

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    Default Re: first assignment need some advice due to lighting condition - poolside evening

    Don't even think about shooting as main photog if u have to come and ask abt lighting.

    It's people ROM.

    Regards,

    Hart

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    Member slim86's Avatar
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    Default Re: first assignment need some advice due to lighting condition - poolside evening

    Have told my friend before hand that i am real novice just basic photos and he said doesnt mind. Also highlighted i would prefer to help out as second photog. Sigh.. I expect pro reply this way but what should i do? I have also read too many thread before im trying to get into this buz not as if i am not aware at all.
    My best friend Canon 60D, 17-40L, 70-200 f/4L

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    Member slim86's Avatar
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    Default

    Have told my friend before hand that i am real novice just basic photos and he said doesnt mind. Also highlighted i would prefer to help out as second photog. Sigh.. I expect pro reply this way but what should i do? I have also read too many thread before im trying to get into this buz not as if i am not aware at all.
    My best friend Canon 60D, 17-40L, 70-200 f/4L

  7. #7

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    I've shoot ROM there before. there's a lot of lighting there during evening time. But beware of ur posItion and angle as the background seems to hav lots of distractions. Also at some angle, the background tend to camouflage the subject.
    Last edited by theandycreation; 22nd August 2012 at 08:39 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: first assignment need some advice due to lighting condition - poolside evening

    If your friend is aware of the dangers and implications then by all means help him out. but on your end plan everything on the safe side( As in shoot safely. Dun try any gungho or gangnam style). Brightening up the subject is more important then trying to brighten up the background altogether and in the end you may get nothing.

  9. #9
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: first assignment need some advice due to lighting condition - poolside evening

    The photo biz is for discussion on BUSINESS aspect of photography business.

    thread moved.




    btw, for outdoor you have noting to bounce, the best you can do is get a large bounce card, if you are not using a powerful hotshoe flash and without battery pack, it is better just shoot direct flash. else you will risk yourself for missing the shots due to slow recycling rate.
    forget about softening the light, it is better to have usable shots than no shot. don't be hero.


    and remember to keep it simply, since your friend volunteer to be your experiment, so be happy and enjoy, remember to ask him sign an immunity agreement if you can.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  10. #10

    Default Re: first assignment need some advice due to lighting condition - poolside evening

    Note that you are facing this problems:

    1) Zero ROM/wedding experience

    Do you know the sequence and each significant moment to record?

    Do you know the pace and speed? No redos. Everything happens fast in 15 mins most newbie tunnel vision from the stress and excitment and don't even know what happened or what was said often ending up machine gunning wildly without clear intent. It's like first time in a boxing match, first time giving a public speech, etc. An experienced wedding photogr feels the air in the nostrils and everything is in control.

    Do you know what type of shots you must get/want to get and most importantly how to get?

    2) Possible lack of photographic competency in unfamiliar condition.

    Pool side probably mean outdoors. Bounce flash no ceiling how to bounce.

    Night time means its easy for flash to overpower the ambient.

    Dark background means your camera metering will be easily fooled and inconsistent you probably need to assert a lot of manual control and overrides but ceremony moments happening split seconds fast and it's your first rom.

    You can go higher iso but it also means possible color pollution from ambient wb inconsistent with flash, and ugly shadows from ambient overhead light sources.

    There is no perfect situation, you arrive, assess the situation, know the limitations and find the compromise that work best. I had shot night time poolside outdoors, on a yacht, rooftops, helipads, all similar situation with no ceiling no walls to bounce off and everytime it's different exposure decisions depending on situation.

    3) Under equipped

    Where is your wide angles? It's a ceremony not all portraits. And there's commonly group shots to do right after ceremony.

    How do you switch from wide scene to close-ins in split second speed?

    Space, if you can always stand 10 metres away from the subject, like in western weddings, by all means use the tele or mormal lens, but local weddings i am almost always right up till my thighs touching the ceremony table

    Fast lens can be fast yes, but large aperture may not give you enough depth for important story telling scenes at all times.

    Second backup body, you need it. I have a second body, lens and flash just few feet away on standby to grab and continue in case one goes down.

    Not trying to scare you but I have experienced in mid shoot 1) stuck mirror locking up the cam and can just black out, 2) lens acting up and stop autofocusing due to poor connection, ie accidental knocks on the job, 3) flash overheating and shutting down-sb900.

    4) Contingency

    What if that day you sick? Someone stole your camera? Raining outdoors switch to indoors with total different terrain and requirement? Or actually 3 more photogr friends show up as your 'backup' but really just make your work more difficult?

    Lost photos/bad photos/bad result in general, still friend? Or exposed like Caleb Cheong ganna from his couple?

    If BG ok with you, but how they answer to their own parents? How you answer to your own conscious ? Will you ever pick up a camera again?

    Many things are actually at stake thus wedding pros charge their worth to meet the job requirement plus creatively more.

    Hope this help with your preparation/decision.
    Last edited by sjackal; 22nd August 2012 at 09:08 PM.
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    Member JohnJon82's Avatar
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    Default Re: first assignment need some advice due to lighting condition - poolside evening

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    The photo biz is for discussion on BUSINESS aspect of photography business.

    thread moved.




    btw, for outdoor you have noting to bounce, the best you can do is get a large bounce card, if you are not using a powerful hotshoe flash and without battery pack, it is better just shoot direct flash. else you will risk yourself for missing the shots due to slow recycling rate.
    forget about softening the light, it is better to have usable shots than no shot. don't be hero.


    and remember to keep it simply, since your friend volunteer to be your experiment, so be happy and enjoy, remember to ask him sign an immunity agreement if you can.
    Got Got! Cloudy day can bounce by the cloud, clear day bounce by the moon.
    Canon EOS 600D | 17-40 L | 24-105 L | 100 L | 50mm 1.8II | BG-E8

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    Senior Member dennisc's Avatar
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    Default Re: first assignment need some advice due to lighting condition - poolside evening

    ask your friend to hire a main photog, while you can be his 2nd, takes off the stress

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    Default Re: first assignment need some advice due to lighting condition - poolside evening

    Quote Originally Posted by dennisc View Post
    ask your friend to hire a main photog, while you can be his 2nd, takes off the stress
    Agree with you,bro.

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    Default Re: first assignment need some advice due to lighting condition - poolside evening

    If the photo that you shoot does not comes in good. At least a main will cover eveything for him and he got no worries about his big day.If not he'll curse and sweat inside his heart.You better suggest to him to hire a main photographer cos Once in a lifetime.
    Last edited by joe; 22nd August 2012 at 09:32 PM.

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    I don't understand. U can always reject. U sound like ur making it look like ur forced or compelled. I've been asked to shoot products, but i rejected despite them telling me they don't need pro equipment which I said I don't have. I told them I don't have the confidence and know-how. And that was only a product shoot, u can alw reshoot a product shoot, u can't remarry if the shots are screwed.

  16. #16
    Member slim86's Avatar
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    Default Re: first assignment need some advice due to lighting condition - poolside evening

    Thanks to all bro advises here. Not to worry, I am not going to step into this business at all and spoil real pro image. I have tripled confirmed my fri just now that he is ok with me and seen my works before (non paid brother in law wedding like guest) and he said ok too. I insisted him to get a real pro photog. He said not to worry at all. So now i will just volunteer myself an try my best. Just that i am not sure how to handle lighting in outdoor evening coz i ever shoot a farewell party of my friend on a condo pool side and its not easy. Evening time pool will be just plain dark if no ambient light and the results. That time i also used direct flash, no bounce card. Bounce will create uneven light ambience. I am thinking of setting up an artificial light ambience by using a flash triggered off shoe on a lightstand with those type of gary fong sphere. But dunno if it will work well coz i dont have it and nv try it.
    Anyway thanks all for caring.

    Btw i come to this forum to seek advise not to keep discussing the same thread that has been discussed thousands overtime in clubsnap on how amateurs spoiling their clients moment in life. I am aware of it and i am just helping out. Lets change the topic, its not and assignment its just helping out. I have no intention to do photo business and alrdy confirmed with my fri he want me to shoot his ROM. If you ask me how to reject i have done it politely first hand when he asked me by saying i am just novice and you should look for real pro.
    Lets not keep discussing the same topic or i just quit this forum and you all will be fine
    Last edited by slim86; 22nd August 2012 at 10:09 PM.
    My best friend Canon 60D, 17-40L, 70-200 f/4L

  17. #17

    Default Re: first assignment need some advice due to lighting condition - poolside evening

    Quote Originally Posted by slim86 View Post
    Thanks to all bro advises here. Not to worry, I am not going to step into this business at all and spoil real pro image. I have tripled confirmed my fri just now that he is ok with me and seen my works before (non paid brother in law wedding like guest) and he said ok too. I insisted him to get a real pro photog. He said not to worry at all. So now i will just volunteer myself an try my best. Just that i am sure how to handle lighting in outdoor evening coz i ever shoot a farewell party of my friend on a condo pool side and its not easy. Evening time pool will be just plain dark if no ambient light and the results. That time i also used direct flash, no bounce card. Bounce will create uneven light ambience. I am thinking of setting up an artificial light ambience by using a flash triggered off shoe on a lightstand with those type of gary fong sphere. But dunno if it will work well coz i dont have it and nv try it.
    Anyway thanks all for caring.
    No, I dont think you have the competency for the bare basics yet, and trying to add off camera flash is going to even complicate things for you when more variables comes into the picture to juggle.

    Just keep it simple, get safe, sharp and correctly exposed photos with good, logical composition.

    Properly exposed subjects with dark backgrounds, is way better than inconsistent exposures, blurs, weird colors, unflattering angles and dirty skin tones.
    WTB Manfrotto RC4 L Bracket

  18. #18

    Default Re: first assignment need some advice due to lighting condition - poolside evening

    Quote Originally Posted by sjackal View Post
    No, I dont think you have the competency for the bare basics yet, and trying to add off camera flash is going to even complicate things for you when more variables comes into the picture to juggle.

    Just keep it simple, get safe, sharp and correctly exposed photos with good, logical composition.

    Properly exposed subjects with dark backgrounds, is way better than inconsistent exposures, blurs, weird colors, unflattering angles and dirty skin tones.
    Agree with sjackal

  19. #19
    Member slim86's Avatar
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    Default Re: first assignment need some advice due to lighting condition - poolside evening

    Quote Originally Posted by theandycreation View Post
    I've shoot ROM there before. there's a lot of lighting there during evening time. But beware of ur posItion and angle as the background seems to hav lots of distractions. Also at some angle, the background tend to camouflage the subject.
    Thanks a lot for this valuable information.
    My best friend Canon 60D, 17-40L, 70-200 f/4L

  20. #20
    Member slim86's Avatar
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    Default Re: first assignment need some advice due to lighting condition - poolside evening

    Quote Originally Posted by dennisc View Post
    ask your friend to hire a main photog, while you can be his 2nd, takes off the stress
    Thanks for the advise. alrdy insisted him and he again assured me, he is fine and seen my works before. and he told me his proposal was shot by his cousin too, not a pro. I want to reject but at the same time he is trying to convince me he is fine. i will just do my best thanks.
    My best friend Canon 60D, 17-40L, 70-200 f/4L

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