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Thread: Military Discussion : Should AMX 13-SM1 be replace ?

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyflash
    They took it out in built-up area. I recalled some video (in PhoenixTV) about PLO explaining how they build the explosive device to destroy the tank.

    They built a 2-stage explosive device. It looked like a LGB (ie. a small head with a big body). The big body carried a big explosive charge to propell the smaller shaped explosive into the tank. The device is activated when the tank came cross to it (under 10m?).

    Of cause, their successful attempt shocked the Israelis.

    In the 2nd Gulf War, there were limited sucesses of destruction of MBT in close range (like a M1 being blowed up near Baghad -- and the blast area is more than 10m in diameter).

    PS: Information recalled from news clips / documentaries.
    See learning form these experince I serious doubt we will see any big MBT for Singapore which are mainly build up area. There too many way to ambush a MBT in these area.

  2. #142
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    MBT is more for conventional warfare.
    To defeat an opponet quick and fast, armour division must move fast and smash the enemy quickly and conquer their terrorities.

    For the low intensity warfare against insurgent, it is best left for occupation troops to do the difficult job.

    But in a real total war, there is no place for insurgent to sabotage occupation troops.
    During the Sino-Japanese War (1937-1945), to support the KMT troops to battle against the advancing Japanese armies, Mao Ze Dong launch an 40,000 communists guerrilla attack on Japanese checkpoint, railways, and bases in occupy China.

    In retaliation, Japanese launch mop up operation in every villages, towns at the occupy land on suspect communist activities.
    Not much of interrogation and intelligence require, the Japs just wipe out the whole areas.
    It was known that the communists lost 40 out of 45 base and never ever use restore to confront the Japs in large scale again.
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  3. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by singscott
    See learning form these experince I serious doubt we will see any big MBT for Singapore which are mainly build up area. There too many way to ambush a MBT in these area.
    I aint too sure. We are over-built up. And launching insurgent operations from HDB flat will be costly -- since the occupation force could destroy another flat citing that it is a valid military target. It is too difficult to hide the weapons in flats.

    Even in those incidents, it was of limited success.

  4. #144
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    May be I should be more detail. Ambush can also come in many form. Light 4x4 vehicles with milan anti tank missile should be effective. There a lot of corners and building to hide these crews of anti tank weapon.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by singscott
    May be I should be more detail. Ambush can also come in many form. Light 4x4 vehicles with milan anti tank missile should be effective. There a lot of corners and building to hide these crews of anti tank weapon.
    Totally agreed with u, that's what I'm trying to say in my previous post.
    When a MBT goes into a build up area, it's jus like a sniper in a room. He can't fully make use of his advantage - RANGE. No way can he out gun even a pistol.
    Yes, MBT is important in any battle, but there's always a weak point in everything.
    WWII is totally a different story, the technology now is way way ahead of those in the 1940s. Back then, Tanks were Kings, no one can touch them. In modern time, nothing is untouchable. I dun wan to go into detail, cos it will be a very long post. No one will like to read long posts.

  6. #146
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    Yeah, agree MBT are quite useless within Spore itself. If we ever find MBT in our streets, means our outer defenses have been breached.

    Milans are not too good in built up areas.. basically its wired controlled and so you can basically just dodge around a corner. More effective in open areas too.

    Think 4x4 light strike vehicles are more effective in a builtup areas... (Halo's Warthog ). Of course, your only protection is speed....

  7. #147

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    Hmmm all the talk abt the weight of the MBT with all the armor guys chipping in.

    Btw any one knows how much FUEL a M1A1 consume when fully loaded?

    The M1A1 in Iraq have to stop after short burst of running, to cool its engine in the HEAT of the hot Iraqi sun.

    I suppose if u want to consider other factors like the logistics too. Even now the tanks are finding it hard to find space to train in SG, most of the tank movement is in Australia. some live firing conducted here only.

    Though I fail to see, how a patheic Light Tank with a puny 75mm gun can be of any threat in this world.

    Its armor is so "thin" in modern context that infantry's portable LAW would be enough to disable if not destroy it.
    its main gun is only 75mm
    and i think it cant even Fire on the move.

    Even the Apache that we are going to have isnt going to be ALL Longbow equipped. only some is.

    And from the YEAR we annouce to buy it, to the YEAR it ACTUALLY arrive. by then I think the Apache isnt going to be the "state of the art combat copter" any more.

    I was thinking the Tiger Eurocopter was the better choice when it was one of the contenders


    Needless to say,
    No prize for guess which fighter will replace the A4SU
    1) F-15
    2) Eurofighter
    3) Rafale

    with the exception of the French Super Puma, the Air force has been a largely US one. F5E Tigers, Hueys, A4, AH-64, C-130, E2C, KC-135, Fokkers 50, Chinooks..etc

    Since singapore has indicated an interest in the "transfer of technology" too and the "new" plane is expect to last 30 years.

    getting the F-15 is like buying a old auntie who will be a granny by 30 years later.


    Not to mention that Singapore's main AAM is still the Sidewinder...a puny short range IR AAM.
    It's "impressive" AMRAAM is still stored in Luke Air base in US, "waiting to be transferred to Singapore in event of a crisis"

    Like if it will arrive here in time of a crisis,

    at least the Eurofighter's deal includes the BVR missile, meteor, which unlike the US, will acutally allow singapore to have the BVR missible here in Singapore and not in some warehouse in some other country.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Tiger
    AMX 13-SM1 have been in service with Singapore for quite sometimes.
    Wonder if it is going to be replace.





    Armour is the backbone of the armed force.
    If it is to be replace, which one better ?
    US M1 Abrams : Too heavy
    UK Challenger : Laggi more heavy
    US M60 : A bit outed technology
    US Sherman : Unless the year now is 1941.
    Russian T-54 : I might as well surrender.

    Which tanks better ? Any recommedation ?
    Comments any?

    In my opinion AMX13 tank is an old and obseleted old cows..of course it should be replace.

  9. #149
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston
    Though I fail to see, how a patheic Light Tank with a puny 75mm gun can be of any threat in this world.
    Its armor is so "thin" in modern context that infantry's portable LAW would be enough to disable if not destroy it.
    its main gun is only 75mm and i think it cant even Fire on the move.
    That's why. I wonder what mindef is planning.
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  10. #150
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston
    Not to mention that Singapore's main AAM is still the Sidewinder...a puny short range IR AAM.
    It's "impressive" AMRAAM is still stored in Luke Air base in US, "waiting to be transferred to Singapore in event of a crisis"
    Like if it will arrive here in time of a crisis,
    This is a weird arrangement between Singapore and U.S.

    In term of crisis, if enemy launch an lighting assault, how would the missiles be deliver smoothly in quick response time and safetly to the battle zone.
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  11. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by King Tiger
    This is a weird arrangement between Singapore and U.S.

    In term of crisis, if enemy launch an lighting assault, how would the missiles be deliver smoothly in quick response time and safetly to the battle zone.
    It will be "carried" by the American fighter jets.. launched from some nearby aircraft carrier.

  12. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by King Tiger
    That's why. I wonder what mindef is planning.

    Maybe they are going to use them to block the causeway to slowdown the enemy advance...

  13. #153

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    so all here from Armour ah? which unit ah? and which year?

  14. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenscapes
    so all here from Armour ah? which unit ah? and which year?
    I did my BMT in 42 SAR after that got posted out. One of the few for whom the motto "Once armour always Armour" does not apply to.

  15. #155
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenscapes
    so all here from Armour ah? which unit ah? and which year?
    I am from infantry unit, combat foot soldier , just a military nuts.

    Also, check this out.
    What is your best SOC timing?
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  16. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by reno77
    It will be "carried" by the American fighter jets.. launched from some nearby aircraft carrier.
    The missiles are already in country late last year.

    Three Asian Countries to Get U.S. Missiles
    The U.S. government has approved the delivery of advanced air combat missiles to Taiwan, Thailand, and Singapore after agreeing to sell the missiles to the three countries a few years ago. When the missiles will actually be transferred is confidential.

    The Clinton administration announced plans to sell AIM-120C Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAMs) to Taiwan and Singapore in September 2000. Thailand reportedly made a similar deal, but no public record of it exists because the value of the possible sale did not cross the $14 million threshold required for the Pentagon publicly to inform Congress of the proposed transaction.

    In all three cases, the United States conditioned the delivery of the AMRAAMs, which independently home in on a target beyond the distance that a pilot can see, on neighboring countries in Asia acquiring a comparable missile. U.S. policy holds that the United States will not be the first to introduce advanced beyond-visual-range missiles into a region.

    In its annual report on Chinese military power released July 28, the Pentagon reported that China now possesses the Russian-made AA-12 Adder missile, which is comparable to the AMRAAM. The report marked the first public acknowledgement of a finding the United States made last year. The determination set in motion this past spring the delivery of the AMRAAMs to Taiwan, Thailand, and Singapore.

    Thailand and Singapore are not considered to be within the same region where China is thought to have deployed its AA-12 missiles. But the Bush administration told Congress earlier this year that Beijing’s ability to relocate the missiles and Russian offers to sell Adders to Malaysia create an imminent threat justifying AMRAAM deliveries to Thailand and Singapore.

    Taiwan could receive up to 200 AMRAAMs and Singapore as many as 100. Thailand is believed to have purchased less than 10 missiles. Japan and South Korea, which are classified as being in a different region than the three above countries, have previously purchased and received AMRAAMs.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyflash
    What's the role of intelligence? or u prefer that our armed force is ready to knock out anyone and armed to the teeth? have u considered the disgusting image of an armed Singapore force? have u considered the possibility of misfire/miscommunication?
    Hi skyflash,
    I dun get u on the above.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clown
    armbrust and spike can be fired anywhere. even in rooms.
    Well, the two weapons you mentioned CAN be fired in rooms, however, there must be a sufficient backblast distance. The Armbrust is 15m if I remember correctly. (knowledge from 2nd BSLC so go figure.) Not an infantry man so I can't be sure.

    I'm a digital warrior.

    Really an interesting thread here, more so when this is suppose to be a forum for camera lovers.

  19. #159
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    http://www.photomalaysia.com/forum/i...opic=2416&st=0

    Be sensible and watch what you said.

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus
    Yeah, agree MBT are quite useless within Spore itself. If we ever find MBT in our streets, means our outer defenses have been breached.

    Milans are not too good in built up areas.. basically its wired controlled and so you can basically just dodge around a corner. More effective in open areas too.

    Think 4x4 light strike vehicles are more effective in a builtup areas... (Halo's Warthog ). Of course, your only protection is speed....
    Why anti tank weapon like milan is wire guided because this way no matter where the tank run it will sure to hit it as it is guilded by an operator and there must a line of sight before the crew fire the round. So the wire is not an issue in fact it help in the accurately hitting the target. Even if the wire have broken off it will lock on the last target.
    Last edited by singscott; 5th February 2005 at 11:25 AM.

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