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Thread: This, I agree with

  1. #41
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Default Re: This, I agree with

    I feel that we have spent enough on defense. We should scale back and use the money on other social spending. Although considered a bad word some time back but it is quite clear now that Singapore is not different - some form of welfare is needed here. The question is on how to have a good safety net without eroding work ethics.

  2. #42

    Default Re: This, I agree with

    Quote Originally Posted by moveslikejagger92 View Post
    We need both diplomacy and saf. your allies may not be able to send their troops to aid you in time if they themselves are at war. that's what happened in WWII in singapore. so we need a strong army to protect ourselves and stall some time for other allies to help u
    FWAH. someone is a history ace student here! for 25 points can you explain why they couldn't send anyone to help us?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahboy168 View Post
    Can we just outsourced to US. So every year fixed operating cost for "protection money".
    Then free up more resources for work force.
    Why reinvent the wheel ?
    are you stupid or pretending to be stupid?

  3. #43

    Default Re: This, I agree with

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    I feel that we have spent enough on defense. We should scale back and use the money on other social spending. Although considered a bad word some time back but it is quite clear now that Singapore is not different - some form of welfare is needed here. The question is on how to have a good safety net without eroding work ethics.
    we cannot afford to be outdated. even now as i type, technology is advancing. weapons of war can be obsolete in a matter of days or weeks.

    do you know how outdated most of our equipment already are? we need a major overhaul.

  4. #44
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    we cannot afford to be outdated. even now as i type, technology is advancing. weapons of war can be obsolete in a matter of days or weeks.

    do you know how outdated most of our equipment already are? we need a major overhaul.
    Not true. Like photography, it is not the equipment (of course have to be decent but not necessary the latest and greatest), it is the people behind the equipment. You have an unmotivated and unfit army, no equipment will save you - look at Vietnam War.

    In any case, in comparison to our potential threats, our equipment is pretty up to date.

  5. #45

    Default Re: This, I agree with

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    Not true. Like photography, it is not the equipment (of course have to be decent but not necessary the latest and greatest), it is the people behind the equipment. You have an unmotivated and unfit army, no equipment will save you - look at Vietnam War.

    In any case, in comparison to our potential threats, our equipment is pretty up to date.
    did you know Malaysia is going through an update as well?

    i did state weapons of war. do you know how much it takes to train people to use it? hence the high costs. they have to send people overseas for training, fly instructors over, purchase the machinery, maintain it etc. don't take the cost at face value

  6. #46
    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: This, I agree with

    [Philippines Looks to US Treaty in China Dispute] - [VOA - Voice of America English News]
    Quote Originally Posted by ahboy168 View Post
    Can we just outsourced to US. So every year fixed operating cost for "protection money".
    Then free up more resources for work force.
    Why reinvent the wheel ?
    Just look across the sea today at the Philippines being bullied by China

    Key ally of the Philippines , the US is even afraid of adding further strain to their relationship with China and dare not intervene in the South China Sea dispute

    Philippines Look to US Treaty

    The british hightailed it and left us high and dry when Japan invaded ..... you still want to count on outsiders ?

    Do you sleep with your doors and gate unlocked because your taxes pay for the services of the Singapore Police Force ?
    Last edited by ed9119; 24th May 2012 at 12:06 PM.
    shaddap and just shoot .... up close
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  7. #47

    Default Re: This, I agree with

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    Not true. Like photography, it is not the equipment (of course have to be decent but not necessary the latest and greatest), it is the people behind the equipment. You have an unmotivated and unfit army, no equipment will save you - look at Vietnam War.

    In any case, in comparison to our potential threats, our equipment is pretty up to date.
    And what is decent? Mortar is decent. You want to use that to fight artillery? So what if you have the most dedicated and efficient mortar crew? A slow artillery team can take its time to set up and still blast you to pieces.

    The M16 / SAR21 is decent. But you really believe that using your rifle ala BMT to shoot fighter planes really work?

    Still, you are right. With people of both you and ahboy168's calibre and attitude, no weapon is good enough.

    Our strategy has worked well. In fact, it worked so well it bred complacency among people like you.
    Last edited by acpical; 24th May 2012 at 12:14 PM.

  8. #48
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Default Re: This, I agree with

    Quote Originally Posted by acpical View Post
    And what is decent? Mortar is decent. You want to use that to fight artillery? So what if you have the most dedicated and efficient mortar crew? A slow artillery team can take its time to set up and still blast you to pieces.

    The M16 / SAR21 is decent. But you really believe that using your rifle ala BMT to shoot fighter planes really work?

    Still, you are right. With people of both you and ahboy168's calibre and attitude, no weapon is good enough.

    Our strategy has worked well. In fact, it worked so well it bred complacency among people like you.
    Surely we have all these bases already covered.

    I am not complacent - I am now more worried about social cohesion and the sustanability of our economy and society, not whether tomorrow Malaysia will cheong over with the latest Russian MIGs.

  9. #49
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    We have to be realistic here. We have to prioritise what our biggest threats are and right now our biggest threat with their McDonnell Douglas F/A-18D Hornets can't even drop **** literally as said by Dr. M himself.
    doesnt matter. they want they can just block of trading routes etc etc. sg no food no water, no nothing. they just need drag and we can lan lan suck thumb.

  10. #50
    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: This, I agree with

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    doesnt matter. they want they can just block of trading routes etc etc. sg no food no water, no nothing. they just need drag and we can lan lan suck thumb.
    there is literally nothing to protect in Singapore (no land, no resources) .... maybe our families and friends whom WE value and love ..... which an enemy has little love, value or feelings for

    to conquer Singapore without firing a single bullet or loss of a single life , you just need to destroy 4 things
    1. its reputation as a safe haven
    2. its financial and legal infrastructures and regulations
    3. its laws
    4. and what the 5 stars on our flag represents

    once you destroy the above, what use are brand new airports, the MRT, our skyscrapers, gardens, casinos, condos by the sea , shopping malls , roads ...? you end up with things with no value and lots of very angry people without jobs

    just look at Greece ...... not 100-200 years ago ..... today

    oh one good thing if you achieve the destruction of one or more of the 4 things above ...... you get rid of your hated FTs and PRs very quickly .... you can have the entire island all to yourself then

    other countries can afford to be a Banana Republic and still operate because they have resources in the ground so they dont need to make things or create services to sell to raise $$$ to keep the population going .... they just sell drilling and mining rights and collect royalty.... or just sell blood stones to raise cash
    Last edited by ed9119; 24th May 2012 at 11:40 PM.
    shaddap and just shoot .... up close
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  11. #51
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    Default Re: This, I agree with

    Malaysia is alright under Najib who is a stable moderate. No need to rescue a son from massive share losses. Relations are good between MLY+SGP.

    On the topic of super powers coming to our aid. Usually the super power will ask "What is in it for me?" This is normal. This is human nature.

    If we have nothing of benefit to the super power, help may not come. Or come very s...l....o.....w...l....y.. by which time all of us are dead.

    Or they may hold lengthy conferences - with no meaningful result.

    Rwanda. 800,000 people were slaughtered but no one came to their rescue. UN troops on the ground inside Rwanda were given a command by the UN forbidding them to interfere to save the people being slaughtered. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...slaughter.html

    Saudi Arabia has the largest oil reserves in the world (until Jan 2011 when Venezuela claimed to have more). When Saudi Arabia's neighbour Kuwait was invaded, the super power reacted immediately. Not because the super power loved Kuwait. But because Iraq was poised to invade Saudi Arabia after Kuwait. See? If you have something the super power needs, you don't need to ask for help. When only your neighbour is attacked, the super power will rush to your defence without being asked.

    So this is the reality.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 24th May 2012 at 09:44 PM.

  12. #52
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: This, I agree with

    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119 View Post
    1. its reputation as a safe haven
    2. its financial and legal infrastructures and regulations
    3. its laws
    4. and what the 5 stars on our flag represents
    haha true. that's the easiest way to go about. we REALLY have nothing to defend actually... imho, big states/nations have nothing to gain, and everything to lose of they decide to fight sg. they need a nice middle man to act as a transaction place (for china and US, etc etc) where traditionally there is rivalry. sg serves as a nice neutral point imo.

    but we are nice sitting ducks for terrorists. they like to see the world burn, and us too. perhaps that is the biggest focus we need to have la.

  13. #53
    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: This, I agree with

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post

    but we are nice sitting ducks for terrorists..
    the success of a terrorist attack in Singapore is NOT just in the destruction of property and life (thats just a nice bonus) ...... its the destruction or shake in confidence of one of these 4 points
    Last edited by ed9119; 24th May 2012 at 09:45 PM.
    shaddap and just shoot .... up close
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  14. #54
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: This, I agree with

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfton View Post
    Bro seriously I do not know.....where to see the figure? I only know now NSF officers are paid a full time restaurant manager pay, seems to be the case. CPL should have $600 bah....

    Actually if stay in, some can even save lots of their NSF pay. But really, NSF nowadays should not complain liao....really not bad already. We only get about $170-$200 as a recruit last time
    During my time.. my Private pay is only $130...

  15. #55
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: This, I agree with

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    During my time.. my Private pay is only $130...
    inflation... inflation. your 130 is now worth around 480...

  16. #56
    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: This, I agree with

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    During my time.. my Private pay is only $130...
    i win .... mine was $90 .... 1st Mono Intake
    shaddap and just shoot .... up close
    Walkeast

  17. #57

    Default Re: This, I agree with

    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119 View Post
    i win .... mine was $90 .... 1st Mono Intake
    my dad was the first batch too. and in the volunteer corp before that.

  18. #58
    Member 9V-Orion Images's Avatar
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    Default Re: This, I agree with

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    doesnt matter. they want they can just block of trading routes etc etc. sg no food no water, no nothing. they just need drag and we can lan lan suck thumb.
    Not really an issue, if you had just understood the slightest hint of what I have been inferring in this thread, we will be more or less self-sufficient within 48 hours if everything goes as planned. I'll not delve further into topics regarding expeditionary / rapid deployment forces due to reason of Operations Security (OPSEC).

    Also, blockading a Sea Line of Communication (SLOC) such as the Strait of Malacca will be in violation of Part III of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS III) with regards to freedom of transit passage. Doing so will piss a lot of nations off and thus it won't reflect well on the belligerent who does it. God knows what the consequences will be.

    All right, better stop immediately before I crossed the line over for a free kopi. Cheers. ;)
    Last edited by 9V-Orion Images; 24th May 2012 at 10:58 PM.
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  19. #59
    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: This, I agree with

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    Not really an issue, if you had just understood the slightest hint of what I have been inferring in this thread, we will be more or less self-sufficient within 48 hours if everything goes as planned.
    hint hint why do you think we have one of the largest airforce and navy in the region and highest spending per capita on defense ?

    In asia, only China, India, Japan and South Korea have bigger annual defence spendings than the little sleeping tiger .... Singapore
    Last edited by ed9119; 24th May 2012 at 11:11 PM.
    shaddap and just shoot .... up close
    Walkeast

  20. #60

    Default Re: This, I agree with

    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119 View Post
    hint hint why do you think we have one of the largest airforce and navy in the region and highest spending per capita on defense ?

    In asia, only China, India, Japan and South Korea have bigger annual defence spendings than the little sleeping tiger .... Singapore
    other countries so big, that's why we need to invest really a lot in defense to protect ourselves if one day these big nations come attack us

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