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Thread: Turkey still using Phantom

  1. #1
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    Default Turkey still using Phantom

    Turkey to Do What is Required, 23 June 2012 Saturday 13:9

    This is Vietnam war 1960s vintage jet. Still got countries using them. Turkey has about 216 newer F16 jets.

    Not a good idea for Syria to shoot the Phantom down. Syria enjoying its honeymoon period now, until after 6 Nov 2012. Then it is "the end".
    Last edited by ricohflex; 25th June 2012 at 01:56 AM.

  2. #2
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkey still using Phantom

    I believe USA, UK, Japan, West Germany, South Korea, Greece, Iran, Israel, Spain & Turkey is also using... maybe not as frontline jets...

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  3. #3

    Default Re: Turkey still using Phantom

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    I believe USA, UK, Japan, West Germany, South Korea, Greece, Iran, Israel, Spain & Turkey is also using... maybe not as frontline jets...
    No more West Germany... And they used Typhoons, but were on of the biggest F4 customers. They donated most of them to Turkey and Greece though.
    Last edited by Rashkae; 25th June 2012 at 01:39 PM.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Turkey still using Phantom

    It was supposedly on 'training' so maybe its a training jet.

    Its still a viable aircraft against most of the potential opponents in the region other than Israel.

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    Senior Member Big Kahuna's Avatar
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    Watch to much True Lies

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    Default Re: Turkey still using Phantom

    it's an unarmed recce version, RF-4... still in use in a number of countries... that's why it was flying close to the border in the first place...

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    Default Re: Turkey still using Phantom

    Reconnaissance roles are usually regulated to older models of fighter planes. The Turkey airforce is quite modern actually, using F-16s as their main multirole fighter, whilst supported by F-4E IIs (being upgraded). Even our own RSAF SQ 149 operates F-15s in tandem with F-5S, and our recon planes used to be the RF-5S before being phased out due to UAV technology. Turkey being a larger nation still operates a large pool of RF-4Es, supported by a number of UAVs and even satellite imagery. The decision to launch a (outdated) recon plane can be due to many reasons. A command decision and/or a political decision, it is not immediately clear since questions over its true mission are still unanswered, though reasons I can think of to use one are:

    - visual presence of a plane as opposed to the covert nature of UAVs.
    - time sensitive, information is requested now and not later. To send a (cheaper & less expensive/shorter range) UAV means deploying a team to the border, as well as ensuring security & logistics.
    - routine flight, just because only one was shot down does not mean there weren't others. Since war is not on the cards, there is no need to maintain a continuous surveillance of border movements using UAVs, nor the requirement to task satellites.
    - whilst lost of life is regretted, pilots are trained to be sent into dangerous situations and just because it will be safer to deploy a UAV, does not mean this is so. The Recon SQ exists for a reason and it was a command decision to use them.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/27/wo...pagewanted=all
    List of active Turkish military aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    144 Squadron, Republic of Singapore Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    149 Squadron, Republic of Singapore Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by foxtwo; 28th June 2012 at 12:46 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Turkey still using Phantom

    Quote Originally Posted by foxtwo View Post
    The decision to launch a (outdated) recon plane can be due to many reasons.
    Well, let's not forget... Turkey's F4's are upgraded/modenized models with the latest electronic and surveillance packages. The F4 is still an excellent interceptor and is easy to maintain. I'm sure many of our neighbors in Asia would cut off an arm just to have 100 upgraded F4s.
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    Default Re: Turkey still using Phantom

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    Well, let's not forget... Turkey's F4's are upgraded/modenized models with the latest electronic and surveillance packages. The F4 is still an excellent interceptor and is easy to maintain. I'm sure many of our neighbors in Asia would cut off an arm just to have 100 upgraded F4s.
    I don't really agree with that. The modern fighter plane is all about maneuverability (not mentioning next gen which is maneuver and stealth) and the F-4 characteristics no matter how much upgraded does not change the fact is remains a power fighter and not an angles fighter. Smart tactics, pilot skills, weaponry and ROEs will decide the rest.

    Maybe suited for multi or bomber roles; interceptor and air superiority seems a stretch in today's age.

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    Default Re: Turkey still using Phantom

    It all boils down to budget and intent. If Turkey has decided to retain the F4, it means either:
    1) They can't afford or risk a more modern and expensive plane, lest it gets shot down.
    2) They simply didn't anticipate a threat to the F4 from Syria.

    It's the same as buying a camera, it's alway nice to have a FF, but if you can't afford one, or don't really need one, you probably won't buy it.

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    Default Re: Turkey still using Phantom

    Not fair to the pilot and navigator. They were sent as bait to be killed. The stupid Syrians bit the bait. Now Turkey and Nato has a ready made excuse to invade Syria anytime they want to. And also a good excuse to build up military might along the border with Syria, so that Turkey can strike fast.



    Turkish Tanks Deploy to Syrian Border -- 26.06.12

    Turkey sends rocket launchers to Syrian border
    Last edited by ricohflex; 28th June 2012 at 10:04 PM.

  12. #12
    Member lotus80's Avatar
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    Turkey on a phantom still sound futuristic :-D

    I m non political though.

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    Senior Member Big Kahuna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkey still using Phantom

    Turkey being a NATO member....I bet nothing will happen

  14. #14

    Default Re: Turkey still using Phantom

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    Not fair to the pilot and navigator. They were sent as bait to be killed. The stupid Syrians bit the bait. Now Turkey and Nato has a ready made excuse to invade Syria anytime they want to. And also a good excuse to build up military might along the border with Syria, so that Turkey can strike fast.
    Well.. a soldiers job is not to think, but to do what his superior ask of him.

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    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    As any photographer knows: it is not the gear, it is the person behind the gear that makes the difference.

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    Member lotus80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai
    As any photographer knows: it is not the gear, it is the person behind the gear that makes the difference.
    Not in today's world with advanced equipment uncle fai :-)
    Person will die if plane not advanced than enemy's.

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    Default Re: Turkey still using Phantom

    Fictional dogfight.
    Plane A : USA made 1941 Brewster Buffalo ever deployed stationed in Singapore in the past. Armed with machine guns.
    Pilot A: Best pilot of top gun school. Pilot skills ranking 95 out of 100.


    Plane B : USA made F15 - Eagle armed with missiles and gun.
    Pilot B: Worst pilot of top gun school. Pilot skills ranking 50 out of 100.
    Weapons System Officer B: Worst of his class. Skills ranking 50 out of 100.





    According to the theory that it is the man behind the equipment and not the equipment, Pilot A should win the dogfight.

    If you insist, we won't argue with you.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 30th June 2012 at 09:04 AM.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Turkey still using Phantom

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    Fictional dogfight.
    Plane A : USA made 1941 Brewster Buffalo ever deployed stationed in Singapore in the past. Armed with machine guns.
    Pilot A: Best pilot of top gun school. Pilot skills ranking 95 out of 100.

    Plane B : USA made F15 - Eagle armed with missiles and gun.
    Pilot B: Worst pilot of top gun school. Pilot skills ranking 50 out of 100.
    Weapons System Officer B: Worst of his class. Skills ranking 50 out of 100.

    According to the theory that it is the man behind the equipment and not the equipment, Pilot A should win the dogfight.
    You didn't state the conditions, time & terrain of the fight. Hence I'll rule in favour of the Pilot A since he being more skilled will know how to milk every opportunity to his advantage.

    1. Mid day sun. Day time when it's the hottest, and to negate enemy from hiding in the sun.
    2. over Jungle. Heat reflected off the jungle to negate IR missile lock.
    3. Mountainous terrain. Have ridges and canyons to hide in or break radar/missile lock.
    4. Clear sky. No clouds to hide in.

    Tactics:

    1. Stay low. Employ Nap of Earth flying to minimise radar lock and hide from opponent.
    2. Stay slow. The only real advantage, which will cause opponent to overshoot or slow down enough to get a shot off.

    Pilot A has little to no chance of actually claiming a kill on Pilot B, and an overall low chance of getting out alive. His best and only hopeful outcome is by continuing to frustrate his opponent and cause him to leave (bingo fuel/weapons). This looks like a draw but actually a win for P.A and lose for P.B.

    Unless Pilot B is really so dumb as to fight in Pilot A's rules, then he may make the mistake of either gifting a free shot or ramming himself into the terrain so P.A will win the fight by default.
    Last edited by foxtwo; 30th June 2012 at 02:12 PM.

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