Sigma 500DG Super VS Canon 580EX??

[Hommie]

Hi all,

I have a 420EX with my 300D, due to the lack of control and lower recycling speed on the flash and cam, I am thinking of upgrading to a more powerful flash for event photography.

Sigma 500DG Super is half the price of 580EX and have a good review but is the recycle speed good for burst mode? Is it as powerful as 580EX?

580EX is expensive but heard that it has great recycle speed(instant). I also heard that 580EX have issue with 300D?

Thanks for any comments/help....

[Hommie]

Anyone, any comments??

[xl1]

if u not using wireless trigering, then go for Sigma 500 dg
i use sigma before and it was good as canon, but when using infrared triggering, i have a problem in certain angle in sigma reciever while canon is still firing at same angle that i have problem with sigma.

[Splutter]

I owned the sigma b4, now I'm using the 580EX. As far as I can tell, the recharge rate on the 580 is way faster than that of the sigma, even 550 also faster than the sigma.

[Prismatic]

580EX recycling is amazingly fast. Can stand on it's own even without CP-E2/3. Higher guide no. for more versatile use. If you are going to use it on burst mode for extend period of time, better to get the 580EX,it's going to be more reliable. I've friends who are complaining about the 500 failing after only one year.

[Hommie]

Thanks! Only wish that 580EX isn't so ex!

[imaginary_number]

If you've got cash to spare and make some decent cash from event photography, go for the 580ex. Otherwise, just get the sigma 500dg super.

By the way, just a friendly note, don't confuse occasional underexposure on the 300d+420ex with insufficient flash power. Otherwise, you might still get the same result with a more powerful ETTL flash. Of course, if you're familiar with the ETTL metering pattern, then this point is moot.

[Hommie]

Originally Posted by imaginary_number If you've got cash to spare and make some decent cash from event photography, go for the 580ex. Otherwise, just get the sigma 500dg super. By the way, just a friendly note, don't confuse occasional underexposure on the 300d+420ex with insufficient flash power. Otherwise, you might still get the same result with a more powerful ETTL flash. Of course, if you're familiar with the ETTL metering pattern, then this point is moot.

The problem is there's no way of controlling the FEC on cam and on the flash itself unless I hack 300D. I can't increase the flash power when I needed it to becoz everything is auto.

[imaginary_number]

Originally Posted by Hommie The problem is there's no way of controlling the FEC on cam and on the flash itself unless I hack 300D. I can't increase the flash power when I needed it to becoz everything is auto.

Ok, perhaps the sigma would be a good choice for u then. It's considerably more affordable, relatively powerful and it works with ETTL-II as well.

[denniskee]

Originally Posted by imaginary_number Ok, perhaps the sigma would be a good choice for u then. It's considerably more affordable, relatively powerful and it works with ETTL-II as well.

Sorry, I thought all EX flash works with ETTL-II. It is the camera must 1st of all have this function, for now, only 20D, 1DMkII & 1DSMKII has it. Next factor is the lens must have the distant feedback function to the camera.

[imaginary_number]

Originally Posted by denniskee Sorry, I thought all EX flash works with ETTL-II. It is the camera must 1st of all have this function, for now, only 20D, 1DMkII & 1DSMKII has it. Next factor is the lens must have the distant feedback function to the camera.

Yes, but if u read my reply again, u'll realize that I was talking about the Sigma 500DG Super, not the Canon EX flashes. Distance feedback is not a compulsory factor to see the improvements in ETTL-II; even without it, the ETTL-II algorithm gives more consistent exposures.

And just to add, I added the point about the 500DG being compatible with ETTL-II because it's a well known fact that Sigma didn't purchase the Canon protocols and thus use reverse engineering to emulate the communication signals.

[denniskee]

Oops, I should have stated ETTL compitable flash, not EX series flash in my statement. sorry for the mis-understanding.

I remember reading if the lens dont have distant feedback function, the system will revert back to ETTL. Or did I remember wrongly, hm... sign that age is catching up, though still only in my 30++.

Ha ha ha.

[imaginary_number]

Originally Posted by denniskee Oops, I should have stated ETTL compitable flash, not EX series flash in my statement. sorry for the mis-understanding.

It's ok. But not all ETTL compatible flash will work well with ETTL-II, e.g. some of the SCA adaptors from Metz need to be updated.

Quote: I remember reading if the lens dont have distant feedback function, the system will revert back to ETTL.

I believe the addition of distance info is just one of the improvements in ETTL-II. My conclusions are based on my usage in event coverage with my previous D60 and my current 20D with the Sigma 500DG and a lens w/o distance info. Exposures seem more consistent in my case. I think that the flash metering pattern has been changed (for the better).

[mpenza]

Flash metering has been improved since the D60. The 10D offers better exposure than the D60 which is tied too much to the focus point.

[denniskee]

So am I right to say it is the camera's flash metering pattern that had been improved, ie flash not a factor here?

Anyway, my understanding for metz flash is that even though you have a SCA adaptor, it is still not a real ETTL system like when a sigma ETTL compitable flash or a speedlite EX series flash.

Metz uses the flash own system to calculate the Light Out Put (LOP) base on the pre-flash (using its own sensor to detect the pre-flash).

For the sigma & speedlite, it is the camera thats doing the calculation base on the pre-flash (using the camera's sensor to detect the pre-flash).

May be those who use Metz flash can chip in their knowledge, pls.

Thanks.

[Prismatic]

Flash metering is done by the flash, not the camera as far as I know. The camera only calculates the ambient light metering.

[imaginary_number]

Originally Posted by Prismatic Flash metering is done by the flash, not the camera as far as I know. The camera only calculates the ambient light metering.

For an auto-thyristor flash, that's true. For an ETTL flash, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

According to photonotes:

Originally Posted by photonotes.org Second, the preflash light is analyzed by the same evaluative metering system that the camera uses to meter ambient light. This means it meters through the lens and is harder to fool than external sensors, isn’t confused by bounced light and does not read anything off the surface of the film. For what it’s worth, unlike the TTL flash meter, the E-TTL metering sensor cannot be seen by the curious - it’s hidden away up in the pentaprism (or roof mirror in low-end EOS cameras) housing.

[imaginary_number]

Originally Posted by denniskee So am I right to say it is the camera's flash metering pattern that had been improved, ie flash not a factor here?

Well, I think that's correct, although the flash can play a part in the final output as well, e.g. 580ex's white balance compensation.

Quote: Anyway, my understanding for metz flash is that even though you have a SCA adaptor, it is still not a real ETTL system like when a sigma ETTL compitable flash or a speedlite EX series flash. Metz uses the flash own system to calculate the Light Out Put (LOP) base on the pre-flash (using its own sensor to detect the pre-flash). For the sigma & speedlite, it is the camera thats doing the calculation base on the pre-flash (using the camera's sensor to detect the pre-flash). May be those who use Metz flash can chip in their knowledge, pls. Thanks.

I've used a Metz flash (Metz60ct4, 32z1) only in auto mode before. I'm not sure how exactly Metz implements the ETTL mode, but I'm speculating that it's not the case. The flash metering method you described sounds more like a Metz functioning in Auto mode - totally independent of the ETTL metering sensor in the body.

Besides, on an ETTL-II body, the user can choose Evaluative or Average flash metering, which would affect the output significantly in certain situations. If the premise that metering is done by the flash alone is true, then the Metz ETTL mode would not be totally compatible with an ETTL-II body.

[Prismatic]

Originally Posted by imaginary_number For an auto-thyristor flash, that's true. For an ETTL flash, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think so. According to photonotes:

Yups, you are right.... sorry, read the info wrongly previously.
Thanks for the correction.

[imaginary_number]

Originally Posted by mpenza Flash metering has been improved since the D60. The 10D offers better exposure than the D60 which is tied too much to the focus point.

Yup, am aware of that. Apparently, Canon wanted people to avoid using FLR and compose using the AF points instead, which imho wasn't very feasible for the 3-pt AF D60.