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Thread: Full Frame vs Lens!

  1. #1

    Default Full Frame vs Lens!

    Hey guys, I'm an amateur photographer thinking of upgrading my gear by the end of the year or so...

    I'm currently doing event based/sports photography as well as street/architectural photography in my free time with the following gear:
    Canon 60D
    28mm F1.8
    50mm F1.4
    24-105mm F4

    Looking to get an edge equipment wise for wide angle/low light photography and having more reach is always a nice addition for me as i use the 105mm end quite as much as I use the 24mm end.

    Therfore, I intend to either get:

    1) 5D Mk III
    --For the Full Frame advantage of both wider angle and very good high ISO performance.

    2) 10-22mm F3.5-4.5 or 10-22mm F3.5-4.5
    70-200mm F2.8 Mk II Speedlight 430EX II
    70-300mm F4-5.6
    --To cover my wide angle needs, extra reach and to either get me a nice F2.8 lens for sports or a flash to cover my low light photography needs.

    Probably I could get more with 2nd hand lens/flash as well for option 2 though I'm not sure if buying second hand is worth the savings as well.

    And do note that I'm not paid for my photos so buying 1 or 2 would mean a long time before I can afford the other option to compliment my kit.

    What are your opinions?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Full Frame vs Lens!

    Hi there,

    The full frame jump has always been seen as a milestone for most photographers and if you have the budget, go for it! =) You can also keep a look out for the next rumored upcoming full frame which might have 19 AF points but much cheaper than the 5DMKIII.

    As for the lenses, the 10-22 is an EF-S lens which means it should not be used with full frame cameras. For wide angles, you can consider the 17-40mm F4 L (cheaper option) or the 16-35mm F2.8 L (more expensive option). If you would like an even wider angle lens, you can also consider the Sigma 12-24mm lens which is the widest non-fisheye lens for full frame currently available.

    Hope this helps =) cheers...

    Quote Originally Posted by LiQuiFireX View Post
    Hey guys, I'm an amateur photographer thinking of upgrading my gear by the end of the year or so...

    I'm currently doing event based/sports photography as well as street/architectural photography in my free time with the following gear:
    Canon 60D
    28mm F1.8
    50mm F1.4
    24-105mm F4

    Looking to get an edge equipment wise for wide angle/low light photography and having more reach is always a nice addition for me as i use the 105mm end quite as much as I use the 24mm end.

    Therfore, I intend to either get:

    1) 5D Mk III
    --For the Full Frame advantage of both wider angle and very good high ISO performance.

    2) 10-22mm F3.5-4.5 or 10-22mm F3.5-4.5
    70-200mm F2.8 Mk II Speedlight 430EX II
    70-300mm F4-5.6
    --To cover my wide angle needs, extra reach and to either get me a nice F2.8 lens for sports or a flash to cover my low light photography needs.

    Probably I could get more with 2nd hand lens/flash as well for option 2 though I'm not sure if buying second hand is worth the savings as well.

    And do note that I'm not paid for my photos so buying 1 or 2 would mean a long time before I can afford the other option to compliment my kit.

    What are your opinions?

  3. #3

    Default

    I suppose your budget is around 4.2 to 4.5k? Are you selling your 60D? You might want keep 60D for extra reach plus and has not bad af system.

    If i am you i would opt for 5D2 and remaining money goes to a telephoto lens.

    5D3 is nice but if you have a budget you cannot have everything.

    Also comparing the two options i will go for option 2. Given your currrent lens setup getting 5D3 doesn't get 'wider' than 60D with 10-22. Also going option 2 means you need lenses to go wider and even further. That's why I think option 2 allows you to be better equipped.

    If you want 5D3 then save more money for lenses.
    Last edited by gundamseed84; 17th July 2012 at 06:42 AM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full Frame vs Lens!

    Quote Originally Posted by LiQuiFireX View Post
    Hey guys, I'm an amateur photographer thinking of upgrading my gear by the end of the year or so...

    I'm currently doing event based/sports photography as well as street/architectural photography in my free time with the following gear:
    Canon 60D
    28mm F1.8
    50mm F1.4
    24-105mm F4

    Looking to get an edge equipment wise for wide angle/low light photography and having more reach is always a nice addition for me as i use the 105mm end quite as much as I use the 24mm end.

    Therfore, I intend to either get:

    1) 5D Mk III
    --For the Full Frame advantage of both wider angle and very good high ISO performance.

    2) 10-22mm F3.5-4.5 or 10-22mm F3.5-4.5
    70-200mm F2.8 Mk II Speedlight 430EX II
    70-300mm F4-5.6
    --To cover my wide angle needs, extra reach and to either get me a nice F2.8 lens for sports or a flash to cover my low light photography needs.

    Probably I could get more with 2nd hand lens/flash as well for option 2 though I'm not sure if buying second hand is worth the savings as well.

    And do note that I'm not paid for my photos so buying 1 or 2 would mean a long time before I can afford the other option to compliment my kit.

    What are your opinions?
    If you don't feel restricted by your 60D, perhaps consider using your intended budget (for 5DmkIII) to get Tokina 11-16/2.8 and EF 70-200/2.8L
    You probably could sell off the 24-105 if you subsequently find that you don't use it much.
    Exploring! :)

  5. #5
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full Frame vs Lens!

    Your needs are pretty much all over the shop. You need to figure out what is your most pressing and most important needs are and focus on that first. If sports, then 70-200/2.8. If events 17-55/2.8. If landscape 10-22.

    Which is most important to you now? only you can answer that yourself.

  6. #6
    Moderator rhino123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full Frame vs Lens!

    Quote Originally Posted by LiQuiFireX View Post
    Hey guys, I'm an amateur photographer thinking of upgrading my gear by the end of the year or so...

    I'm currently doing event based/sports photography as well as street/architectural photography in my free time with the following gear:
    Canon 60D
    28mm F1.8
    50mm F1.4
    24-105mm F4

    Looking to get an edge equipment wise for wide angle/low light photography and having more reach is always a nice addition for me as i use the 105mm end quite as much as I use the 24mm end.

    Therfore, I intend to either get:

    1) 5D Mk III
    --For the Full Frame advantage of both wider angle and very good high ISO performance.

    2) 10-22mm F3.5-4.5 or 10-22mm F3.5-4.5
    70-200mm F2.8 Mk II Speedlight 430EX II
    70-300mm F4-5.6
    --To cover my wide angle needs, extra reach and to either get me a nice F2.8 lens for sports or a flash to cover my low light photography needs.

    Probably I could get more with 2nd hand lens/flash as well for option 2 though I'm not sure if buying second hand is worth the savings as well.

    And do note that I'm not paid for my photos so buying 1 or 2 would mean a long time before I can afford the other option to compliment my kit.

    What are your opinions?

    You are doing sport photography? You might want to look into 1DmkIV. It had near to full frame sensor (APS-H) and many say is the best of both world... got the reach (x1.3 crop factor), great high ISO performance, fast burst rate (10 fps) and full weather proof body. The only problem I find, was its weigh...

    I believe that with the introduction of 1DX, a second hand 1DmkIV (http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/buy-s...on-1dmkiv.html) should be around the same price as a new 5DmkIII, so price wise should be very affordable (if you have the budget for mkIII, you should have the budget for the 1DmkIV. Also I would suggest that you get a 70-200 f2.8 mk II too. That kit should keep you going for sometime to come.
    Last edited by rhino123; 17th July 2012 at 08:46 AM.
    I am not a photographer, just someone who happened to have a couple of cameras.
    My lousy shots

  7. #7

    Default Re: Full Frame vs Lens!

    Changing to full-frame means you have to get a longer lens to do sports photography. Full frame body with a long lens are likely to cost you a bomb. IMHO, it's only logical to get the lens first then you change your camera.
    D200

  8. #8

    Default Re: Full Frame vs Lens!

    Quote Originally Posted by bruggink View Post
    Changing to full-frame means you have to get a longer lens to do sports photography. Full frame body with a long lens are likely to cost you a bomb. IMHO, it's only logical to get the lens first then you change your camera.
    Just to clarify.. The combo I'm referring to is a full frame body and 70-200mm f2.8 (as it's the lens you have indicated). Alternatively, you may consider other lenses like the Canon's 70-300mm, 70-200mm f4 or other 3rd party telephoto lenses.
    D200

  9. #9

    Default Re: Full Frame vs Lens!

    Thanks for all the quick replies guys, they are much appreciated! Just to make things clearer:

    1) I intend to keep my 60D, as both a backup and as a simple system to use like on holidays for example.

    2) Yes, I guess I will appreciate an ultra wide like a 10-22mm.

    3) Yes, I do find my 60D limiting, I usually use all 9 AF points and am not a centre AF point guy and even so always tend to focus/recompose my shots. Furthermore, I have issues with the amount of noise on my images at ISO6400 when I shoot in really dark events (Church) and a shallow depth of field doesn't always work in my shots to compensate for bad lighting. A Full Frame would seem be more ideal as my 24mm would give a FOV of 24mm instead of 37mm on my 60D as well, which is much appreciated as well.

    4) Even though a 5D MKII would be "ideal" budget minded solution for me but however for the above reasons, I beg to differ along with the not-so-good ergonomics as the 5D MKIII. Furthermore, 3.9FPS just isn't as ideal for sports but yet again some sports photographers that feel my 60D's 5.3FPS isn't ideal too. Though it probably doesn't mean I need 8FPS as well (refer to my next point)

    5) Ironically, I don't really like shootings sports as much as events, the only reason why I'm doing so, is due to more opportunities in sports photography tend to present me more often for some reason. A F2.8 zoom would make my life easier per say but I don't think I would be wanting a 1D MKIV for now, though a 1DX is always nice :P

    6) I don't really see myself owning a 17-55mm F2.8 for events though trying one recently in the shop, it didn't seem to impress me so far though I might be wrong.

    7) On the contrary, my most frequently used lens is my 24-105mm currently and is my favourite lens for walk around/travel, though I could use a lens with less distortion though it's something I can live with with post processing around.
    Last edited by LiQuiFireX; 17th July 2012 at 09:53 AM.

  10. #10
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full Frame vs Lens!

    You seems to know what you want. I guess asking for suggestion is quite unnecessary. Good luck in your hunt.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Full Frame vs Lens!

    Yes, it seems like I know what I want, but I would like to ask for opinions on the direction I'm heading or whether I'm actually heading in the right direction in the first place.

  12. #12
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LiQuiFireX
    Yes, it seems like I know what I want, but I would like to ask for opinions on the direction I'm heading or whether I'm actually heading in the right direction in the first place.
    There's no right or wrong direction. It all depends on YOU the owner/user.
    If you listen to all the advice here you may end up more confused than ever!
    Exploring! :)

  13. #13
    Member Aikiway's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full Frame vs Lens!

    From personal experience I would say:

    - Depend on what kind of sports photography, you might find your telephoto lens limited too.
    - I got the mk3, and together with my 24-105, I've yet to regret my purchase.

    Quote Originally Posted by LiQuiFireX View Post
    Thanks for all the quick replies guys, they are much appreciated! Just to make things clearer:

    1) I intend to keep my 60D, as both a backup and as a simple system to use like on holidays for example.

    2) Yes, I guess I will appreciate an ultra wide like a 10-22mm.

    3) Yes, I do find my 60D limiting, I usually use all 9 AF points and am not a centre AF point guy and even so always tend to focus/recompose my shots. Furthermore, I have issues with the amount of noise on my images at ISO6400 when I shoot in really dark events (Church) and a shallow depth of field doesn't always work in my shots to compensate for bad lighting. A Full Frame would seem be more ideal as my 24mm would give a FOV of 24mm instead of 37mm on my 60D as well, which is much appreciated as well.

    4) Even though a 5D MKII would be "ideal" budget minded solution for me but however for the above reasons, I beg to differ along with the not-so-good ergonomics as the 5D MKIII. Furthermore, 3.9FPS just isn't as ideal for sports but yet again some sports photographers that feel my 60D's 5.3FPS isn't ideal too. Though it probably doesn't mean I need 8FPS as well (refer to my next point)

    5) Ironically, I don't really like shootings sports as much as events, the only reason why I'm doing so, is due to more opportunities in sports photography tend to present me more often for some reason. A F2.8 zoom would make my life easier per say but I don't think I would be wanting a 1D MKIV for now, though a 1DX is always nice :P

    6) I don't really see myself owning a 17-55mm F2.8 for events though trying one recently in the shop, it didn't seem to impress me so far though I might be wrong.

    7) On the contrary, my most frequently used lens is my 24-105mm currently and is my favourite lens for walk around/travel, though I could use a lens with less distortion though it's something I can live with with post processing around.
    ==================================================
    Canon 5DMK3 |Fujifilm X-E2, X-T1|

  14. #14

    Default Re: Full Frame vs Lens!

    Quote Originally Posted by LiQuiFireX View Post

    1) 5D Mk III
    --For the Full Frame advantage of both wider angle and very good high ISO performance.

    2) 10-22mm F3.5-4.5 or 10-22mm F3.5-4.5
    70-200mm F2.8 Mk II Speedlight 430EX II
    70-300mm F4-5.6
    --To cover my wide angle needs, extra reach and to either get me a nice F2.8 lens for sports or a flash to cover my low light photography needs.

    Probably I could get more with 2nd hand lens/flash as well for option 2 though I'm not sure if buying second hand is worth the savings as well.

    And do note that I'm not paid for my photos so buying 1 or 2 would mean a long time before I can afford the other option to compliment my kit.

    What are your opinions?
    The widest on FF is 12mm, the widest on APS-C (Canon 1.6x crop) is 12.8mm with a Sigma 8-16.
    IMO, its not that big a FF advantage in this area.

    If you shoot sports, the crop on APS-C may be an advantage to you.

    I would think that if there is a need to prioritize, get the 10-22 and 70-200 first, then consider the body later (and hopefully the price would have dropped a little)
    Your current setup on APS-C is a bit 'far' from your intended. The widest is only 24mm and the longest 105mm.
    Getting the lenses 1st will solve most of your needs (ie. landscape/architecture; sports).

  15. #15

    Default Re: Full Frame vs Lens!

    Hey guys, I've given some thought bout what I want, and I've got a main deciding question to ask! How does good high ISO performance perform against F2.8?
    Last edited by LiQuiFireX; 21st July 2012 at 01:09 PM.

  16. #16
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full Frame vs Lens!

    Quote Originally Posted by LiQuiFireX View Post
    Hey guys, I've given some thought bout what I want, and I've got a main deciding question to ask! How does good high ISO performance perform against F2.8?
    Different characteristics.
    I see where you're going with this. You're thinking mainly abt shutter speed in low light.
    But large aperture lenses aren't only abt light gathering ability.
    Exploring! :)

  17. #17
    Member banana0ne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full Frame vs Lens!

    Quote Originally Posted by LiQuiFireX View Post
    Hey guys, I've given some thought bout what I want, and I've got a main deciding question to ask! How does good high ISO performance perform against F2.8?
    ISO performance is most of the time, better than Crop sensor camera.

    And oh boy, you buy a full frame camera with high ISO capability, you still need to buy lenses to maximize its abilities. lol you buy a full frame but with a lousy lens, your not going anywhere, that's my honest opinion...
    I dunno!!!
    It's banana-zero-neh. :)

  18. #18

    Default Re: Full Frame vs Lens!

    if i am given $XXXX to buy equipment and had to chose between body and lens, I will always choose lens.

    Bodies these days are really good but the resale price falls faster than lens, whereas Lens will retain their value over a longer period of time.
    As you are not a pro-tographer (me is not either) we cannot use a ROI method to decide if you should get lens or body. In the end your satisfaction still counts the most
    宁愿遇见丢失幼崽的母熊,也不愿碰上做蠢事的愚人

  19. #19

    Default Re: Full Frame vs Lens!

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    Different characteristics.
    I see where you're going with this. You're thinking mainly abt shutter speed in low light.
    But large aperture lenses aren't only abt light gathering ability.
    Nope, not talking about shutter speed. I'm talking about noise! Will images from a F2.8 lens on a 60D at ISO3200 be less noisy than a 5Dmkiii at 6400 at F4?

    Quote Originally Posted by banana0ne View Post
    ISO performance is most of the time, better than Crop sensor camera.

    And oh boy, you buy a full frame camera with high ISO capability, you still need to buy lenses to maximize its abilities. lol you buy a full frame but with a lousy lens, your not going anywhere, that's my honest opinion...
    I believe the 24-105 F4,28 1.8 and 50 1.4 are decent enough unless you feel otherwise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma View Post
    if i am given $XXXX to buy equipment and had to chose between body and lens, I will always choose lens.

    Bodies these days are really good but the resale price falls faster than lens, whereas Lens will retain their value over a longer period of time.
    As you are not a pro-tographer (me is not either) we cannot use a ROI method to decide if you should get lens or body. In the end your satisfaction still counts the most
    Yes, I agree that lens>body in most cases. Therefore I haven't jumped on buying the 5D mkiii yet.

  20. #20
    Member banana0ne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full Frame vs Lens!

    I believe the 24-105 F4,28 1.8 and 50 1.4 are decent enough unless you feel otherwise?
    by all means, if you feel those are enough for your needs then go on 5dmIII.
    I dunno!!!
    It's banana-zero-neh. :)

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