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Thread: are we grateful?

  1. #61
    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: are we grateful?

    Quote Originally Posted by An drew View Post
    Unfortunately for me, both my parents' and my property are not freehold or 999 years. They will not even be sufficent to last the life-span of my kids. Perhaps HDB should change their lease to 199 years.
    look for a property consultant to advise you how to 'roll' your property ....
    shaddap and just shoot .... up close
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  2. #62

    Default Re: are we grateful?

    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119 View Post
    look for a property consultant to advise you how to 'roll' your property ....
    Thanks for your advice

  3. #63
    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: are we grateful?

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    Owning your parents property would be unlikely... as most aging parent would likely sell and downgrade their property after children have their own families.. and use the money for retirement. Or at least that's what I plan to do...
    downgrade a property is still a property le
    shaddap and just shoot .... up close
    Walkeast

  4. #64

    Default Re: are we grateful?

    Quote Originally Posted by An drew View Post
    Thanks for your advice
    Let me introduce myself...

  5. #65
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: are we grateful?

    Quote Originally Posted by An drew View Post
    About 8 years ago I audited a HDB project and was surprised to find that it only cost HDB 20k to build each flat. The prices of things depends on many factors, one of which is how much money that the buyer can raise and also supply and demand. So if you put more money into the buyers' hands in terms of loans or CPF etc, the price will just go up. How much do you think HDB will value and sell flats if every Singaporean can borrow a few million bucks from banks or draw from their CPF?
    Based on your logic, then best to keep everyone's pay low. Instead of the minimum wage scheme that people are pushing, you should have maximum wage scheme and make sure that all earnings above a certain amount become taxes automatically. This way, HDB flats will be dirt cheap since no one has any money to buy it and demand will fall like a stone. But does it make people happier or better off? Doubt so. You are addressing a dead number with your logic.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos-

    Based on your logic, then best to keep everyone's pay low. Instead of the minimum wage scheme that people are pushing, you should have maximum wage scheme and make sure that all earnings above a certain amount become taxes automatically. This way, HDB flats will be dirt cheap since no one has any money to buy it and demand will fall like a stone. But does it make people happier or better off? Doubt so. You are addressing a dead number with your logic.
    I think Andrew has a point there. Basically its an instrument for the gov to absorb excess liquidity in the market. The method you are proposing is to curb demand, at the expense of productivity cos no one will be motivated to work hard. Cmon..I thought your major is econ?

  7. #67

    Default Re: are we grateful?

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    Based on your logic, then best to keep everyone's pay low. Instead of the minimum wage scheme that people are pushing, you should have maximum wage scheme and make sure that all earnings above a certain amount become taxes automatically. This way, HDB flats will be dirt cheap since no one has any money to buy it and demand will fall like a stone. But does it make people happier or better off? Doubt so. You are addressing a dead number with your logic.
    My point is that taping into savings funds and high borrowings is not necessarily good. It is bad for consumers and causes global financial crises and benefits only select interest groups. And on the contrary, I hope people's earnings are sufficiently high so they can genuinely afford what they want and need.

  8. #68
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: are we grateful?

    Quote Originally Posted by hanzohattori View Post
    I think Andrew has a point there. Basically its an instrument for the gov to absorb excess liquidity in the market. The method you are proposing is to curb demand, at the expense of productivity cos no one will be motivated to work hard. Cmon..I thought your major is econ?
    How does CPF absorb excess liquidity in the housing market, if it (the CPF) can be used for housing? Please elaborate instead of throwing terms in the air so that there is no room for doubt as to what you mean.

    Andrew started off by proclaiming that CPF was a tool that made the housing market overfired:

    It is because they allow you to use your CPF for housing that housing prices can rise correspondingly. This money too you do not see unless you suddenly don't need housing. If the government allow us to use CPF for COE and the price of COE then rise to 200k is that helping us?
    I asked him what he meant, and he replied:

    The prices of things depends on many factors, one of which is how much money that the buyer can raise and also supply and demand. So if you put more money into the buyers' hands in terms of loans or CPF etc, the price will just go up. How much do you think HDB will value and sell flats if every Singaporean can borrow a few million bucks from banks or draw from their CPF?
    I am still trying to understand how the second post leads to the first. Yes, definitely demand will go up when people have the means, but removal of the CPF and placing that as cash in people's hands ONLY leads to the scenario he describes if people do not have demand for houses. That seems to assume rather erroneously that the demand for houses today depends heavily on the presence of the CPF. Or perhaps you can explain what you think he means in another way?

    I would like to stress that the method I proposed in my last post, if you HAD bothered to read it properly, was deliberately ludicrous and isn't something that I propose any government should adopt. Or did you miss "based on your (Andrew) logic"?
    Last edited by edutilos-; 15th June 2012 at 09:39 PM.

  9. #69
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: are we grateful?

    Quote Originally Posted by An drew View Post
    My point is that taping into savings funds and high borrowings is not necessarily good. It is bad for consumers and causes global financial crises and benefits only select interest groups. And on the contrary, I hope people's earnings are sufficiently high so they can genuinely afford what they want and need.
    I am not really sure what you mean right now.

    What is the alternative that you are proposing? A world without CPF? Not allowing people to use CPF after their first house? Raise borrowing interest rates? How does that link back to your claim that the use of CPF for housing causes housing prices to rise?

  10. #70

    Default Re: are we grateful?

    Sorry if my comment was unclear
    I only commented on his statement that the HDB is priced way above the cost, and not really addressing the CPF issue.
    But what I think andrew was trying to say is.. to counter the effect of extra money floating around (from CPF or otherwise) that can be used for speculative purpose, HDB is pricing the unit above its cost. But clearly that wasn't enough either, recently they came up with extra ownership rules, and even extra stamp duty.

    I think CPF is a good thing, in a sense that it will force people to save for the future, otherwise the money will be used to buy the latest toys
    But it can be abused if the person is too sophisticated... well.. its a free market anyway.. so its legal..

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    How does CPF absorb excess liquidity in the housing market, if it (the CPF) can be used for housing? Please elaborate instead of throwing terms in the air so that there is no room for doubt as to what you mean.

    Andrew started off by proclaiming that CPF was a tool that made the housing market overfired:

    I asked him what he meant, and he replied:

    I am still trying to understand how the second post leads to the first. Yes, definitely demand will go up when people have the means, but removal of the CPF and placing that as cash in people's hands ONLY leads to the scenario he describes if people do not have demand for houses. That seems to assume rather erroneously that the demand for houses today depends heavily on the presence of the CPF. Or perhaps you can explain what you think he means in another way?

    I would like to stress that the method I proposed in my last post, if you HAD bothered to read it properly, was deliberately ludicrous and isn't something that I propose any government should adopt. Or did you miss "based on your (Andrew) logic"?

  11. #71

    Default Re: are we grateful?

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    I am not really sure what you mean right now.
    Ha ha. Take it easy. We don't have to understand each other perfectly. We are just having fun and passing candid comments. Certainly not espousing any economic theories or prescribing any solutions to intractable problems. Am just trying to make some complaints in the spirit of this thread.

  12. #72
    Member betta01's Avatar
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    Default Re: are we grateful?

    Latest news from where I am living now:

    1.Police and army personals gang up to commit robbery and theft plus internal discord within police service leading to arrest of police personal.
    2.Police and army physical fight due to different political believe
    3.Economy on the blink of bankruptcy and yet politician does nothing but continue to enrich their own wealth

    Anyone plan on leaving Singapore and settling here?

    I am glad that end of the day, I have Singapore to go back too!
    Last edited by betta01; 16th June 2012 at 12:58 AM.
    Mine full name-Betta Macrostoma
    Can call me Betta.

  13. #73
    Member fmeeran's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by betta01
    Latest news from where I am living now:

    1.Police and army personals gang up to commit robbery and theft plus internal discord within police service leading to arrest of police personal.
    2.Police and army physical fight due to different political believe
    3.Economy on the blink of bankruptcy and yet politician does nothing but continue to enrich their own wealth

    Anyone plan on leaving Singapore and settling here?
    Remove the army from there and it sounds like my country, the world's largest democracy.
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  14. #74
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: are we grateful?

    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119 View Post
    downgrade a property is still a property le

    No if the new property is rental....

    Since I won't live more than another 10-20 years after retirement anyway.... no point buying that property.

    Scuba & Father... For Life

  15. #75
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc

    No if the new property is rental....

    Since I won't live more than another 10-20 years after retirement anyway.... no point buying that property.
    Born didn't bring here, die wont bring away.

  16. #76
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: are we grateful?

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    Born didn't bring here, die wont bring away.

    Which is why I 'plan' to sell my unit after retirement and live in rented property... until either the $$$ is used up... or I'm dead... whichever comes 1st

    Scuba & Father... For Life

  17. #77
    Member Marcus7's Avatar
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    Default Re: are we grateful?

    Too many FT here lah,creating lots of social problems.As Singaporeans,we should be grateful & remain humble.

  18. #78
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc

    Which is why I 'plan' to sell my unit after retirement and live in rented property... until either the $$$ is used up... or I'm dead... whichever comes 1st
    You know what they say about the two tragedy in life right:

    Tragedy 1: you die before you used up all your funds.

    Tragedy 2: you exhausted your fund before you die.

  19. #79

    Default Re: are we grateful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus7 View Post
    Too many FT here lah,creating lots of social problems.As Singaporeans,we should be grateful & remain humble.
    i did not start this thread to promote hate or racism. watch your language

  20. #80
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    Default Re: are we grateful?

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    Which is why I 'plan' to sell my unit after retirement and live in rented property... until either the $$$ is used up... or I'm dead... whichever comes 1st
    Unless you own a private property, this is the way to plan. HDB only allows your children to "take over" your HDB flat if your children do not own another HDB flat, and if they had sold their previous HDB flat and did not pay the levy at that time, they have to pay the levy + interest before taking over your flat, the rules of buying and selling still applies.

    So in Sg, unless it is a private property or your children do not own another HDB flat, there's no such thing as "passing down the family home to the next gen"
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

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