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Thread: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens 2u

  1. #41
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    Quote Originally Posted by White Wolf View Post
    Hello moderator, honestly how pro photographers are going to do?

    If a client can't tell the diff between a pro and armature who i assume charge a lower fee, then something is really wrong..

    To me, I pay for what I deemed is most valuable of my $ spent. Not necessary the cheapest nor the most expensive.
    one day I walk on a beach, it was a low tide and there are many starfish lying under hot sun,

    I saw a man throwing a starfish back into the sea, I ask him what's he doing,

    he replied, saving the starfish,

    I told him, there are thousands of them on the beach, it won't make any difference if he only help a few,

    he replied, it does make a difference to the one he thrown back to the sea.......
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  2. #42

    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    by offering the "invaders" advices, who are u trying to help? your own ricebowl(since u said u were invaded) or the invaders? did the invaders ask u for help or advice? how do u know the invaders are not happy charging cheap but getting lots of budget wedding couples? based on what? based on the fact that u feel invaded? why don't you conduct classes for pros on how to survive during these periods of invasion?

    so next time your neigbour want to sell his house for a lower price, stop him, and conduct a class for him to sell higher, so that he could never sell his house and so that it'd be easier to sell yours?

    your logic as a pro(i assumed) is so flawed im floored.
    What's wrong with the mods and senior pro photographers guiding newer photographers who are interested in excelling in the business of photography?

    Why they cannot try to repair and nurture their industry? Why must you stop them?

    If you want to charge low/earn a bit only/take a loss/waste time/but still happy/, by all means do your thing. So far we didn't see anyone posting unsolicited advices into the threads of the people advertising cheap services at the Photography Services Directory forum. Its mostly kept to the Photo Biz forum. So whats wrong?

    Should all the threads and advice all change to 'you all should just anyhow charge as long as you all happy its all good!' Maybe that logic no flaws?
    Last edited by sjackal; 5th August 2012 at 10:25 PM.
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  3. #43
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    anyway, there are many starfishes (wannabe) lying on the beach,

    they don't have the skills to live on land, they will die once the sun comes out

    if throwing them back to the sea,

    the very next day they will end up lying on the beach again,

    so why bother?



    ================================================== ==========
    those who really keen to be a professionals,

    be humble, learn whatever you can now,

    the seniors don't own you a living,

    want to listen, good,

    don't want to listen, so be it,

    we don't know will you still be there by next year or two anyway,

    if you are committed, proof yourself,

    attend seminars and workshops

    join the trade associations, get certified,






    directions already given, the rest is up to you.
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  4. #44
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    Really, why do working professionals even bother lowering themselves to entertain attention deprived flame baits who speak for the sole purpose of hearing their own voices?

  5. #45

    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    Quote Originally Posted by sjackal View Post
    What's wrong with the mods and senior pro photographers guiding newer photographers who are interested in excelling in the business of photography?

    Why they cannot try to repair and nurture their industry? Why must you stop them?

    If you want to charge low/earn a bit only/take a loss/waste time/but still happy/, by all means do your thing. So far we didn't see anyone posting unsolicited advices into the threads of the people advertising cheap services at the Photography Services Directory forum. Its mostly kept to the Photo Biz forum. So whats wrong?

    Should all the threads and advice all change to 'you all should just anyhow charge as long as you all happy its all good!' Maybe that logic no flaws?
    Er, when you go to your neighbour and lecture him on the fact that he is selling his house for too low and that it would hurt your chances of selling yours, it shows you are solely concerned for yourself only for selfush reasons at the same time looking desperate and obvious in need to better advertise your own house.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    So instead of wasting your expertise in persuasion of newbies to charge higher, you should spend quiet time reflecting why you cannot do the same. But you chose tge easier way out. Just tell them all chargr higher loh, so simple.
    Last edited by lancey; 6th August 2012 at 09:00 AM.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    If you are really concerned and care for the newbies, pass them your contact of clients or rope them in as apprentice, instead of playing tge same broken record of "charge higher leh".

    But it's asking too much I guess.

  8. #48
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    pass them your contact of clients or rope them in as apprentice
    now this is real nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    rope them in as apprentice
    its workable only if the person interested is willing to learn and be taught and have the potential.

  9. #49
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    Er, when you go to your neighbour and lecture him on the fact that he is selling his house for too low and that it would hurt your chances of selling yours, it shows you are solely concerned for yourself only for selfush reasons at the same time looking desperate and obvious in need to better advertise your own house.
    this is another nonsense.

    are you so charitable to care for everyone else and put everyone else above yourself?

    i seriously doubt so.

    you are not opening a charity here.

    who doesn't want to sell their house higher? of cos a better price is a good price.

  10. #50
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    So instead of wasting your expertise in persuasion of newbies to charge higher, you should spend quiet time reflecting why you cannot do the same. But you chose tge easier way out. Just tell them all chargr higher loh, so simple.
    another nonsense.

    why so the ones who is teaching be the ones reflecting?

    if they are qualifed enough to teach, why should they reflecting and not those learning reflecting?

    what you saying is as good as telling teachers to face the wall and reflect while the students can do things their way wrong or right.

    if an expert like what you call in your post needs to reflect, then why call him or her an expert?

    and why an expert need to follow a newbie instead?
    Last edited by sinned79; 6th August 2012 at 09:26 AM.

  11. #51

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    Personally I feel ppl do things for a reason. During bad times, prices for houses are low and yet ppl sell at a lost as they need $ to roll their a/c or lost their jobs.

    Likewise photographers wannabe charge a low price to attract clients as they are not established.

    So question is, will I as a client take a risk to hire him. I would'nt.. So I personally feel established photographers who are in the industry ling enough shouldn't be in competition with these group of ppl. Make sense?

  12. #52

    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    Quote Originally Posted by White Wolf View Post
    Personally I feel ppl do things for a reason. During bad times, prices for houses are low and yet ppl sell at a lost as they need $ to roll their a/c or lost their jobs.

    Likewise photographers wannabe charge a low price to attract clients as they are not established.

    So question is, will I as a client take a risk to hire him. I would'nt.. So I personally feel established photographers who are in the industry ling enough shouldn't be in competition with these group of ppl. Make sense?
    Yes, it's not about being in competition, it's about sharing with newer photogrs who are interested about charging rightly and advancing the business, what Catchlights said.

    But with some people making it so difficult with all the negativity and accusations, the real people who are interested losses out because instead of getting info they read all the quarrels.

    Do note that while there are people wishing to do it right and make it a viable business/income, there are also people who probably failed, refused to change despite that, and they might be hoping everyone else fail like they did, to accompany them and make their failure looks more acceptable.

    Whether to pick out good info discussed and think about the logic behind the thread's original purpose, or whether to allow it to be swayed by negative accusations, is up to the readers.

  13. #53

    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    Really, why do working professionals even bother lowering themselves to entertain attention deprived flame baits who speak for the sole purpose of hearing their own voices?
    True.

    Don't feed the troll.

  14. #54
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    I think we should refer those aspiring photographers who are keen to learn about this trade to join the trade associations, encourage them to attend the workshops, seminars run by industry leaders, subscribing the trade magazines and news letters,
    that is the best way to do, as they don't know who is the real pros and who is not.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  15. #55

    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    Just my 2c

    It is unfortunately that this photographer being bully by the clients (understanding from one side of the story and not defending him or anything), like anything else, S.H.1.T happens no matter how good you are... there are always nasty people around. As much as I sympathise the situation, just take it as lesson learn, deal with it and move on.

    I think there are 3 levels of photographers as far as business goes...

    1. The established photographer - these people has created their niche and understand their clients and generally not worry about its competition but rather worry how to better themselves (<3% of people)
    2. The establishing photographer - these group generally starting to understand their strength and weaknesses but yet to create a very niche for themselves, receive enough jobs to sustain their venture but not for any other stuff (10-20%)
    3. Starting photographer - As the name goes, this will apply to freelancer, new guy who trying out photography, etc.... (>70%)

    Generally,

    Group 1 is group who is rather quiet and generally don't feel that people who charge cheap will threaten them at all.
    Group 2 generally represent smaller group but get effected somewhat by the market due to the cheaper photographer if they don't play their card right...
    Group 3. generally represent the largest group which unfortunately in direct competition to their "peers" who charge at similar bracket but cheaper.

    By understanding where you fit in this group will make you understand if you are or not in direct competition with the market. but what you do to move away from a particular group is more important.

    My generally recommendation is, learn your skill and don't even think about charging or in business until you understand the whole idea of photography. Embark on your personal projects earlier on your journey will benefit you as personal project helps to to find your "voice" and this is the "voice" or "vision" that allow you to really start charging people for your work. Make sure your vision is strong and it is what the market would accept.

    Group 3, generally haven't reach a point to understand about the craft yet want to benefit from it...

    For example, when you charge an average of $1k-$2k for a portrait shoot, you won't really in direct competition or even worry about competitors who charge less than $500. There is an obvious obstacle to move from $500 to $1000, unless of course, your value is already at $1000 but you are selling it at $500. You will know that if you have more shoots that you can handle.

    So before those who prefer to slam professional for charging sky high price, they should think about that again. Those who think we like to encourage people to charge more before we can charge even further is nonsense... you can't charge more just because the market charge more... there are a lot more to it.

    Of course, many who encourage people to charge more coming from understanding that for a photographer to provide for the family, you do need a bit of money and charging below that doesn't help.

    Regards,

    Hart
    Last edited by Agetan; 6th August 2012 at 10:40 AM.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    Really, why do working professionals even bother lowering themselves to entertain attention deprived flame baits who speak for the sole purpose of hearing their own voices?
    any tom dick harry i know who makes a living from shooting is a working pro. Maybe learn to type off that high horse for awhile and smell reality. Pros aren't exactly nuclear scientists or neurosurgeons.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
    Yes, it's not about being in competition, it's about sharing with newer photogrs who are interested about charging rightly and advancing the business, what Catchlights said.

    But with some people making it so difficult with all the negativity and accusations, the real people who are interested losses out because instead of getting info they read all the quarrels.

    Do note that while there are people wishing to do it right and make it a viable business/income, there are also people who probably failed, refused to change despite that, and they might be hoping everyone else fail like they did, to accompany them and make their failure looks more acceptable.

    Whether to pick out good info discussed and think about the logic behind the thread's original purpose, or whether to allow it to be swayed by negative accusations, is up to the readers.
    how hard is it to tell someone to charge higher? just 3 words: "charge higher leh!"

    someone earlier just said the low chargers were "invading" the industry, and now u say u guys are trying to help them by educating them?
    so u feel threathened that's why u educate? or u educate because of genuine love?
    pick one and pick it fast because your cover's about to be blown anytime soon.

  18. #58
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    lancey, after reading your posts. you know what? i come to a conclusion.

    since u want transparency, generousity and equality.

    you should become a pastor or even open a charity!

    you are wasting your time in clubsnap now telling us what is wrong.

  19. #59

    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    I think we should refer those aspiring photographers who are keen to learn about this trade to join the trade associations, encourage them to attend the workshops, seminars run by industry leaders, subscribing the trade magazines and news letters,
    that is the best way to do, as they don't know who is the real pros and who is not.
    what about the invasion? let it go?

  20. #60

    Default Re: Here's another reason why you should not charge too cheap... in case this happens

    Quote Originally Posted by sinned79 View Post
    lancey, after reading your posts. you know what? i come to a conclusion.

    since u want transparency, generousity and equality.

    you should become a pastor or even open a charity!

    you are wasting your time in clubsnap now telling us what is wrong.
    the problem i have with some of the pros here is simple:

    they feel threatened, they tell others to charge higher to cover themselves, then they call it further education for the newbies for their OWN good. When u see hypocripsy(sp), you should make a stand immediately.

    Simple for you? don't need to be a pastor to understand simple human behaviour.

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