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Thread: Runaway China scholars

  1. #41

    Default Re: Runaway China scholars

    Quote Originally Posted by Miao View Post
    Just read todays paper, that more place in university for local (pardon me if i interprete wrongly) ..

    But they worry about the standard of the degree graduates if they accept just anyone .. ... So in the end i guess the additonal place may not be for my children in future ..

    I know of so many friends where they have to sent the children aboard for university education, just because our education here accept only the very best .. so end of the day, if you r poor and not the top student .. bad luck, u will be a diplomo or jc level worker .. slogging away .. its so irony that we as a first world country cant provide university education for everyone ..

    We only want the very best, and nothing else .. its stressing everyone out ..
    who says that you can't get a degree if you're a not a top student? look at all the private universities that cater to us.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Runaway China scholars

    Quote Originally Posted by Miao View Post
    .....so end of the day, if you r poor and not the top student .. bad luck, u will be a diplomo or jc level worker .. slogging away .......
    yes face the reality ....if your children (and mine) are not from rich families and not top students , they need to think out of the box to do well .... thats one problem with Asians.... we put too much stock in paper education ..... if you suck in school, so be it ... thats not the end of the world ... REAL education is not just in the classrooms

    we dont need to be like the West where graduates are manning McDonalds counters, petrol stations and 7-11s

    I got family friend sending his children back to Singapore from New Zealand .... to attend courses in ITE hor ...... signing up for courses related to mechanical engineering , laser tooling and business accounting etc etc ..... go back and get accredited back in Auckland and then start their own trade business .... now looking for courses in woodwork and carpentry ...... they dont seem to be whining about needing a quality undergraduate educaiton .... plumbing, home electrical, logistics, swimming pool maintenance and home building seems a whole lot more fun and equally lucrative than being a doctor.
    banker or lawyer
    Last edited by ed9119; 5th July 2012 at 04:40 PM.
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  3. #43

    Default Re: Runaway China scholars

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Now Anderson Junior got 2 places.

    You can apply liao.
    I like your thinking
    Does this mean uncle Sion has out of the box thinking process
    Last edited by hanzohattori; 5th July 2012 at 04:38 PM.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Runaway China scholars

    Quote Originally Posted by hanzohattori View Post
    I like your thinking
    Does this mean uncle Sion has out of the box thinking process
    all this while bro... all this while.

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    Default Re: Runaway China scholars

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien View Post
    Hi Zenten, Hong Sien here :-) Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this man........

    Yes, I also don't understand the hoo-haa about these (non bonded) students running away? Actually I understand lah! This problem comes from the expectations that some have, that if they get a scholarschip they MUST stay and work for the country that gave them the scholarship. But not all scholarships are build like that I guess. If these are really non-bonded (I don't know for sure yet), then there is nothing wrong for them to go away, you can't expect every student to stay in SG, there will always be some who leave, you need to accept that .........and I do smell a little discomfort with China people, that's why the title carries the word 'China' as if SG students don't do it.......

    I can only speak for Holland and Germany, where there are many scholarships given out without bonds too. And most citizens get non-bonded scholarships FREE, and if they need additional they can borrow from the government (and pay back 2 years after graduating from Uni)......the idea behind this is that they want to make Uni studies accessible to everyone regardless your financial background. They do not expect everyone to stay in the country, like me I left Holland for SG to work here as a scientist. Because, their intentions were different...........they just want to give an education to those who deserve it, nothing else behind it.

    In fact, in Germany and Holland there are many scholarships given to foreigners too, and in the past they don't have a bond, the idea is more of like an Aid to that country where they come from. In my yuounger days, these students from Indonesia who studies in Germany didn't have to pay Uni school fees! They only need to pay their own lodging and food. And most of these students went back to Indonesia, but that was mostly because that was the requirement from Germany, they were not supposed to stay, unless they can find a job in Germany.........quite a number did stay when they could find a job there, else many more returned to Indo.

    I have worked with many chinese scientist here too, and many want to stay here and some have become singaporeans. But the life of a scientist is not a stable one, many have to relocate when their project stops, and they are mostly on a 1-3 years contract. From the many overseas students here who were working alongside me, I can only remember 1 student who left for the US many many years ago..............

    So, I wonder how many scholarship students in High schools here do run away? Don't always point to the exception, and make people think it is the rule, I am pretty sure the majority stays in SG........I don't think you can expect 100% to stay, if 5% run away, then 95% still stay here

    And if there is a bond, and they still go away, as long as they pay for the bond, then legally there is also not much wrong. The only wrong they did is that they took away a place for another student who might stay, IF there was a quota on how many students can get a place per year (I don't know about the quota thing for the scholarships here)

    As far as I know locals also can get scholarships (but they have to be good), don't understand why people think locals don't get???? But you have to be good at school lah!

    Lets discuss this as it is, and don't make it a locals vs foreigners thing, SG is already becoming very polarised

    Hong Sien
    Hi Hong Sien

    This post wasn't intended as a dig at FT vs locals.....

    If we belittle this episode then it's merely 2 PRCs who decided to seek greener pastures out of Singapore .... no big deal .... that the Million dollar club gave out some peanuts to 2 monkeys that ran away. Did I just say monkeys .... judging by the fact that the scholars left Singapore even without notifying the college shows the level of integrity or moral ethics they possess ..... guess you could say that they were just monkeying around ....

    But ...have you ever thought about how these foreign scholars were picked and based on what selection criteria? Are all of them deserving of the scholarships that they were granted? What is the real intention or real objective of recruiting these foreign scholars? Aren't our locals good enough and why should they be deprived of such privilege?

    No hoohah intended here.

    Zenten
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  6. #46
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    Default Re: Runaway China scholars

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    I think the concept of a bond is artificial, since the main ethical issue here is always the point that someone else more willing/suitable who would have stayed and not broken any bond/gentleman's agreement had been deprieved.

    Just because someone has a bond to pay back doesn't quite vindicate them, in my book. There are other aspects. Though yes, I agree that if the person's heart is not here, it will be a lose-lose situation.
    a big challenge for those scholarship givers eh? *pokes fun*

    then again, how can the people on scholarship board know? psychometric tests and analysis can only go so far what. there is always this risk involved with bond breakers.

    same as CS BnS. its always a hit and miss one.

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    Default Re: Runaway China scholars

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien View Post
    Hi Zenten, Hong Sien here :-) ..........................................

    ..........Hong Sien
    Hong Sien, long post. Please summarise in 30 words. Nowadays people's attention span is for a 10 second sound bite on TV.

    Talking about TV, just saw news that Amsterdam is closing its world famous red light district.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 5th July 2012 at 09:47 PM.

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    Default Re: Runaway China scholars

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    Hong Sien, long post. Please summarise in 30 words. Nowadays people's attention span is for a 10 second sound bite on TV.

    Talking about TV, just saw news that Amsterdam is closing its world famous red light district.
    If I summarize in 30 words, people may misunderstand :-) If A'dam closes its red light district, the tourists will stop coming, other than for the drugs..........and where must I work if they close it?

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Runaway China scholars

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien View Post
    If I summarize in 30 words, people may misunderstand :-) If A'dam closes its red light district, the tourists will stop coming, other than for the drugs..........and where must I work if they close it?
    being able to be succinct is a skill. don't blame on being misunderstood.

    So, I wonder how many scholarship students in High schools here do run away? Don't always point to the exception, and make people think it is the rule, I am pretty sure the majority stays in SG........I don't think you can expect 100% to stay, if 5% run away, then 95% still stay here

    And if there is a bond, and they still go away, as long as they pay for the bond, then legally there is also not much wrong. The only wrong they did is that they took away a place for another student who might stay, IF there was a quota on how many students can get a place per year (I don't know about the quota thing for the scholarships here)

    As far as I know locals also can get scholarships (but they have to be good), don't understand why people think locals don't get???? But you have to be good at school lah!

    Lets discuss this as it is, and don't make it a locals vs foreigners thing, SG is already becoming very polarised
    this is your main gist.

    now here are your main points:

    1: the runaways are anomalies. don't overgeneralise.
    2: so long as bond is paid, either via bond, or the legal payments when breaking the bond, there is no loss on the scholarship provider's side.
    3: scholarships are all available for everyone. if singaporeans are good enough, they can get it.

    i will hesitate to agree with 1. i don't have any hard figures on total bond breakers, by nationality. i will say its too early to decide.

    2: i disagree. u forgot 1 more element: time. when a scholarship is given, essentially time and money which otherwise will be given to another scholar, is now lost/wasted. scholarships are actually investment on human resources to support and develop the company of the provider. add in that cost, perhaps the penalties needs to be harsher. how many scholarship cycles can you afford to waste really?

    3: this one, i'm not too sure, because i can't name any. but i will hazard a guess that there are scholarships provided only for overseas scholars. i'll raise the example of RVHS Li-Ning badminton scholarship. i know that RVHS provides this scholarship for students from china and malaysia. i don't recall singapore yet. it might be because they haven't done it, or they haven't announced, or i was unaware. but i won't rule out the possibility of only foreigners allowed scholarship. most of the time, there are pretty good reasons for this, such as economical, socio-political reasons.

    anyways the argument for singaporeans need to work hard, does not apply. I myself, still have no university offer (as of now) from NUS, even after i applied. Sometimes, results, portfolio is not everything, even if you have. sometimes chances are not given due to... other unforseen reasons such as medical. then this group of people how? scholarship everything also can't get. also jialat no?
    Last edited by allenleonhart; 5th July 2012 at 10:53 PM.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Runaway China scholars

    For those who have had the opportunity to study overseas...just to ask, does the University Administration really care that its students were bond breaker who fled rather then openly stating what they wanted to do at their previous school?

    Since MOE, MFA or even the Uni itself dont seem to be giving a hoot these cases will always be happening one. To them maybe small case but to those failed scholarship applicants, this is a backstab as it means empty seats till next intake.
    Last edited by Reportage; 5th July 2012 at 10:59 PM.
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  11. #51
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    Default Re: Runaway China scholars

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    being able to be succinct is a skill. don't blame on being misunderstood.

    3: this one, i'm not too sure, because i can't name any. but i will hazard a guess that there are scholarships provided only for overseas scholars. i'll raise the example of RVHS Li-Ning badminton scholarship. i know that RVHS provides this scholarship for students from china and malaysia. i don't recall singapore yet. it might be because they haven't done it, or they haven't announced, or i was unaware. but i won't rule out the possibility of only foreigners allowed scholarship. most of the time, there are pretty good reasons for this, such as economical, socio-political reasons.

    anyways the argument for singaporeans need to work hard, does not apply. I myself, still have no university offer (as of now) from NUS, even after i applied. Sometimes, results, portfolio is not everything, even if you have. sometimes chances are not given due to... other unforseen reasons such as medical. then this group of people how? scholarship everything also can't get. also jialat no?
    Sometime the scholarship sponsor will specify some criteria such as nationality in the application form, only for country A etc, depending on the sponsor. For example, ASEAN scholarship in local u only for ASEAN students. Some other scholarship I saw during school time only for local (mostly given by ministries), for Muslim students (donor is Mendaki), and some specific countries' student because the donors are from those countries.

    Luck play a part too in enrollment and scholarship
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    Default Re: Runaway China scholars

    It is not as though China is poverty stricken and needs Singapore to give scholarships to its PRC citizens. China is super mega rich. They have much more money than tiny Singapore. What do we think we are doing, giving scholarships to PRC students? We don't know our (lowly) place in the world.
    The word "scholarship" implies that the student is from poor background and needs financial help to complete studies.

  13. #53

    Default Re: Runaway China scholars

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    Hong Sien, long post. Please summarise in 30 words. Nowadays people's attention span is for a 10 second sound bite on TV.Talking about TV, just saw news that Amsterdam is closing its world famous red light district.
    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien View Post
    If I summarize in 30 words, people may misunderstand :-) If A'dam closes its red light district, the tourists will stop coming, other than for the drugs..........a nd where must I work if they close it?
    ya too long he means good samaritan in Europe. We are also good samaritan in SEA. This thread too many moderators participating, very danger

  14. #54

    Default Re: Runaway China scholars

    Quote Originally Posted by dreaming View Post
    ya too long he means good samaritan in Europe. We are also good samaritan in SEA. This thread too many moderators participating, very danger
    yup... dangerous. soon others will run off to other forums because they think that there's no justice here

  15. #55

    Default Re: Runaway China scholars

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    It is not as though China is poverty stricken and needs Singapore to give scholarships to its PRC citizens. China is super mega rich. They have much more money than tiny Singapore. What do we think we are doing, giving scholarships to PRC students? We don't know our (lowly) place in the world.
    The word "scholarship" implies that the student is from poor background and needs financial help to complete studies.
    Could be some backroom dealing that SG needs to sponsor these students if SG wants to do business in China. Is Singapore prepared for a situation where China becomes pissed and imposes sanctions or even cut off access?
    You wont see me much less remember me but i am the guy who makes you look good.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Runaway China scholars

    To be subjective AND 2 main group

    What piss ppl off are:
    Why scholarship is given out freely without any bond
    why singaporean take up rate is low
    what is the accountability of tax payer money
    why Singaporean are punished for breaking bond and stigmatise as bond breaker


    To those whom advocate it:
    Free education for ppl to improve themselves to benefit the whole damn world
    Free lunch for all who has above average IQ
    Free will and free world to stay and support the economy

  17. #57

    Default Re: Runaway China scholars

    perhaps this can give more fuel for discussion:

    Undergraduate Fees - Registrar's Office - National University of Singapore

    Diary of A Singaporean Mind: News: Singaporeans to get priority in P1 balloting

    also my take:

    why let a small percentage of the large pie bother you so much? if Singaporeans hate other nationalities so much, why not just stage a civilian coup and overthrow the government? then impose martial law and turn this nation into another North Korea? in fact, all countries around the world are experiencing this too. why not just close all borders and restrict travel and tourism?

    there is a deeper story to why all countries allow other nations to study/travel within. if you can only think of hate, and all you live is hate, and hate is all you know... then you'll never understand the full meaning of it all.


  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309
    perhaps this can give more fuel for discussion:

    Undergraduate Fees - Registrar's Office - National University of Singapore

    Diary of A Singaporean Mind: News: Singaporeans to get priority in P1 balloting

    also my take:

    why let a small percentage of the large pie bother you so much? if Singaporeans hate other nationalities so much, why not just stage a civilian coup and overthrow the government? then impose martial law and turn this nation into another North Korea? in fact, all countries around the world are experiencing this too. why not just close all borders and restrict travel and tourism?

    there is a deeper story to why all countries allow other nations to study/travel within. if you can only think of hate, and all you live is hate, and hate is all you know... then you'll never understand the full meaning of it all.

    Hear! Hear!

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    Default Re: Runaway China scholars

    i lub you. you lub me....

    we are one big family is what Barney (not me but the purple dinosaur) teach me.

  20. #60
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BarneyChihan
    i lub you. you lub me....

    we are one big family is what Barney (not me but the purple dinosaur) teach me.
    I wuv you. You wuv me.
    Let's go out and kill Barney.
    With a shotgun, bang bang!
    Barney's on the floor
    No more stupid dinosaur.

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