To Epson R210 Users: Common Printing Problem...

[Stereobox]

ok, this must be one of the top ten most frequently asked questions... why don't my prints match up to the colors on the monitor?

even after i have soft-proofed the pictures in Photoshop, the colors turn out wrong. i'm suppose to get a warm cast, but instead ended up with a greenish cast.. not to mention that overall brightness seemed to be reduced by 1-2 stops.

before you start -ing me, rest assured i have already done reading up regarding this issue, but still the problem persists. after countless tons of photo paper and ink wastage ( ), i decided to seek help here.

here's my setup:

1)Acer laptop running Windows XP & Photoshop CS, LCD monitor calibrated with Pantone ColorPlus

2) Epson Stylus Photo R210 using Konica Premium Photo Glossy media

i know some of the stuff i'm using isn't really professional grade, so i don't expect 100% color accuracy .. but still, the colors should somehow still look similar ya?

let me share with you my printing workflow, step by step, to help you determine where i have gone wrong.

1) Open up picture embedded with sRGB profile
2) Make all the necessary adjustments to picture
3) Soft-proofed using Epson R210 premium glossy profile. using a different paper brand, and soft-proof shows very minute warm cast..but that's fine by me.
4) Clicked "Print with Preview"

5) Under Color Management tab:
Source Space> Document = sRGB, Proof = R210 Premium Glossy

Print Space> Profile = printer color management

6) Clicked "OK" , and that brought me to the R210 own print management driver

7) Clicked on "Properties" , Paper options set to appropriate settings, then i clickd on "Advance"

8) Under Color Management, Selected "ICM" ... "no color adjustment" box is left unchecked

9) "High Speed, grayscale, edge smoothing, print preview" boxes all left unticked. then clicked "OK" to print.

10) warm look in original monitor pic turned into ugly green cast in print

did i do something wrong somewhere? or is it a hardware problem? (problem with monitor calibration device/printer?)

[espn]

Here's my setup:

1) Windows 2000 SP4, PS, Nikon Capture 4.1.2, Nikon View 6.2.3, LCD calibrated with Eyeone Display

2) Epson Stylus Photo R210, Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper 4R, Epson Dura-Brite A4, Epson Matte-Heavyweight A4.


My workflow for the images:

1) Nikon Capture -> Color Management (set to Monitor's profile after calibration)
2) Process Image, export to PS (PS set to use Monitor's profile also)
3) Save JPG
4) Nikon View -> Print
5) Set to Borderless, select A4/4R size, select ICM in advanced tab, select Photo quality option in basic.
6) Print


My first and last images come out fine, colors are as seen on screen, the rest of the images? Never got the printer to print anymore after my first A4 and last 4R... sigh, read my problem here.

[Stereobox]

thanks for sharing, espn. sorry to hear about the problem you are having with your printer as well. it's always to see all your hard work go down the drain..right at the very end.

i followed your workflow, but i still end up with a very greenish cast, especially on skin tones.

anyway, from what i understand, it is not advised to use your monitor profile as your color work space? it is a profile to tell the monitor how it should display certain colors...not really a definition of color gamut? that's how i understand it.

[ckiang]

If I am not wrong, in the printer driver, you should be selecting "No colour management" instead of ICM. Otherwise PS is doing the conversion, and the printer driver is doing yet another conversion, which probably result in the problem you face.

Regards
CK

[billkoh]

under no 8), select no color management, cos this will have an effect of double conversion.
you have already select r10 profile earlier.

[Stereobox]

Ok, as advised, i have adjusted 8) in my workflow, which is to turn off Color Management in my printer driver.

i have tried it before, n it's the same this time around as well. the print turn out to be about 1.5 - 2 stops darker than usual! its like someone using the Brightness/Contrast tool in Photoshop and just pulling it to the left halfway. and i think the green is still there.

is there a way to check if there's something wrong physically or electronically with my printer, which causes the green cast?

[Neo]

Why dun you go to the Epson showroom and ask for a print of the same image on their R210? Then you'd know if the problem is perculiar to your printer or that the problem occurs with all the same Epson model.

[Stereobox]

good idea. but before i do that, you just reminded me of something ... call their tech support, haha!

i doubt they can help much (you know la, tech support) .. but i'll try anyway.

will share with you guys if something new comes up. anyway, do suggest more solutions in the meantime .. if any. thanks!

[Zerstorer]

Green/yellow cast and dark means that there is no profile being applied. Pinkish cast+overly bright is when there is double application of profiles.

Download updated R210 paper profiles from epson australia site and set to ICM + No colour management. You should the results you desire.

[Zerstorer]

This is my setup when I was using Ilford Paper profiles, you should download and use the epson profiles for premium glossy as they now work better and have a wider gamut.

[Zerstorer]

Previous thread and discussion:
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=101383

[Stereobox]

i *think* i might have found the culprit... 3rd party photo paper!

on advice from other forums, i changed paper type to original Epson Photo Quality Inkjet paper and assigned the appropriate profile, turned off the printer driver's color management, and tested again. *bingo~* works like a charm!

i didn't know paper type can really really make such a great difference!

anyway, this time, i changed my step 5) Print Space> Profile = printer color management to Print Space> Profile = Same as Source (sRGB)

what is the difference between the two?

thanks for all the kind advice guys

[Nikonian Foo]

Issit possible to create our own profile for third party paper like ilford, kodak or some chapalang made-in-china photo paper for epson r210? anyway, can you please direct me to the forums that have information about calibration of screen-to-print stuff? Any help would be appreciated! Cheers!

[ckiang]

You need to get a Printer profiling software like the Colourvision PrintFix.

Regards
CK

[Stereobox]

nikonian foo > customised printer/paper profiling is available, but the costs are not going to be cheap!

for a starter in color management, you can read up at http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps8-colour/ps8_1.htm and http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps7..._print_mac.htm . there are many other good and intensive tutorials on the topic online, but i find this relatively easy to understand.

i will sharing with you my (corrected) printing workflow later, specific to my equipment and software.

good luck!

[Stereobox]

OT abit...

actually....not say i say what ... but the 3rd party paper that was causing all the color problem was sold to me by one of the Cathay staff, by the very same salesperson who sold me the ColorVision Spyder, from the Printer side no less!

and i thought they are supposed to give advice, not push the sales just because it was on offer. now i know better than to get cheap 3rd party photo paper.

[ckiang]

Originally Posted by Stereobox OT abit... actually....not say i say what ... but the 3rd party paper that was causing all the color problem was sold to me by one of the Cathay staff, by the very same salesperson who sold me the ColorVision Spyder, from the Printer side no less! and i thought they are supposed to give advice, not push the sales just because it was on offer. now i know better than to get cheap 3rd party photo paper.

Well, you used the Epson profile on Konica paper, that's why. You might want to try printing without colour management from PhotoShop, (i.e. same as source). In the printer driver select "Colour Controls" and leave the printer to do it for you. It might just look better.

Never use a profile which is not the same as the paper/ink combination you are using.

Regards
CK

[Stereobox]

ok, here's sharing my new *revised* printing workflow using Photoshop CS color management tools. please note that this is specific to my hardware and software, and my personal printing needs. feel free to reference.


1) Open up picture embedded with sRGB profile
2) Make all the necessary adjustments to picture
3) Soft-proofed using Epson R210 profile for paper+printer+ink combination. (downloaded from epson australia website. i've forgotten the link, but PM me, and i will send you the profiles.) clicked 'gamut warning' to check if there are any unprintable colors.
4) Clicked "Print with Preview"

5) Under Color Management tab:
under "Source Space", i selected Document (sRGB). cos i know most desktop inkjet printers are designed to work n interpret sRGB anyway.

Print Space> Profile = printer color management. in other words, i'm embedding the sRGB profile together with my image, n send them to the printer. from there, the printer will do its own color management based on the info i embedded.

6) Clicked "OK" , and that brought me to the R210 own print management driver

7) Clicked on "Properties" , then "Advance"

8) Under Color Management, Selected "ICM" ... "no color adjustment" box is left unchecked. (that means, i'm ENABLING the printer driver to do its own color management...remember, i attached the sRGB profile earlier on)

9) Selected the appropriate paper type (very, VERY important here!) "High Speed, grayscale, edge smoothing, print preview" boxes leave it up to your own preferences. then clicked "OK" to print.

10) hopefully, prints should match relatively close to your monitor (close, but definitely not 100%..maybe 80-90% good enough for me)



in step 5) ... there are several alternatives, and the choices you make are very specific to your needs. for me, since i don't have an accurately profiled printer profile .. (only the generic one downloaded from epson website) ... i rather let CS handover the color management to the printer to sort it out (i did several tests...epson r210 did a reasonable job of interpreting sRGB)


hope this helps. cheers

[Stereobox]

Originally Posted by ckiang Well, you used the Epson profile on Konica paper, that's why. You might want to try printing without colour management from PhotoShop, (i.e. same as source). In the printer driver select "Colour Controls" and leave the printer to do it for you. It might just look better.

yup, i did that during one of my failed test attempts. color is not *as* bad, but still wrong.

Originally Posted by ckiang Never use a profile which is not the same as the paper/ink combination you are using.

ya man, that i strongly agree with you. lesson learnt, lol

[Zerstorer]

I get better results on mine by letting the printing program handle all colour management tasks by checking "No colour adjustment".

If your colour management workflow is properly setup, there shouldn't be any tangible differences in printing from any colourspace(i.e not restricted to sRGB....any colourspace) as long as it is within the printer's gamut. Even when its not, the correct rendering intent will often do the job nicely.