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Thread: New and wondering

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevyan
    Well, just to share with all. I am currently using a digital camera -- Sony DSP-P72, simple digital camera to take normal shots.

    My interest in photography has been around for sometime, but it is because of $$$ issue that stop me. I had play around with the Sony camera for sometime, but this camera has it's limitation. Setting is quite fix.

    One thing for sure is that I cannot afford a DSLR. My take home pay is only about $1.1K, getting married soon, meaning more $$$ will be flowing out.

    I hope to learn my about photography is because of interest and also in hope that I can be a freelance photographer to earn for a living too.

    But as for now, I can only afford the budget of around $600+ for everything.
    (Body, lens, cleaning kit, and hopefully a decent tripod). But I guess it is quite difficult.

    That is why I need advice from pros like you guys.
    Hi friend, you should prioritise then. Photography, film or digital, if you go into it in a serious way, can be a big drain on your finances. The price of the body is only the starting point.

  2. #22

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    Welcome to ClubSnap. Since you already have digital point & shoots to play with, I recommend that you stick with them. What do you not like about them? What limits you? If you are really a newbie why not spend time, not money to learn more about photography first? Library has got loads of good books. Forums like this is also a fab place to ask & learn.

    I shot with a super cheapo set of film SLR for 10yrs as well. I was a poor student then, cannot afford anything. True as somebody had said, every frame counts esp. when I got no money even for film sometimes. Sometimes don't have money to develop my negs. So they end up undeveloped. How's that? NOT A PROBLEM.

    Then right before I started working, the camera broke. I bite the bullet, forefo savings and went for an entire new set of AF film SLR. Then on to DSLR. Not that I can afford it now. BUT IT KEEPS ME SHOOTING.

    So, how badly do you want it?

  3. #23

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    Guys, I thank you all for all your advice and help.

    But from some of the sharing you guys have, it seems like I may not be able to get into photography due to $$$ issue.

    Understand that I need to prioritise. Now, getting married soon, then, gonna have kids. Man... I won't have money for photography....

    As of now, I am already feeling the disappointment. Many life choices seems to be constraint by $$$. Sigh...

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevyan
    Guys, I thank you all for all your advice and help.

    But from some of the sharing you guys have, it seems like I may not be able to get into photography due to $$$ issue.

    Understand that I need to prioritise. Now, getting married soon, then, gonna have kids. Man... I won't have money for photography....

    As of now, I am already feeling the disappointment. Many life choices seems to be constraint by $$$. Sigh...
    Not necessarily true. You can still enjoy photography but it is hard to turn pro coz of $$$ constraints.

    I got my first film SLR two months prior to my wife giving birth to our first child. That's her in my avatar. Purpose was to capture family moments. Didn't realize it would grow into a hobby. It was my launchpad to photography. But I don't have dreams of becoming pro or freelancer so I'm satisfied with what I have and keep my expenses under control. It depends how far you want to take it.

    Btw, that photo in my avatar won 2nd prize in a baby photo contest back in 2003.

    Last edited by Ben1223; 6th January 2005 at 12:37 AM.

  5. #25
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    Gee, I don't know. I'd be very happy to start a family with a special someone even if photography has to take a backseat for a while. Heh.

    Money does constrain many things. But if you lose the will to strive, then well, you are the one constraining yourself. Do the important things first, and continue with photography on the side with what you have. Keep your passion lit, you'll come out stronger in the end. (Hope that makes sense. )

  6. #26

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    For Ben 1223 - Boy... I must say your daughter is beautiful.

    And congrats to you too for winning 2nd prize with that photo.

    I love to take photos of people, love ones and scenaries.
    If I would to ask you to recommend a SLR camera for me to start out with, which camera would you recommend?

    For foxtwo - I am very happy to start a family with my special someone. We have been together for coming to 10 years, and decided to tie the knot this coming May. She likes photography too. Always wanting to learn more about it.

    I'm 29 this year, thus, I hope to learn more and achieve more. I don't want to waste my life away.

    Capturing the moments into photos is one great way for me to reflect and give thanks to for the many wonderful things in life.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevyan
    For Ben 1223 - Boy... I must say your daughter is beautiful.

    And congrats to you too for winning 2nd prize with that photo.

    I love to take photos of people, love ones and scenaries.
    If I would to ask you to recommend a SLR camera for me to start out with, which camera would you recommend?

    For foxtwo - I am very happy to start a family with my special someone. We have been together for coming to 10 years, and decided to tie the knot this coming May. She likes photography too. Always wanting to learn more about it.

    I'm 29 this year, thus, I hope to learn more and achieve more. I don't want to waste my life away.

    Capturing the moments into photos is one great way for me to reflect and give thanks to for the many wonderful things in life.
    Thanks and congratulations to you as well.

    Kinda hard to give advice about camera systems coz I have only used a Minolta Dynax 5. I am satisfied with it though. In a film system the camera body is the least important. In order of priority the following would affect the quality of the image that you take:
    1. Film
    2. Lens
    3. Camera body

    If you've always dreamed of a Nikon by all means get one. Ask the Nikon users for advice. If you fancy a Canon then ask canon users for advice, etc.
    Last edited by Ben1223; 6th January 2005 at 01:06 AM.

  8. #28

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    Thanks. I was also thinking of Dynax 5. But I couldn't find it on the KonicaMinolta SG website. So I think it could be a old model.

    I realised that you stay in Tampines... is that correct?

    I stay in Tampines too.... maybe one day we will get to meet each other and talk about photography...

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevyan
    Thanks. I was also thinking of Dynax 5. But I couldn't find it on the KonicaMinolta SG website. So I think it could be a old model.

    I realised that you stay in Tampines... is that correct?

    I stay in Tampines too.... maybe one day we will get to meet each other and talk about photography...
    Dynax 5 is an old model. Came out in 2002 I think.

    Yup. I stay at Tampines. Free on weekends most of the time. I'll let you play around with the camera. Btw, I attended a class conducted by a fellow CSer Sulhan. It's just $50 for 4 sessions. He uses a film an digital SLR as teaching tools. Even if you don't have an SLR I think he'll be happy to teach you.
    Last edited by Ben1223; 6th January 2005 at 01:18 AM.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevyan
    I am thinking of getting the Nikon F75.

    RECOMMENDED RETAIL PRICE : SIN$699 WITH AF 28-80mm f3.5-5.6G LEN

    Any comment or advice on it?
    no problem with this setup

    progress takes time. just have to be patient, read up and practice along te way and learn at your own pace

  11. #31

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    Hi hi,

    would anyone recommend Canon EOS 66?

    John 3:16 Photo is selling at $410.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkw
    Hi BB, I guess now I know why you sold your 10D to me . I still have it by the way and I think its a great cam, has contributed significantly to my development in photography. I guess we agree to disagree then. As I have mentioned in many previous posts, a lot of how people view this issue depends on the type of background you come from. Those who have shot a lot of film in the past and have reached a certain level of proficiency will invariably tout film as the way to go. For newbies like myself who have shot a little bit of film and now have hit digital in a big way, I can tell you, its like night and day, digital wins hands down as a quick way to learn photographic technique, NO CONTEST!
    It is a great cam alright, but then as a learning tool, it is a two sided affairs. You can either pick up bad habits (reviewing every pictures), becoming lazy (Just use machine guns style then review later), or you can become quite proficient (Digital Cameras have narrow DR, thus correct exposure is very important).


    I'd rather not mess around with the technical issues and focus on composition. If it takes me 100 shots at first to get 10 keepers, with instant review, I will soon learn and will come down to 20 shots to get 10 keepers. It's already happening to me after about 1 year of shooting DSLR, I'm taking a lot less shots than before, because my technique has improved so quickly. With film, I never knew what the problem was with my bad shots and I simply made the same mistake again the next time, so I still get my 3 keepers per roll of 36, every time.
    Not neccessary, as a doctor you should had realised human tendency to stick to old habits and refusal to change. Once a person gotten used to taking 100 shots to get 10 keepers, he will keep on taking 100 shots to get 10 keepers, because deep inside him he knows, What the heck, I can find shots I like after reviewing all anyway.

    For flims, you will have a lot of thinking to do before you press that trigger, lighting, composition, surrounding and sooner or later you get used to it and it becomes a second nature. Learning starts from thinking to keep all the shots you take and not throwing away 90 spoilt shots. Chances are you will never be able to recollect in what situation you took the 90 spoilt shots. the JPG Exif files only shows you the information of what the cameras get. You will never be able to remember what causes the fault, was it because the sun is directly in front or was it back litted.

    Lesson 1: Don't underestimate the power of instant review as an educational tool.

    The other tool I found most useful is the histogram. Sometimes you can talk to a newbie till you are blue in the face about exposure and he still won't *get it*. When I saw my first histogram on my P&S a light bulb just lit up in my mind. Up till then exposure was a nebulous concept, my finally I could visualise how my picture was exposing. Big important conceptual jump.

    Also, the advent of PS has also been a boon to improving compositional skills. How many folk are comfortable using a darkroom to try and crop, dodge etc? A lot less than those comfortable using PS to do the same I'll bet. You learn a lot by post-processing, so the next time you go out and shoot you remember to frame better, expose better, use a filter etc. It is an iterative process.
    Histrogram is good, but then it does not shows you the actual picture. I had once going on a trip with a digital photographer and he was reviewing his histrogram distribution, then he say, "Wah, overexposured" I glanced the histrogram and tell him, "no lah, where got overexposed" he said, "look at the histrogram, there is nothing on the right" .... my answer "Wah liao ..... you are shooting near water under the sun, the reflection will cause the pictures to be atuned towards bright colour. Look around you, greenry all around, but the main reflections are from the water.

    Learning to read the histrogram should coincide with the surrounding.

    Once when I was with a group, one photographer took a group picture of us, I hear his camera snap, without looking at his picture I just tell him "Hey, drop 1 stop, this picture underexposed". He look at his LCD and say "Wah, you can know this picture is underexposed by just listening?" Lesson? When you are used to compose and able to get used to instant calculation of surrounding, it becomes a second nature to you.

    For burning, dodging, recomposing in darkroom ...... what is the use of those if you get it right when you take the shot? Recomposing, burning and dodging will not be required.

    Lesson 2: You as much about composition in front of the computer as you do behind the viewfinder.

    To you experienced film users to whom these techniques/concepts are old hat, you have perhaps forgotten the kind of pain you had to endure to learn them. You fail to see how important/useful these short-cuts are in learning photography.
    I would not really agree with your view. Composing behind the viewfinder should be very much more then composing on the computer. If you get it right behind the viewfinder, what is the reason to composing on the computer?

    I had not forgotten the kind of pain I had to go through when I got my picture wrong, thus it is a lesson I never forget, to get the composition right first before I press the trigger. For people who are so used to short-cuts (or rather long ways round by doing lots and lots of post processing) infront of the computer, they will make the same mistake over and over again without learning the reason why, because "nevermind, I can photoshop it away".


    By implication, you are saying shooting film is a technically more demanding exercise. To me, the end result is the key. If you can accomplish the same result with either medium, why take the more difficult route? If I can get good results with digital, why on earth would I want to shoot film? I put it to you that shooting digital will also improve your film photography. A couple of weeks ago I picked up my Dad's old Nikon SLR, the one I had been using for over 10 years, and shot a small indoor function that was happening using a single pin flash and a card-board bouncer. I haven't seen the results yet, but I think they will not be too bad, bacause I have shot over 1000 frames on digital experimenting with different cam settings, flash settings, bounce angles etc, all for free (didn't print a single shot and deleted most of them). 12 or even 6 months ago I would never even have had the confidence to try flash photography on an SLR.
    Actually, shooting film is a less demanding exercise. The end result is often good when you learn to compose first before you shoot. When a digital photographer shoots 1000 pictures to get 100 good picture, he often have to review all the 1000 pictures to get the 100 good picture. For film user, it means, "You have 3 rolls of films, make every shot counts" I shoot 112 pictures, I guess I will have to make sure I have 100 of them in acceptable condition .

    What I did for films photography is I buy the films, shoot it, develop it then scan it into my computer .

    In personal view, shooting Digital can be fun, it is fun actually, but then with strong foundation on films, shooting digital is more fun because post processing will be minimum ..... only for colour shift. Levelling / Burning / Dodging are all not required. Reasons? When you shoot with films, every shot counts, every composition becomes a second nature to you, you will not waste a single shot on stupid pictures.

    I would not object to learning with Digital camera, provided the habit of looking into the LCD and Machine Gun shooting is not picked up. In fact, I would recommend it if the person who wanted to learn photography avoided the possible pitfall. However, how many people would actually have that sort of disciping?

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevyan
    Hi hi,

    would anyone recommend Canon EOS 66?

    John 3:16 Photo is selling at $410.
    Why not get a manual camera instead? There are tons of old pentaxs or other manual cameras for sale. Get a second handed camera if you cannot afford 1st handed ones.

    CSers are selling quite a few cameras everyday. You can get good deals with second handed cameras. Start with the basic zoom lens first.


    For example, David fun is letting go of his Nikon F55 with 28-80mm lens for $200

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=107921

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben1223
    Not necessarily true. You can still enjoy photography but it is hard to turn pro coz of $$$ constraints.

    I got my first film SLR two months prior to my wife giving birth to our first child. That's her in my avatar. Purpose was to capture family moments. Didn't realize it would grow into a hobby. It was my launchpad to photography. But I don't have dreams of becoming pro or freelancer so I'm satisfied with what I have and keep my expenses under control. It depends how far you want to take it.

    Btw, that photo in my avatar won 2nd prize in a baby photo contest back in 2003.

    She is beautiful

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Incastasman
    She is beautiful
    Thanks. She's got a charming personality too. Loves to smile and greet people. She got that from her Mom.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by blurblock
    Why not get a manual camera instead? There are tons of old pentaxs or other manual cameras for sale. Get a second handed camera if you cannot afford 1st handed ones.

    CSers are selling quite a few cameras everyday. You can get good deals with second handed cameras. Start with the basic zoom lens first.


    For example, David fun is letting go of his Nikon F55 with 28-80mm lens for $200

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=107921
    Agree with this... No need to spend a whole heap of cash when you are just learning. 2nd hand body (150) and a reasonable prime lense (50mm f1.8 - 150) will kick you off nicely. Don't worry about any additional stuff just yet. Get the basics down first and go from there.

  17. #37

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    Hi Kevin,
    See this link. F80 body and 50mm lens.
    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=108318

    F80 body only
    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=109823
    combine with this lens
    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=109764
    or with this lens
    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=108779
    or with this lens (wide angle zoom if you like landscapes)
    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=105756


    This is guy selling F80 body also.
    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=109475
    Last edited by Ben1223; 6th January 2005 at 11:05 PM.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevyan


    Hi all, my name is Kevin. I am new here. Begining to have an interest in photography.

    Need some advice from all of you. Most likely, I will be learning some basic photography from my friend, but he recommened me to buy Canon EOS 300D if I have no budget constraint. But the fact is, I do have budget contraint.

    So, I need to know, for a beginner like me, really a beginner beginner, should I get a SLR or DSLR?

    What are the things am I getting myself into? Time/money or what?

    I think this is an expensive hobby. But I just like to capture nice pictures.

    Please help. Thank you very much.
    hi kelvin...

    this is kimu...f
    first of all, you must really know what you want in photography...you love potrait?natural?landscape?candid shot?architecture?macro? ....so on so forth..cos all this element will really decide how much cost you are going to spent on this expensive hobby..

    i am quiet new in photo...but i done a lot a lot of research before i go into this hobbies...i found my decision is true..we must got to decide a very precise goal that you wish to go...bcos each shoting...portrait/natural/etc..will require different tools and lenses to shot..that ultimately will decide your budget/cost. so you have to decide if you wish to go long term.

    if you take photography as leisure hobbies..try not to spent too much..until you reach your confortable level. if you are pro-canonian, then stick to canon product....if you are pro-nikonian..then stick to nikon product. it will makes a lot of diff in long run. my suggestion to you is minimum spending on your cam body and lenses....try to play with it for sometime and when u find you can commit more time. then draw a budget list start collecting your favarite lenses and gears set..

    hope this guideline helpful to you.

    cheers,
    kimu.
    KIM & PPY
    Black Camp F100,D90, AFD 35mm f2.0, Voigtlander Cosina 58mm Nokton Classic F1.4.

  19. #39

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    Wah...! I must really say that people in here are very helpful and give good advice.

    We, I just went with my friend (a photographer too) to John 3:16 and purchase the Canon EOS 66 @$380. It's within my budget, and I hope it is a good buy. Was considering between Nikon F55 and Canon EOS 66.

    So now, I guess my next step will be to learn from all the 'shi fu' (master) here and practice.

    I really hope one day, with my acquire knowledge and skill, I will be able to make a living through photography (side line).

    I have one question for Ben1223. Is the picture of your daughter taken with a film SLR? If yes, how did you scan it so sharp and post it on the web?

    And for the rest, please don't mind me if I ask a lot of questions on photography. I am really new, but want to learn. I would like to share my learning with my dear too. She wants to pick up photography too.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevyan
    Wah...! I must really say that people in here are very helpful and give good advice.

    We, I just went with my friend (a photographer too) to John 3:16 and purchase the Canon EOS 66 @$380. It's within my budget, and I hope it is a good buy. Was considering between Nikon F55 and Canon EOS 66.

    So now, I guess my next step will be to learn from all the 'shi fu' (master) here and practice.

    I really hope one day, with my acquire knowledge and skill, I will be able to make a living through photography (side line).

    I have one question for Ben1223. Is the picture of your daughter taken with a film SLR? If yes, how did you scan it so sharp and post it on the web?

    And for the rest, please don't mind me if I ask a lot of questions on photography. I am really new, but want to learn. I would like to share my learning with my dear too. She wants to pick up photography too.
    It was scanned from a 4R print with an old HP scanner. This was actually posted in my gallery before I got photoshop installed in my pc. One of the oldest pics I scanned. To meet the maximum size allowed by clubsnap I had to scan with low resolution.

    Now I scan at 300 ppi then just resize and compress using photoshop so it can be accepted by clubsnap gallery.

    My newer posts are in another gallery are much better than this one since I already have PS. http://www.photonski.com/ben1223
    Photoshop is also fun since it makes good photos better.

    Above photo was taken using Dynax 5, Sigma 105mm macro, and Fuji Superia film. You get better pics using prime lenses. Proper hand-holding techniques also help for sharper images.

    Good luck to you and have fun.

    Cheers

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