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Thread: Discussion on D800, D800E review by Thom Hogan

  1. #1

    Default Discussion on D800, D800E review by Thom Hogan

    Just creating this thread to spare the "Availibility of D800 in Singapore (Part 2)" thread from being overwhelmed by this topic...

    Basically, the point of contention from some posts on that thread was how valid, and to what extent, is Thom's stated belief, that buying the D800 and its boatload of pixels with the intention of paying less attention to initial framing of shots and later on cropping in post to get the composition right, is not a good reason for buying the D800/D800E; that he believes people are better served buying or sticking to the D7000, getting appropriate lenses, and focusing on getting the framing right in the first place while shooting...
    Last edited by theRBK; 11th July 2012 at 12:52 PM. Reason: added link to D800/D800E review

  2. #2

    Default Re: Discussion on D800, D800E review by Thom Hogan

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowseye View Post
    Well, one good counter argument would be wildlife photographer.... They cropped for composition if they don't have enough "safety" for their subjects. (quoted from here)
    or they can get longer lenses that they can afford now because they didn't spend the money on a D800... actually, in a post on July 10, Thom addressed this argument in terms of reach and overall budget, and in terms of composition...

  3. #3

    Default Re: Discussion on D800, D800E review by Thom Hogan

    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    I look at this another way... while owning a D800 does not change my usual practice of framing-it-right for the shot I want, gaining the ability to crop for composition at higher resolution is a side benefit of owning the D800. Another side benefit which I actually value more is the really superior high ISO capability of the D800. I now have no qualm about shooting up to ISO 6400 if necessary or setting the camera to Auto-ISO and trusting it to get me the shots I want most of the time. In the past, I would never shoot at such high ISO or use Auto-ISO as most cameras cannot make it at such high ISO of 6400 or cannot choose the right exposure settings properly under Auto-ISO eg. like setting too low a shutter speed in Auto-ISO mode. I really like it that the D800/D800E uses the simple thumb-of-rule of setting the shutter speed at 1/focal length in its algorithm for determining exposure settings in the Auto-ISO mode. Why many other cameras do not do this in their Auto-ISO modes simply escapes me.
    (quoted from here)
    let me just begin by saying that I don't necessarily agree with Thom nor am I his advocate on the matter; I was just interpreting his review to the person who posted the question to begin with


    that being said, I think your opinion does not disagree with Thom's... he was just saying that people who take the large pixel count as a crutch so that they can have looser emphasis on framing of the shot should not be using this as a reason to get the D800/D800E instead of getting a DX camera and better lenses and focusing more on appropriate framing
    Last edited by theRBK; 11th July 2012 at 12:08 PM. Reason: added original quote origin

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    Default Re: Discussion on D800, D800E review by Thom Hogan

    as for cropping how often to we crop corners ? which would mean that for around 80% of the shots it would be in the area mostly to the center. isnt that where the sweet spot for most lenses and APS-C sensors is and to counter that argument that we may crop corners, would that not tantamount to bad framing ?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Discussion on D800, D800E review by Thom Hogan

    Quote Originally Posted by kane-rulez View Post
    as for cropping how often to we crop corners ? which would mean that for around 80% of the shots it would be in the area mostly to the center. isnt that where the sweet spot for most lenses and APS-C sensors is and to counter that argument that we may crop corners, would that not tantamount to bad framing ?
    if using just the sweet spot of a lens rather than the full expense of the lens, the question would then be why not just get a DX camera then rather than an FX?... composing the full DX frame of a DX camera would make use of the sweet spot, avoid the edges of a lens' full coverage, and save money...

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    Default Re: Discussion on D800, D800E review by Thom Hogan

    Quote Originally Posted by theRBK View Post
    if using just the sweet spot of a lens rather than the full expense of the lens, the question would then be why not just get a DX camera then rather than an FX?... composing the full DX frame of a DX camera would make use of the sweet spot, avoid the edges of a lens' full coverage, and save money...
    precisely what i am getting at :-) so Thom does make a valid comment then. also am not sure about the dx crop mode of FF Camera's is it a mode that is only active when you have a dx lens or is it a way to down sample image at source to lesser pixels even with full frame lenses. as that would mean having fewer pixels than the sensors capability. which would also mean more data being stored ? (this is just a newbie question so don't throw me in the fire for it)
    [Nikon-D7000|Manfrotto 055XPROB, Gitzo 275 BH| Nikon-AF 50 f1.4D| Nikon-SB600]

  7. #7

    Default Re: Discussion on D800, D800E review by Thom Hogan

    Quote Originally Posted by kane-rulez View Post
    precisely what i am getting at :-) so Thom does make a valid comment then. also am not sure about the dx crop mode of FF Camera's is it a mode that is only active when you have a dx lens or is it a way to down sample image at source to lesser pixels even with full frame lenses. as that would mean having fewer pixels than the sensors capability. which would also mean more data being stored ? (this is just a newbie question so don't throw me in the fire for it)
    Actually, review is more of a personal preference and finding of what one has expected of the camera to behave and what expectations they have.

    Just like the D4 review by most, many complained this complained that, but I had no issues. And yes, I do agree with some findings because I also face the same difficulty when using the camera.

    Take the review as a understanding of the camera, and not what the camera is limited at being used for.

    If one enjoys taking 36MP, crops until leaves 1MP, so be it.

    Everybody's mileage varies. The review is just a finding, not the holy grail, no need to be too sticking by it.

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    Default Re: Discussion on D800, D800E review by Thom Hogan

    agreed a review is a personal interpretation of ones outlook about a product. Sometimes its a critical review and sometimes its in context to what that person may be using it for. similar to a car driven by two drivers, car being the constant variable may perform better under driver A, in the end skills and knowledge help getting the best of what you have.

    My curious mind did ask a question though and that not yet answered
    [Nikon-D7000|Manfrotto 055XPROB, Gitzo 275 BH| Nikon-AF 50 f1.4D| Nikon-SB600]

  9. #9

    Default Re: Discussion on D800, D800E review by Thom Hogan

    Quote Originally Posted by kane-rulez View Post
    precisely what i am getting at :-) so Thom does make a valid comment then. also am not sure about the dx crop mode of FF Camera's is it a mode that is only active when you have a dx lens or is it a way to down sample image at source to lesser pixels even with full frame lenses. as that would mean having fewer pixels than the sensors capability. which would also mean more data being stored ? (this is just a newbie question so don't throw me in the fire for it)


    There are a few shooting modes available on FX (D4, as I do not own D800).

    FX
    5:4
    30x20 (DX)
    36x24

    You can set the shooting frame size from the camera, similarly, I've set this setting similar to my D2X, FUNC+DIAL, it will use only the undarken part of the VF to capture the image.

    So for DX, it happens in two ways.

    i. Setting (FUNC+DIAL)
    ii. Mounting a DX lens.

    I only have 1 DX lens - 10.5FE, so I took a test, mounted it and my VF was darkened on the outside to match that of DX frame. Shots taken, were also in DX size.

    The image itself is not downsampled in both cases of shooting in DX mode and/or using DX lens.

  10. #10
    Member kane-rulez's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion on D800, D800E review by Thom Hogan

    Quote Originally Posted by lenslust View Post
    There are a few shooting modes available on FX (D4, as I do not own D800).

    FX
    5:4
    30x20 (DX)
    36x24

    You can set the shooting frame size from the camera, similarly, I've set this setting similar to my D2X, FUNC+DIAL, it will use only the undarken part of the VF to capture the image.

    So for DX, it happens in two ways.

    i. Setting (FUNC+DIAL)
    ii. Mounting a DX lens.

    I only have 1 DX lens - 10.5FE, so I took a test, mounted it and my VF was darkened on the outside to match that of DX frame. Shots taken, were also in DX size.

    The image itself is not downsampled in both cases of shooting in DX mode and/or using DX lens.
    hey lenslust thanks for taking the trouble to explain this. Appreciate it .
    [Nikon-D7000|Manfrotto 055XPROB, Gitzo 275 BH| Nikon-AF 50 f1.4D| Nikon-SB600]

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    Quote Originally Posted by lenslust

    FX
    5:4
    30x20 (DX)
    36x24
    Correction, it should be:

    FX - 36 x 24
    5:4 - 30 x 24
    1.2x - 30 x 20
    DX - 24 x 16
    Equipment: D800|D700|11-16|28-75|105 Micro VR|50 F1.4G|85 F1.8G
    Through the Lens of Cowseye

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    Quote Originally Posted by theRBK
    or they can get longer lenses that they can afford now because they didn't spend the money on a D800... actually, in a post on July 10, Thom addressed this argument in terms of reach and overall budget, and in terms of composition...
    Sorry, I'm mean "safety" distance from the subjects in my own post that u quoted. However, sometimes, even 800mm with 2x TC is still not enough... Hence there's always a limit to how much our lens can reach before we have to crop to get what we need. Able to fully framed ur shot within the entire sensor is good, but if you can't, you can still save enough details from cropped with a high mp camera such as D800.
    Equipment: D800|D700|11-16|28-75|105 Micro VR|50 F1.4G|85 F1.8G
    Through the Lens of Cowseye

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowseye

    Sorry, I'm mean "safety" distance from the subjects in my own post that u quoted. However, sometimes, even 800mm with 2x TC is still not enough... Hence there's always a limit to how much our lens can reach before we have to crop to get what we need. Able to fully framed ur shot within the entire sensor is good, but if you can't, you can still save enough details from cropped with a high mp camera such as D800.
    Well, take a D800, 800mm and 2x, then crop. Thom is saying it is equal to D7000, 800mm and 2x, no crop. Thai people say same same, Malays say sama sama. Why get D800 and crop?

  14. #14

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    Has anyone downloaded Thom's guide to the D800? I am tempted to get it but it's a little costly for a download.

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    Member kane-rulez's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion on D800, D800E review by Thom Hogan

    Quote Originally Posted by banyantree View Post
    Has anyone downloaded Thom's guide to the D800? I am tempted to get it but it's a little costly for a download.
    Support the author, you spent 4488/- on the camera, spending 40$ more for making best use of your investment is a small price to pay.
    or keep reading tips and tricks and experiences of fellow d800 users here on the forum for more real life experiences from them.

    Nikon Canon etc should ask these guys for writing their manuals
    [Nikon-D7000|Manfrotto 055XPROB, Gitzo 275 BH| Nikon-AF 50 f1.4D| Nikon-SB600]

  16. #16

    Default Re: Discussion on D800, D800E review by Thom Hogan

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowseye View Post
    Correction, it should be:

    FX - 36 x 24
    5:4 - 30 x 24
    1.2x - 30 x 20
    DX - 24 x 16
    You're right.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Discussion on D800, D800E review by Thom Hogan

    Quote Originally Posted by diediealsomustdive View Post
    Well, take a D800, 800mm and 2x, then crop. Thom is saying it is equal to D7000, 800mm and 2x, no crop. Thai people say same same, Malays say sama sama. Why get D800 and crop?
    Make sense.. but how about the other way around? What happen if I need wide? I tend to agree to Thom's opinion that yes if you are looking to crop the hell out of D800.. then might not be worth the $$. But if you come from the other side that D800 provides you with the ability to Crop as well as the wide end of a FX.. different story.

    Previously D700 crop is only 5mpx.. which is miserable in today's DSLR standard (btw that is not saying it is not enough). D7000 can give me the same crop image, but can it give me the same wide angle one?
    Nikon D90

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by kane-rulez

    Support the author, you spent 4488/- on the camera, spending 40$ more for making best use of your investment is a small price to pay.
    or keep reading tips and tricks and experiences of fellow d800 users here on the forum for more real life experiences from them.

    Nikon Canon etc should ask these guys for writing their manuals
    I have no problems spending $40 but just wanted to check how user friendly/ worthwhile the manual is. I recently bought the magic lanterns guide for d800e which I thought was terrible. I don't need another Nikon user manual!
    Has anyone downloaded this?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Discussion on D800, D800E review by Thom Hogan

    Quote Originally Posted by banyantree View Post
    I have no problems spending $40 but just wanted to check how user friendly/ worthwhile the manual is. I recently bought the magic lanterns guide for d800e which I thought was terrible. I don't need another Nikon user manual!
    Has anyone downloaded this?
    your right about the magic lantern guide, friend had got the book and felt it to be a waste of money. Sorry have not heard any reviews or anyone having this book. if i hear some thing then ill buzz you. Though 800pages does seem like a Strip-tease of the nikon manual.

    Best is go through http://www.nikondigitutor.com/eng/d800/index.html for the moment. its much better than the manual.
    Last edited by kane-rulez; 12th July 2012 at 01:29 PM.
    [Nikon-D7000|Manfrotto 055XPROB, Gitzo 275 BH| Nikon-AF 50 f1.4D| Nikon-SB600]

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