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Thread: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Singapore is not First World.
    Don't bluff ourselves.

    Singapore is not a good model for developing countries. But the silly author of that article gave the wrong reasons.
    The correct reason is that - we can pull an almost impossible feat since 1965 to progress to 2012; and others cannot. So they should not try our model.

    Where was Rodney King in 1965? I have lived in the Singapore of 1965. He does not know what he is talking about.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    since when was malaysia under the same strong british governance? sg was the entrepot, not whole of malaya as far as i remember.

    only these few was under british administration.
    Straits Settlements - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    sg was the port, not penang, not malacca.

    as much as NE likes to tell us we have no resources and always be wary, it is good to know the actual roots. we all didn't start from rock bottom. in fact, we had a very big headstart.
    OK. A little history lesson from a Malaysian.
    Penang was established as a port but it didn't work out. Hence SG's establishment and rise. The Brits got Malacca later on via a swap deal with the Dutch. But Malacca could not accommodate larger vessels.
    The other states were forced to accept British advisers ("residents") who pretty much administered the state on behalf of the sultans.
    Even though the British residents are often vilified (look up JWW Birch), some like Frank Swettenham did a very good job, and helped establish a very strong system of governance that was passed down to later generations.

    But after independence we let it rot. We threw away a lot of the good things the Brits left us, because some didn't like to acknowledge that Malaysia was once a colony (technically a "protectorate"). We allowed corruption to fester to the point that raising cows is the best business (google NFC cowgate).

    Definitely SG did not start at the rock bottom. But compared to MY, you only have a port. You don't even have the most basic resource of all: water.
    Perhaps you are too young to remember the "tutup paip" chants from Johor.

    If there is any lesson to learn, it's that Old Lee fought corruption successfully (of course, there will never be 0 corruption) and didn't tinker too much with a working system.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post

    .. happens to be available in Burmese titled "Thettaya Kabar Hma Padama Kabar Tho".

    Dislike... dislike ...dislike .... i got tired of typing the same word... haha

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by cks2k2 View Post
    Well you should look at Malaysia. Inherited the same strong British governance but where is it today?
    But Malaysia has refined corruption into fine art.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    Thx God.... and please don't follow us... or your nation would end up with a whole brunch of people who will complain day and night about EVERYTHING... please please don't use us as any role model.... thx you.
    people complain... people complaining about people complaining ....and the circle repeats lol .... but to be fair... i think it happens everywhere haha..
    not just here.... and there exists the myth of the "typical singaporean"
    Everyone looks down on the "typical singaporean' it is always somebody else .....not ourselves....no ones wants to be typical.... no one will admit he or she is typical...when complaining about "singaporeans" we sometimes forget "we' are singaporeans" too

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by cws77 View Post
    ...when complaining about "singaporeans" we sometimes forget "we' are singaporeans" too
    By complaining we reveal a deep-seated hunger to be a better man. Singapore history is littered with fallen heros who couldn't scale such pinnacle to the dizzy height of perfection.

    Look at our hero Yaw Shin Leong. He tried to be a whole man than he was. He is like a moth that flew into flame. What killed him was not the flame but his own shadow and the shadows that fluttered on top of him and below him. His dreams although pleasurable were a painful reminder of a weak and spent body.


  7. #27

    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    By complaining we reveal a deep-seated hunger to be a better man. Singapore history is littered with fallen heros who couldn't scale such pinnacle to the dizzy height of perfection.

    Look at our hero Yaw Shin Leong. He tried to be a whole man than he was. He is like a moth that flew into flame. What killed him was not the flame but his own shadow and the shadows that fluttered on top of him and below him. His dreams although pleasurable were a painful reminder of a weak and spent body.

    hahahahah so complaining should be a virtue..... it should become the sixth star in our flag.... our flag should have one crescent and six stars hahahah the original 5 stars representing the 5 Cs every singaporean wants is added with one more C... C for COMPLAIN hahahhaha

  8. #28

    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by cws77 View Post
    hahahahah so complaining should be a virtue..... it should become the sixth star in our flag.... our flag should have one crescent and six stars hahahah the original 5 stars representing the 5 Cs every singaporean wants is added with one more C... C for COMPLAIN hahahhaha
    then Singaporeans can proclaim to be.... *Drum Roll*

    6-C and we know it

  9. #29

    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Look at our hero Yaw Shin Leong. He tried to be a whole man than he was. He is like a moth that flew into flame. What killed him was not the flame but his own shadow and the shadows that fluttered on top of him and below him. His dreams although pleasurable were a painful reminder of a weak and spent body.

    Peter Chin is mah new hiro.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by An drew View Post

    Bhutan is another model, but Khaw Boon Wan already declare this model no good and saying "most of the time I saw unhappy people." and "Singapore could well be their Shangrila."
    So we should be happier than we feel. Finally, I think that Singapore is a good model and there should be a Lee Kuan Yew and Low Thia Khiang in every country implementing this model.
    Bhutan is already getting less happy because they know what they are missing out on.

    LKY, I know. LTK, what exactly did he do?

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    since when was malaysia under the same strong british governance? sg was the entrepot, not whole of malaya as far as i remember.

    only these few was under british administration.
    Straits Settlements - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    sg was the port, not penang, not malacca.

    as much as NE likes to tell us we have no resources and always be wary, it is good to know the actual roots. we all didn't start from rock bottom. in fact, we had a very big headstart.
    And how does the other colonies in the Straits Settlements do now vis-a-vis Singapore?

    It is true that we got a headstart and it was in a way fortunate that we were ruled by the British instead of, say, the Dutch or the Portuguese. We were definitely no fishing village in 1965.

    It is also true we had no resources. So give credit where it is due.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    then Singaporeans can proclaim to be.... *Drum Roll*

    6-C and we know it
    erm, but the cantonese version or the english version... makes a lot of difference leh Hahahahaha

  12. #32

    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by acpical View Post
    Bhutan is already getting less happy because they know what they are missing out on.
    Ah Bhutan. Happiness by homogeneity.
    You are by law required to wear the traditional costumes.
    No TV until 1999.
    Ethnic Nepalese too different? No prob, just kick them out.
    Now everyone all happy family.

  13. #33
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    in fact, we had a very big headstart.
    Yet you have 10 photographers with a brilliant sunset and great cameras, how many of these will give you a ballbreaking shot?

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    Yet you have 10 photographers with a brilliant sunset and great cameras, how many of these will give you a ballbreaking shot?
    better chance la... somemore sg was like a hub, full of rich traders and their families. good number very highly educated, many have experience and aspirations after ww2.

    soo.... now you have 10 brilliant photographers, with a brilliant sunset and great cameras. likelihood quite high haha.

    sg was really an odd mix of conditions. each contributed significantly. take any out, we might not even be here. i mean, its pretty telling when a good majority of your forerunners then are all non-natives. lets say sg was never a port. a few of the bigger families might not have even settled here. lky might be off in china, who knows!

    thats why its really hard to argue that a certain method of governance can lead to a successful nation. i prefer to view it as conditions for nation building. some acknowledgement must be given towards the conditions that allowed for such a method to succeed, and that there are limitations to how it can be applied.
    Last edited by allenleonhart; 6th June 2012 at 11:06 PM.

  15. #35
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    thats why its really hard to argue that a certain method of governance can lead to a successful nation. i prefer to view it as conditions for nation building. some acknowledgement must be given towards the conditions that allowed for such a method to succeed, and that there are limitations to how it can be applied.
    I raised that point because you made it sound as if Singapore is what it is today because of what it was. Yes, we had advantages. Whether you grab the opportunties and seize the day is another thing altogether. Naturally I won't put the result down solely to one man because one man's strength can only lend so much, but we did well as a nation and you should never take that collective effort that brought us here today too lightly. We could very well be something else today, and like it or not, certain people did have a part to play and deserve some amount of due credit.

    No photographer is going to make a beautiful sunset photograph out of overcast skies either. But that's another story for another day.

    Of course no one is ever going to be able to say for sure "What If?". That's a rather interesting human tendency to address the counterfactual when it obviously is never going to be realized. So what though? We are here today, that's what counts. Quite a number of economists have written various articles about the fallacy of the Asian miracles (including Singapore) to address the "Why?" (rather than "What If"), such as Paul Krugman and Alwyn Young. Frankly, at the end of the day, only time will tell.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by acpical View Post
    LKY, I know. LTK, what exactly did he do?
    .
    Last edited by An drew; 7th June 2012 at 03:51 PM.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by An drew View Post
    My comment still stands.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    I raised that point because you made it sound as if Singapore is what it is today because of what it was. Yes, we had advantages. Whether you grab the opportunties and seize the day is another thing altogether. Naturally I won't put the result down solely to one man because one man's strength can only lend so much, but we did well as a nation and you should never take that collective effort that brought us here today too lightly. We could very well be something else today, and like it or not, certain people did have a part to play and deserve some amount of due credit.

    No photographer is going to make a beautiful sunset photograph out of overcast skies either. But that's another story for another day.

    Of course no one is ever going to be able to say for sure "What If?". That's a rather interesting human tendency to address the counterfactual when it obviously is never going to be realized. So what though? We are here today, that's what counts. Quite a number of economists have written various articles about the fallacy of the Asian miracles (including Singapore) to address the "Why?" (rather than "What If"), such as Paul Krugman and Alwyn Young. Frankly, at the end of the day, only time will tell.
    just a thought ....it is debatable who are the certain people who should take more credit... how many times have we seen cases where the workers do all the hard work and the leader or boss just come out and take the credit..... not saying its the case here ... but in life this sort of situation happens a lot ......

  19. #39

    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by acpical View Post
    My comment still stands.
    erm what did LKy do haha? and are you sure you know what he did? hahhaa

  20. #40

    Default Re: Singapore not a good model for developing countries

    Quote Originally Posted by cws77 View Post
    erm, but the cantonese version or the english version... makes a lot of difference leh Hahahahaha
    well if our society degrades as what the author says, then we can use the cantonese version.

    if our society continues to flourish, then we can use sexay

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