Push and Pull One Stop

andyap · 1st August 2002

When someone said that his photo has one stop pulled or pushed what does he meant? Do you pull and push on the ISO eg. using ISO 100 film but push up to ISO 200 via the camera setting. Or perhaps they adjust the aperture or shutter speed up or down from the actual camera readings.

Please advise as I am a newbie to photography - Thanks.

ninelives · 1st August 2002

when add 1 or more stop setting in camera setting(aperture,shutter speed) it is call exposure compansation.

when add 1 stop by adjust ISO it is call pushing film.

exposure compensation is use when stituation like shooting cloud or snow and you want it to appear the way it is (ie white). Else it will appear grey. coz camera metering is always adject itself to mid-grey.

why pusing film? well, if the surrounding area is dark, or not enought light, we will push film, so we can use higher shutter speed to freeze certain object for example birds. it is also helpful if you taking indoor shot.

Mystix · 4th August 2002

ok so for example u wanna push 1 stop for a iso800 film that means to set it at iso1600? how do one knows if that film can take it or not....wouldn't this affect the quality since its not rated that in the first place?

scanner · 4th August 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Mystix
ok so for example u wanna push 1 stop for a iso800 film that means to set it at iso1600? how do one knows if that film can take it or not....wouldn't this affect the quality since its not rated that in the first place?

Yes, definitely. Pushing the film will make the pics more grainy.
However, generally speaking certain films are able to tolerate some pushings.

Normally, I dun push my film.

Juvelyn · 4th August 2002

if I push the film [e.g ISO 400 to 320] do I have to give any special instructions when I send it to the lab?

ckiang · 4th August 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Juvelyn
if I push the film [e.g ISO 400 to 320] do I have to give any special instructions when I send it to the lab?

That's not quite pushing or pulling. It's call "re-rating" the film, just process as per normal. If I am not wrong, can only push in 1 stop increments.

Regards
CK

thamwk · 5th August 2002

This is how it works. Basically you re-rate your film(print or slide) to another setting recommended by the manufacturer and exposed it.

For example, you can re-rate Provia 400F at ISO 800 or ISO 1600. When you bring the exposed roll to the lab, you have to tell them to push process the roll. It it is rated at ISO 800, then asked them to push 1 stop. If rated at ISO 1600, ask them to push 2 stop.

What the lab will do then is to proess the film for a longer period of time. This take up thier machine time and need more chemicals (this part not very sure). Thus you have to pay more for push processing, even more for 2 stops.

So far for slide films, only RGB is able to push 2 stops, K T Photo at Tiong Bahru only able to push 1 stop.

Generally, it is more grainny for push processing.

Each type of films can be pushed process, look out for the specifications on Kodak or Fuji's web sites.

ninelives · 5th August 2002

It is KJ Photo, not KT photo. They can push up till 1.5 stop.

excentrique · 5th August 2002

You don't want to push anything more than 2 stop as pictures quality will drastically deteriorate after that. Remember that when you push or pull your film, you are actually stretching the limitation of the film. There will be reciprocity effect during the processing stage which can be hard to control and you may not get constant results if the stop difference is too great.

Apart from sending to the lab you can also do in-camera pushing as well. All just by the use of camera speed or your aperture control.

ninelives · 5th August 2002

depands, read from magazine that provia 400F can push 2 stop without any quality different.

which is a good news for those who order the bulk load.

excentrique · 6th August 2002

Well, I think fuji has one trans which allows you to set your asa from 100-1000? Can't remembetr but I tried that out very long time ago. Don't really like the effect though.

Red Dawn · 6th August 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by excentrique
Well, I think fuji has one trans which allows you to set your asa from 100-1000? Can't remembetr but I tried that out very long time ago. Don't really like the effect though.

that's the Fuji MS 100-1000 slide film.

Provia 400F pushes better than that however.

Mystix · 11th August 2002

ermm sorry got a question again....suppose ur using fuji 400nph and u rate it as 320. when u meter ur shots rite...do u have to compensate maybe half stop or u juz let the meter calcalate entirely as 320. Whats the reason for rating it at 320, less grain?
coz if it was rated at the original 400 wouldn't that yield faster shutter speeds which would be better? pardon my ignorance

tsdh · 11th August 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Mystix
ermm sorry got a question again....suppose ur using fuji 400nph and u rate it as 320. when u meter ur shots rite...do u have to compensate maybe half stop or u juz let the meter calcalate entirely as 320. Whats the reason for rating it at 320, less grain?
coz if it was rated at the original 400 wouldn't that yield faster shutter speeds which would be better? pardon my ignorance

Negative films mostly take over-expose better than under-expose, and also less grain. Especially those low-contrast films such as NPH or Portra.

hyun · 25th February 2003

pushing/pulling, which was the one that gives u better shadow detail for dark/night shots?
and which was the one that reduces washout from e.g. bright streetlamps, merlion?

Wai · 25th February 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by thamwk
This is how it works. Basically you re-rate your film(print or slide) to another setting recommended by the manufacturer and exposed it.

For example, you can re-rate Provia 400F at ISO 800 or ISO 1600. When you bring the exposed roll to the lab, you have to tell them to push process the roll. It it is rated at ISO 800, then asked them to push 1 stop. If rated at ISO 1600, ask them to push 2 stop.

What the lab will do then is to proess the film for a longer period of time. This take up thier machine time and need more chemicals (this part not very sure). Thus you have to pay more for push processing, even more for 2 stops.

So far for slide films, only RGB is able to push 2 stops, K T Photo at Tiong Bahru only able to push 1 stop.

Generally, it is more grainny for push processing.

Each type of films can be pushed process, look out for the specifications on Kodak or Fuji's web sites.

wah...so complicated,...sounds like overclocking a CPU.
so let's say i use a provia 100, what i need to do is set ISO to 200 on camera, and then shoot as normal, after that tell the lab to push 1 stop? how much more have to pay?? why not get provia 200 instead??

newbie to film here

look like "pushing" using DSLR easier...press set button and turn the dial on click left

hazardman · 25th February 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by hyun
pushing/pulling, which was the one that gives u better shadow detail for dark/night shots?
and which was the one that reduces washout from e.g. bright streetlamps, merlion?

If i'm not wrong Pushing gives more shadow detail, and Pulling reduces more washout

hyun · 26th February 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by hazardman

If i'm not wrong Pushing gives more shadow detail, and Pulling reduces more washout

i find it quite hard to appreciate this: if u push it, the exposure is shorter, yet shadow detail (dim light) is more obviously recorded?

and if u pull it and let the bright light burn in at a longer exposure, u end up getting less washout?

defies logic.. but it works huh?

jasonpgc · 26th February 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by hyun

i find it quite hard to appreciate this: if u push it, the exposure is shorter, yet shadow detail (dim light) is more obviously recorded?

and if u pull it and let the bright light burn in at a longer exposure, u end up getting less washout?

defies logic.. but it works huh?

I have serious doubt in these, if any film are to turn out better if you pull them, the manufacturer would label that rating as their FILM ISO Value. Come on, the film makers are not stupid, they know the rating of their film better than anyone in the market. Even the so call PRO users have their own ways of judging exposure. Its due to THEIR OWN PERSONAL TASTE AND EXPOSURE PREFERENCE that their recommend any film to be used not as the Film ISO setting. Don't be blind be this. Its better to get yourself to perfect your own manual metering method and to know the film characteristic at the tip of your fingers. With manual metering, we choose reduced the exposure or lengthen it to achieve what we want for a particular frame. But this pulling thing seems stupid, cos you're paying for ISO 800 and you use it at ISO 400.

On the other hand, pushing is more relevant. When you're in a stituation where there is no support and you have only slow film. Then pushing save your day.

hyun · 26th February 2003

certainly the recommended setting should achieve results best on all fronts but even something like pulling can make sense. u double the exposure time, u halve the development time, the end result may have a poorer resolution or something but the brightness and colour distribution may, as what was pointed out, give a reduced washout of bright subjects and leave the rest of the picture reasonably intact, rather than just underexposing everything to prevent washout and losing dim detail.

1st August 2002	#1
andyap Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 192	Push and Pull One Stop When someone said that his photo has one stop pulled or pushed what does he meant? Do you pull and push on the ISO eg. using ISO 100 film but push up to ISO 200 via the camera setting. Or perhaps they adjust the aperture or shutter speed up or down from the actual camera readings. Please advise as I am a newbie to photography - Thanks.

1st August 2002	#2
ninelives Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: BB Posts: 2,622	when add 1 or more stop setting in camera setting(aperture,shutter speed) it is call exposure compansation. when add 1 stop by adjust ISO it is call pushing film. exposure compensation is use when stituation like shooting cloud or snow and you want it to appear the way it is (ie white). Else it will appear grey. coz camera metering is always adject itself to mid-grey. why pusing film? well, if the surrounding area is dark, or not enought light, we will push film, so we can use higher shutter speed to freeze certain object for example birds. it is also helpful if you taking indoor shot. Last edited by ninelives; 1st August 2002 at 01:44 PM.

4th August 2002	#3
Mystix Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 645	ok so for example u wanna push 1 stop for a iso800 film that means to set it at iso1600? how do one knows if that film can take it or not....wouldn't this affect the quality since its not rated that in the first place?

4th August 2002	#5
Juvelyn Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 396	if I push the film [e.g ISO 400 to 320] do I have to give any special instructions when I send it to the lab?

5th August 2002	#7
thamwk Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Bishan Posts: 52	This is how it works. Basically you re-rate your film(print or slide) to another setting recommended by the manufacturer and exposed it. For example, you can re-rate Provia 400F at ISO 800 or ISO 1600. When you bring the exposed roll to the lab, you have to tell them to push process the roll. It it is rated at ISO 800, then asked them to push 1 stop. If rated at ISO 1600, ask them to push 2 stop. What the lab will do then is to proess the film for a longer period of time. This take up thier machine time and need more chemicals (this part not very sure). Thus you have to pay more for push processing, even more for 2 stops. So far for slide films, only RGB is able to push 2 stops, K T Photo at Tiong Bahru only able to push 1 stop. Generally, it is more grainny for push processing. Each type of films can be pushed process, look out for the specifications on Kodak or Fuji's web sites.

5th August 2002	#9
excentrique Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: east Posts: 339	You don't want to push anything more than 2 stop as pictures quality will drastically deteriorate after that. Remember that when you push or pull your film, you are actually stretching the limitation of the film. There will be reciprocity effect during the processing stage which can be hard to control and you may not get constant results if the stop difference is too great. Apart from sending to the lab you can also do in-camera pushing as well. All just by the use of camera speed or your aperture control.

6th August 2002	#11
excentrique Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: east Posts: 339	Well, I think fuji has one trans which allows you to set your asa from 100-1000? Can't remembetr but I tried that out very long time ago. Don't really like the effect though.

11th August 2002	#13
Mystix Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 645	ermm sorry got a question again....suppose ur using fuji 400nph and u rate it as 320. when u meter ur shots rite...do u have to compensate maybe half stop or u juz let the meter calcalate entirely as 320. Whats the reason for rating it at 320, less grain? coz if it was rated at the original 400 wouldn't that yield faster shutter speeds which would be better? pardon my ignorance

25th February 2003	#15
hyun Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Farrer Road Posts: 394	pushing/pulling, which was the one that gives u better shadow detail for dark/night shots? and which was the one that reduces washout from e.g. bright streetlamps, merlion?

26th February 2003	#20
hyun Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Farrer Road Posts: 394	certainly the recommended setting should achieve results best on all fronts but even something like pulling can make sense. u double the exposure time, u halve the development time, the end result may have a poorer resolution or something but the brightness and colour distribution may, as what was pointed out, give a reduced washout of bright subjects and leave the rest of the picture reasonably intact, rather than just underexposing everything to prevent washout and losing dim detail.