Help on close up shoot using FZ20

wiki · 11th January 2005

hi guys,

took the following pictures in macro mode. my picture does not seem to be sharp and detailed. what goes wrong? i have use spot focus at iso 200. is it too noisy or could be due to my handshake or no flash? does a filter help? thanks for your help and advice!

josho · 11th January 2005

Its kinsa noisy though. i no pro on marco. But why dun u use ISO80 and try?

Maybe its the noise that make ur image not been focus.

Howdy · 11th January 2005

Try using manual focus instead of auto focus when shooting macro.

theITguy · 11th January 2005

Your level of sharpening? I compared the FZ20 and FX7 review pictures from DPreview.com and found that the FX7 is very soft, but details retained. Once USM applied on it the FX7 picture is as sharp if not sharper than the FZ20 picture. Your 3rd picture seems to be in focus, maybe you try apply a bit USM to see if it works out good for you.

tankm · 11th January 2005

Originally Posted by wiki

hi guys,

took the following pictures in macro mode. my picture does not seem to be sharp and detailed. what goes wrong? i have use spot focus at iso 200. is it too noisy or could be due to my handshake or no flash? does a filter help? thanks for your help and advice!

I'm still learning the best way to take macro with the FZ20 as well.

You may want to post the following information on those shots that you have taken. f-stop, shutter speed, with/without flash, any close-up lens (if yes, what is the diopter?), focal lens used, ISO ? All these are available in the photo EXIF except for use of close-up lens.

With the additional information, it will probably be easier to answer your question.

Have Fun.

jbma · 11th January 2005

Always try to use a tripod when shooting macro.

wiki · 11th January 2005

EXIF information on the pictures. thanks for all the advice

1st Pic
ExposureTime - 1/250 seconds
FNumber - 2.80
ISOSpeedRatings - 200
MeteringMode - Multi-segment
LightSource - Auto
Flash - Not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 19.70 mm
ExposureMode - Auto
WhiteBalance - Auto
FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 119 mm
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal

2nd Pic
ExposureTime - 1/200 seconds
FNumber - 3.30
ISOSpeedRatings - 200
MeteringMode - Multi-segment
LightSource - Auto
Flash - Not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 13.50 mm
ExposureMode - Auto
WhiteBalance - Auto
DigitalZoomRatio - 0.00 x
FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 81 mm
GainControl - Low gain up
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal

3rd Pic
ExposureTime - 1/100 seconds
FNumber - 2.80
ISOSpeedRatings - 200
MeteringMode - Multi-segment
LightSource - Auto
Flash - Not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 15.90 mm
ExposureMode - Auto
WhiteBalance - Auto
DigitalZoomRatio - 0.00 x
FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 95 mm
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal

4th pic
ExposureTime - 1/160 seconds
FNumber - 3.30
ExposureProgram - Normal program
ISOSpeedRatings - 200
MeteringMode - Multi-segment
LightSource - Auto
Flash - Not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 18.10 mm
ExposureMode - Auto
WhiteBalance - Auto
FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 109 mm
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal

wiki · 11th January 2005

i was thinking that it is likely that my ISO is set too high. i thought that by setting high, i will get to use a faster shutter speed hence would be sharper...but seem like FZ20 at iso 200 abit too much noise for macro. is that likely to be the case?

i did not use a tripod cos the ground was not really even, by the time i get into the position the butterfly would have flown off..

by the way what is USM?? unsharp mask filter in photoshop? for my post process i only do a bit of curve adjustment and cropping thats all.

really thanks alot for ur comments. let me know how else i can improve my macro shots esp for FZ20. thanks guys

rogersk8ter · 11th January 2005

The secret to Macro Photography is to use flash. For details, maybe some experts here would like to elaborate.

rhair78 · 11th January 2005

Hi wiki, i agree with rogersk8ter. Check out posts by tchuanye, you will see he uses a flash with a home made bounce card. With flash, you can go ahead and set the shutter to about 1/60 or 1/125. just be sure to check the flash, so as not to get too harsh a shot.

I am a cheater when shooting macro. will use the noise reduction and saturation settings in the menu.. hehehehehe

awongkk · 11th January 2005

Me not pro in shooting macro but I think the F2.8 it's a bit shallow. Try using F4.0 and smaller (F5.6 or F8), this will give you a greater D.O.F. Set to AP (aperture mode) and lock your focus at the F-stop. move forward and backward to get the focus and burst mode. (tripod might be useful) Add on the close-up filter will give you a

of your shoot.
Practice, practice and practice will improve..

wiki · 12th January 2005

hey guys really thanks for the advice..just a few questions...
for close up what is the picture setting that you use, eg in the sharpenss, contrast, etc.

another question is which mode u used. I agree with awongkk on the use of aperature mode, but the problem with that mode is that i find it very hard to lock focus. btw how often do u use the manual focus? while i find it useful in tuning the focus, i find that sometime it take too much time (maybe lack of practice on myside). i think it is really time to invest in an external flash...i have tried to use the built in flash but the barrel kinda of block it during close up situation. btw is my composition for the picks ok? thanks for the comments!

John Teoh · 12th January 2005

This might help.

http://azone.clubsnap.org/insectguide/page01.html

Cheers
John

wiki · 12th January 2005

Originally Posted by John Teoh

This might help.

http://azone.clubsnap.org/insectguide/page01.html

Cheers
John

hey that is really a useful site....the question now is how much are close up filters? are they very expensive? is it cheaper to step down my thread and get a 52mm filter or should i just get the 72mm directly (save cost in buying the tube adaptor)? thanks!

John Teoh · 12th January 2005

Originally Posted by wiki

hey that is really a useful site....the question now is how much are close up filters? are they very expensive? is it cheaper to step down my thread and get a 52mm filter or should i just get the 72mm directly (save cost in buying the tube adaptor)? thanks!

Depends on what you want. I bought 2 close up filter +3 and +4. Cost is $90 from AP. The adaptor which I bought during the last MO is $30 plus. Plus a step down ring is $5. Unless you are buying a lot of filters or getting the TCON or WCON, might not worth it. It is also very troublesome to change the filters.

Cheers
John

tankm · 12th January 2005

As others have pointed out, F2.8 will give you a narrow depth of field. However the interesting thing to note here is, although F2.8 gives you a narrow depth of field, some part of the subject must definitely be in focus, which is not the case for the sample photo you have posted. Except for photo 2 where it seems to have focus on the water droplet at the bottom right hand corner.

To me it seems there is some focusing issue here or as the depth of field is so narrow that by the time you press the shutter your camera may have moved or your hand is really not steady at all (don't take this personally).

Best way to try is, experiment on static object or flower (making sure no wind blowing at the flower) and take using hand-held and then with a tripod with the same setting.

For close-up lens there are generally two types, single lens type and acromatic type. Acromatic type are better quality but more costly.

As for the camera adapter, if you want to start using close-up lens, you will have to invest in one. Fixing a close-up lens to the provided Panasonic adapter is not ideal or recommended as it will be too far away from your main lens. When attaching all sorts of lens (Tele, Wide or Close-up) to get best quality it should be as close as possible to the main lens. Another thing is buying 72mm size items are generally more expensive compare to 55mm or 52mm.

Another website on macro photography that you can check out is Plonsky Photography

Have Fun.

wiki · 13th January 2005

hey tankm,

thanks alot for ur reply. i think handshake would be an issue as i maybe standing too close...will try again..another think i am suspecting is the use of spot focus...cos some of the part does not really have much detail so i wonder if i will be better using center focus instead?? btw do u think if too high noise level make the picture seem out of focus too? thanks!

11th January 2005	#1
wiki Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 111	Help on close up shoot using FZ20 hi guys, took the following pictures in macro mode. my picture does not seem to be sharp and detailed. what goes wrong? i have use spot focus at iso 200. is it too noisy or could be due to my handshake or no flash? does a filter help? thanks for your help and advice!

11th January 2005	#2
josho Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Jln Teck Whye Posts: 2,027	Its kinsa noisy though. i no pro on marco. But why dun u use ISO80 and try? Maybe its the noise that make ur image not been focus. __________________ Canon Blog Flickr

11th January 2005	#3
Howdy Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 202	Try using manual focus instead of auto focus when shooting macro. Last edited by Howdy; 11th January 2005 at 01:27 PM.

11th January 2005	#10
rhair78 Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,043	Hi wiki, i agree with rogersk8ter. Check out posts by tchuanye, you will see he uses a flash with a home made bounce card. With flash, you can go ahead and set the shutter to about 1/60 or 1/125. just be sure to check the flash, so as not to get too harsh a shot. I am a cheater when shooting macro. will use the noise reduction and saturation settings in the menu.. hehehehehe __________________ RH

11th January 2005	#11
awongkk Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Tampines Posts: 261	Macro Me not pro in shooting macro but I think the F2.8 it's a bit shallow. Try using F4.0 and smaller (F5.6 or F8), this will give you a greater D.O.F. Set to AP (aperture mode) and lock your focus at the F-stop. move forward and backward to get the focus and burst mode. (tripod might be useful) Add on the close-up filter will give you a of your shoot. Practice, practice and practice will improve..

11th January 2005	#4
theITguy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In this small world Posts: 2,042	Your level of sharpening? I compared the FZ20 and FX7 review pictures from DPreview.com and found that the FX7 is very soft, but details retained. Once USM applied on it the FX7 picture is as sharp if not sharper than the FZ20 picture. Your 3rd picture seems to be in focus, maybe you try apply a bit USM to see if it works out good for you.

11th January 2005	#6
jbma Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Tampines Posts: 3,315	Always try to use a tripod when shooting macro.

11th January 2005	#9
rogersk8ter Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 143	The secret to Macro Photography is to use flash. For details, maybe some experts here would like to elaborate.

12th January 2005	#12
wiki Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 111	hey guys really thanks for the advice..just a few questions... for close up what is the picture setting that you use, eg in the sharpenss, contrast, etc. another question is which mode u used. I agree with awongkk on the use of aperature mode, but the problem with that mode is that i find it very hard to lock focus. btw how often do u use the manual focus? while i find it useful in tuning the focus, i find that sometime it take too much time (maybe lack of practice on myside). i think it is really time to invest in an external flash...i have tried to use the built in flash but the barrel kinda of block it during close up situation. btw is my composition for the picks ok? thanks for the comments!

12th January 2005	#13
John Teoh Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tampines Posts: 1,862	This might help. http://azone.clubsnap.org/insectguide/page01.html Cheers John

12th January 2005	#16
tankm Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,619	As others have pointed out, F2.8 will give you a narrow depth of field. However the interesting thing to note here is, although F2.8 gives you a narrow depth of field, some part of the subject must definitely be in focus, which is not the case for the sample photo you have posted. Except for photo 2 where it seems to have focus on the water droplet at the bottom right hand corner. To me it seems there is some focusing issue here or as the depth of field is so narrow that by the time you press the shutter your camera may have moved or your hand is really not steady at all (don't take this personally). Best way to try is, experiment on static object or flower (making sure no wind blowing at the flower) and take using hand-held and then with a tripod with the same setting. For close-up lens there are generally two types, single lens type and acromatic type. Acromatic type are better quality but more costly. As for the camera adapter, if you want to start using close-up lens, you will have to invest in one. Fixing a close-up lens to the provided Panasonic adapter is not ideal or recommended as it will be too far away from your main lens. When attaching all sorts of lens (Tele, Wide or Close-up) to get best quality it should be as close as possible to the main lens. Another thing is buying 72mm size items are generally more expensive compare to 55mm or 52mm. Another website on macro photography that you can check out is Plonsky Photography Have Fun.

13th January 2005	#17
wiki Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 111	hey tankm, thanks alot for ur reply. i think handshake would be an issue as i maybe standing too close...will try again..another think i am suspecting is the use of spot focus...cos some of the part does not really have much detail so i wonder if i will be better using center focus instead?? btw do u think if too high noise level make the picture seem out of focus too? thanks!