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Thread: polariser making images blurry.

  1. #1

    Default polariser making images blurry.

    Does it do this? I got myself a Hoya Polariser for MY D70 and today I thought I'd take a shot without it to see how the image looks after using it with the thing on for 2 weeks - pretty surprised to see that almost all shots taken with it on is a blurrier. What to do? It also seems to give everything a slight yellow cast.

    is the blurriness due to the fact my D70 can't focus with it on? or cause less light entering the lens means that the shutter speed is slower and I get subtle shake = blur.

    Last edited by THEMAN; 25th January 2005 at 07:48 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Pablo's Avatar
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    Hi,

    I havn't met a camera yet that can't auto focus with a CPF (circular polarizing filter).
    Especially the D70

    Is it a linear or circular type ??
    Time, is an effortless construction :)

  3. #3

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    and here's another image. The blur isn't as bad but the colour. . I am so surprised - been wondering why my shots were so lousy in colour. Taking off that piece off crap starting today. Its is circular polarising one.

    Last edited by THEMAN; 25th January 2005 at 07:59 AM.

  4. #4

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    if u using CPL,u should use it at bright light condition.....the purpose of CPL is to reduce the light reflection from non-metal surface or to enhance the colour of blue sky.....it shouldn't use in cloudy light sky....the photos u taken are in such condition.PL will intend to reduce the light passing through your lense....u may set ur shutter faster to reduce blur......

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    also, remove the UV filter from your lens and then mount the PL filter if you haven't done so. having 2 filters on top of each other only means more light loss.

    and i agree with eason, the whole idea of using PL is to cut glare and very bright sunlight, not recommended to be used when there is lower ambient light.

  6. #6
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    Did you set your white balance to auto or manually set it? Hoya have a BAD history of yellow cast, especially for their multi coated filters I have used. But then again, you are adding on another piece of glass in front, it should degrade the picture end of the day to some extend, moreover so that Hoya glass is cheap and lousy IMHO. So either shoot without a filter as much as possible or get a quality one.

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    yup. its a hoya. I didn't think much when I bought it. New to this DSLR business. White balance is auto. Anyhow - I've taken it off - been wondering why all my photos need to have yellow removed.. I'd bought the filter as a means to protect my lens. It was what I was suggested I pick up - @ cathay photo.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by theITguy
    Hoya glass is cheap and lousy IMHO.
    right~~~ any scientific proof?

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    Get a Nikon CIR-PL II, anybody wants to test drive it? Hehehe...

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    Or get a B+W C.P. I have 3 of them in different sizes

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    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THEMAN
    yup. its a hoya. I didn't think much when I bought it. New to this DSLR business. White balance is auto. Anyhow - I've taken it off - been wondering why all my photos need to have yellow removed.. I'd bought the filter as a means to protect my lens. It was what I was suggested I pick up - @ cathay photo.

    Hi..

    Did I read you right that you bought a Polariser to protect your lens? Or was that the UV filter you were reponding to. If it was a polariser, that is not why you buy a polariser...to protect your lens as well as use it to enhance colours or filter glares.

    I am also very surprise by your message about getting such bad results using a polariser. I am a firm believer in the polariser and have never gotten bad result from day one...even with the cheapest badest unknown brand ones used years ago.

    1)Can I know, are you shooting those picture through your office window?

    2)Okay this might sound insulting but I mean well....have you ever used a polariser before and do you know how it works?

    Like someone here mentioned earlier, never use two filters together as it will deteriorate the quality of the image....not so much the lighting. If you are shooting in A,S,P modes, placing a darken filter over your lens will just casuse your camera to COMPENSATE for it..unless you are shooting manual then you need to look into your viewfinder and re-adjust your expore's balance by way of the speed versus apeture ratio. Yes the filter will darken the VIEW you see in your camera's veiwfinder but not the final shot you take. It might make it harder to focus too if you are shooting in less then bright places. Also, if you are shooting through glass windows or even thin glass panel that is not tinted, it can sometimes screw up your focusing as the imperfection of the glass will be even more obvious when you have a polariser fitted on the lens as it enhances all the flaws of the glass...yes that means...it can screw up your focus..just a tab which is enough to make your picture appear abit blur. That is why I ask you if you shot your pictures through your office window.

    So any feedback on my second question so I can get a better idea?

    HOYA filters are not that BAD.... I have owned more then my share of it along with B+W and Nikon...they hold up very well with the better known brands. I ever did a test with using all this brands I mentioned along with two other yucky unknow brands. I challenge a few people to tell me if they can spot which. Most chicken out looking at them side by side and those that did not, failed to identity which is which...of course these are all amatuer hobbists...but isn;t that basically most of us here?

    Just my two stupid cents....
    Last edited by sammy888; 25th January 2005 at 11:24 AM.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by theITguy
    Did you set your white balance to auto or manually set it? Hoya have a BAD history of yellow cast, especially for their multi coated filters I have used. But then again, you are adding on another piece of glass in front, it should degrade the picture end of the day to some extend, moreover so that Hoya glass is cheap and lousy IMHO. So either shoot without a filter as much as possible or get a quality one.
    Really? I don't seems to have that problem .... I guess I am just lucky to be able to get good glass everytime ..... so, which one did you get? The Normal one or the HMC / SHMC edition? LOL .......

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    The understanding of the use of filter is important. Like for all PL the sun light must hit plane of th subject at a specific angle to get blue sky effect. Secondly, PL is for cutting out glare and reflection not just light, U use a ND for that. Lastly, the higher the level of multi-coating (a lens making method that allows more light through and less reflection) the better the quality of the picture, which also means U pay more. Personally, the B+W and Nikons are the best there are.

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    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommon
    The understanding of the use of filter is important. Like for all PL the sun light must hit plane of th subject at a specific angle to get blue sky effect. Secondly, PL is for cutting out glare and reflection not just light, U use a ND for that. Lastly, the higher the level of multi-coating (a lens making method that allows more light through and less reflection) the better the quality of the picture, which also means U pay more. Personally, the B+W and Nikons are the best there are.
    I fully agree with that when in the hands of a season pro who knows what to do with the filters...well lens and cameras too...

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    Hi..

    Did I read you right that you bought a Polariser to protect your lens? Or was that the UV filter you were reponding to. If it was a polariser, that is not why you buy a polariser...to protect your lens as well as use it to enhance colours or filter glares.

    I am also very surprise by your message about getting such bad results using a polariser. I am a firm believer in the polariser and have never gotten bad result from day one...even with the cheapest badest unknown brand ones used years ago.

    1)Can I know, are you shooting those picture through your office window?

    2)Okay this might sound insulting but I mean well....have you ever used a polariser before and do you know how it works?

    Like someone here mentioned earlier, never use two filters together as it will deteriorate the quality of the image....not so much the lighting. If you are shooting in A,S,P modes, placing a darken filter over your lens will just casuse your camera to COMPENSATE for it..unless you are shooting manual then you need to look into your viewfinder and re-adjust your expore's balance by way of the speed versus apeture ratio. Yes the filter will darken the VIEW you see in your camera's veiwfinder but not the final shot you take. It might make it harder to focus too if you are shooting in less then bright places. Also, if you are shooting through glass windows or even thin glass panel that is not tinted, it can sometimes screw up your focusing as the imperfection of the glass will be even more obvious when you have a polariser fitted on the lens as it enhances all the flaws of the glass...yes that means...it can screw up your focus..just a tab which is enough to make your picture appear abit blur. That is why I ask you if you shot your pictures through your office window.

    So any feedback on my second question so I can get a better idea?

    HOYA filters are not that BAD.... I have owned more then my share of it along with B+W and Nikon...they hold up very well with the better known brands. I ever did a test with using all this brands I mentioned along with two other yucky unknow brands. I challenge a few people to tell me if they can spot which. Most chicken out looking at them side by side and those that did not, failed to identity which is which...of course these are all amatuer hobbists...but isn;t that basically most of us here?

    Just my two stupid cents....
    yup. Bought a new d70 and read that I should get a filter to protect the lense - for some reason I was sold a polariser.. didn't think anything of it. Oh well. I have one now I'll try it on a blue sky day... I've NEVER used a polariser before. and I don't know how to use the D70 fully yet. Been on a P+S before I mostly shoot in Aperture mode - still getting to grips with the camera.

    The photos are taken out of my apartment here in Sydney. No windows between me and the view.

    Here's some photos I took yesterday without the damn filter. Stupid = me. Anyhow.. taking it off seemed to have fix the visual quality of my photos. Me in with the D70 all over again. Could someone comment on the post work - I like my blacks crushed + higher con images


  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by THEMAN
    yup. Bought a new d70 and read that I should get a filter to protect the lense - for some reason I was sold a polariser.. didn't think anything of it. Oh well. I have one now I'll try it on a blue sky day... I've NEVER used a polariser before. and I don't know how to use the D70 fully yet. Been on a P+S before I mostly shoot in Aperture mode - still getting to grips with the camera.

    The photos are taken out of my apartment here in Sydney. No windows between me and the view.

    Here's some photos I took yesterday without the damn filter. Stupid = me. Anyhow.. taking it off seemed to have fix the visual quality of my photos. Me in with the D70 all over again. Could someone comment on the post work - I like my blacks crushed + higher con images
    Are these 2 photos related to polariser filter? If not, I would suggest you to start a new thread.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    TheMan,

    I have 2 PFs and they produce different colour cast. One is more yellowish and the other bluish. Look through your PF against the light and you could notice the cast.

    Probably find out how PF works in defferent lighting conditions. You don't need to use PF all the time. The examples you've shown are the situations where PF would not be necessary e.g. dull overcast sky and interior.

    For bluriness, check the shutter speed whether it is within handheld limits or use a tripod.

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    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Okie...my boss just left town...so have abit more time to write my two cents heh...

    yup. Bought a new d70 and read that I should get a filter to protect the lense - for some reason I was sold a polariser.. didn't think anything of it. Oh well. I have one now
    Damn you got con in a way then Well that partially explain the surprise you got when you used it on your lens. Now...if you are into shooting outdoor scenes and want deeper blue sky or ( there must be blue sky to begin with okay? It does not do it by magic heh) enhance overall colouration ( it does not always work as you will find out and as you get better at using or not using it) that filter purchase is a blessing in disguise. I have a feeling it did not cost you too much too as you bought it without much fuss (?) because if he was to have sold you a Nikon or B+W polariser...you would have rise hell for sure as it cost an arm and a leg...or one cheap zoom lens! heh For now anyway...forget the more costly ones till you get better at photo taking.

    No one would use a polariser to 'protect' their lens for one very important reason. Filter's darker tint. You noticed? heheh. Dark tinted filters tend to "steal" from you in terms of shutter speed (imagine without the filter on, the camera in Auto mode might set up your shutter speed of 1/125 for the apeture opening you dial-in. With the filter on, you could now be shooting at 1/60 or worst 1/30 due (at the same apeture setting) to less light entering your lens due to the darker tint.

    So now shooting at 1/30 speed would require that you be pretty steady with your hands cradling your camera. So unlike shooting at 1/125, at 1/30 you need to be more steady. At slower shutter speed, you hardly can get away with it now! heheh..I suspect that is why you find yourself getting more blurred images with the filter on. Also note, it matters not even if you shoot in really bright sunlight, a tinted filter will always steal about 1-2 stops from you..just that in brighter condition you get away with it better as you might still have much higher shutter speed left to you..etc Hope you understand what I mean. I am trying to explain it as plain as I can since you might not be familiar with photo equipment.

    You can stop it from "stealing" your shutter speed, in a way. By selecting S mode which is speed priority. You set the speed say to 125 but let the camere select the apeture opening for you. Say for example it select f11. Now when you place the filter over the lens, the camera will noticed it is darken now with filter's dark tint, so it automatically will re-adjust from f11 to f5.6. This works Fine if you are not fussy about depth of field. But of course this can only go so far till you run out of f-stops heh.

    Either way, they have their limits too as you will soon find out as you get familiar with your equipment. Learning to balance the use will give you varying image difference which is where creativity comes into play heh BUt that is another story.

    I'll try it on a blue sky day... I've NEVER used a polariser before. and I don't know how to use the D70 fully yet. Been on a P+S before I mostly shoot in Aperture mode - still getting to grips with the camera.

    AH!...okay...this might have escaped you or the fellow selling it to you might not have told you. The polariser MUST BE ADJUSTED for OPTIMUM enhancement. If you take your polariser out now and look at it closer, it is made up actually of two free-rotating rims or rings mechanicaly linked to form one filter. Unseen by your naked eye..the polariser is really a special screen filter. By looking at a scene or subject through your viewfinder, when you rotate the outer rim slowly, clock wise or anti clock wise,(when you have attached it to your lens) you will start to realise what a polariser is all about. You will see some surfaces start to get darker in colour, lose it's sheen or reflection too in the case of some glassy surfaces giving you a clearer definition of the scene or object(s). Oh...you can also do this by just holding the lens to your eye and then you rotate the entire filter clockwise or anti-clockwise. As I said, the angle of lighting hitting your lens or eye must be from a certain angulation so sometime it works very well, moderate or sometime it does not. And sometime it works on certain parts of a whole scene while it does not effect other parts. So playing around with it abit will help you get a better understanding about what polarising a scene or object is all about.

    NOw your the other problem being the colour you say was not as good as when you shoot without the filter. One thing some people don't notice is that a polariser can not only enhance colour but it can also do the opposite when used wrongly especially when the contrast is bad that day you are shooting or certain surfaces even. Some get that greenish tint or yellow...etc. A polariser basically filters light rays....very much like when in school they teach you that a glass prism can break down white light to create rainbow colours. Something similar happens here. The polariser is not to produce blue sky as per say..so don;t misunderstand that it is ONLY USE to make the sky more blue or create better colour or deeper colour. It just "seem" to do so. What it really does is take away the glares and just letting the true colour of the surface come through to your lens more "purely" (trying to be as layman as I can get heheh ). When I do product shoot in my office which is indoor. I sometime use a polariser. Why? To help me minimse the unwanted reflection or glare that is seen on my product I am shooting. Maybe one day I will shoot some stuff to better illustrate this to you. Suffice to say, I am just trying to give you abit more information so you don;t think you bought yourself a "lemon" system. LOL. I swear by all my polarisers. I use them each time I get if it can somehow enhance the shots. And no I dont use it to "protect" my lens heheh.. In fact my polarisers NEEDS protection themselves!!!! heheh.


    The photos are taken out of my apartment here in Sydney. No windows between me and the view.

    Okay got it...but as I have mentioned above..it is a case of slower speed and slight hand shake that is now more pronounce due to slower speed since you might be shooting in A or P mode especially. One final tip for you about using the polariser. No matter if it is an over cast sky, very sunny day or whatever situation "inspire" you to put the polariser to your lens, always...always...recheck your shutter speed in your viewfinder to make sure it is fast enough to be hand held for the shot.


    Here's some photos I took yesterday without the damn filter. Stupid = me. Anyhow.. taking it off seemed to have fix the visual quality of my photos. Me in with the D70 all over again. Could someone comment on the post work - I like my blacks crushed + higher con images
    Yes I have to agree your photoshopped version looks very much better looking. That is the good thing about digital photography, you have abit more control over your final results if you are handy with digital desktop graphic programs. Sure there will always be debate on that issue of shooting better and less correction blah blah blah... But that is the future of digital photography and previously with film photography, you need to have your own darkroom to do all that but now anyone with a computer can do so but of course with more creative control means more work on your part to learn how to do it and spend time touching up or reformat your pictures. But then again...if you want to leave it as it is..that is fine too. Uninstall photoshop from your PC or MAC and spend more time practicing your shooting with the camera to that point your shots don;t need an inche of manipulation to improve it. If that is ever possible at all heheh BAH!..that will never happen heheh...at least not for me. Well hope that clear up some doubts about your polariser problem heh..

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by THEMAN
    yup. its a hoya. I didn't think much when I bought it. New to this DSLR business. White balance is auto. Anyhow - I've taken it off - been wondering why all my photos need to have yellow removed.. I'd bought the filter as a means to protect my lens. It was what I was suggested I pick up - @ cathay photo.
    Wa you are definitely taken for a ride. But HEY! what's the problem? A polarizer should be on your shopping list. But to protect your lens, get a UV one.

    Anyway, this tread is heavy reading. But all you need to know is:

    1. there are conditions where the polarizer is used - not just anywhere all the time, like that overcast pic you posted.
    2. polarizers do not foul the focusing. Just taken some amazing images with a polarizer on my 50mm nikkor. Wa... DAM SHARP.

    Just press on man!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mervlam
    right~~~ any scientific proof?

    Well, I have 4 Hoya filters, one of them SHMC if not wrong (sold due to strong yellow cast). I did often get finger prints on the filters due to newbie usage of my equipment the last time. Clean them with Lenspen, colour reflection of the coating changed colour. Over time in my dry cabinet it fogged up, needs constant cleaning. That happens to a Tokina CP. The B+W so far no such problem, and durable even after I dropped it on the floor while checking my equipment.

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