Where to print best B&W prints?

[pinkipod]

anyone knows which is the best place to get B&W prints? either by film by digital... thanks!

[ortega]

for digital does not really matter
for film, it should be done by yourself in a darkroom. There are no 2 prints that are the same. It then becomes ART.

[student]

How much are you willing to pay for the "best"?

I beg to differ with ortega. Printing your own photo can theorectically allow you to print the way you want the print to be. But how many people actually have the skills to do so? Like most "art" and "craft" it takes years of hard toil to learn how to do things properly.

An example: John Sexton. His is considered as one of the best contemporary printers around (sorry, in Carmel, California). He takes hours just to make a print!

So what do you consider as "best"?

[LKSC]

Student is right. Unless you have the skill and the experience, you are better off in the hands of a master printer for the "best" possible print, but at a cost.

[ortega]

Originally Posted by LKSC Student is right. Unless you have the skill and the experience, you are better off in the hands of a master printer for the "best" possible print, but at a cost.

You must start somewhere, even the master was a student once,
you are robbing him of the pleasure of printing his own picture the way he wants it to be printed.

But beware, once you know how to do it yourself, you will not be satisfied by commercial prints anymore. No one knows how you want it to be printed better than yourself.

If you leave everything up to the master, might as well ask the master to take the photo as well, because the master can do it better.

So with this point, I disagree with the above 2 posts.

Cheers.

Note: this is only a difference in opinion.

[locksley]

I alway go
KT for digital
Fei Fei for b/w Flim

note :
develop B/w photo is not cheap
4R -- about 1.20-1.80

[student]

Originally Posted by ortega You must start somewhere, even the master was a student once, you are robbing him of the pleasure of printing his own picture the way he wants it to be printed. But beware, once you know how to do it yourself, you will not be satisfied by commercial prints anymore. No one knows how you want it to be printed better than yourself. If you leave everything up to the master, might as well ask the master to take the photo as well, because the master can do it better. So with this point, I disagree with the above 2 posts. Cheers. Note: this is only a difference in opinion.

I think you miss pinkipod's question completely. His question was where to have good prints done - the best! Obviously if he has the necessary skills, and the darkroom equipment to match, he would not have the need to ask this. It appears from his question that pinkipod has at the moment some prints to make. There is no way he could learn to print the "best prints' in the next few weeks!

Of course the joy of learning to make your own prints is very special. Those who know me know that I am a die-hard black& white printer. Yet, I did not recommend my self because at this moment, I do not think that I can produce the "best" prints in Singapore. I may be good enough to make some decent prints, but there is no way that I even dare to imagine that my prints are the "best" there is in Singapore. So if I want the best there is in Singapore, I may have to look for some other black & white printers to do te job.

[popeye]

hi student, do you do print? how much do you charge?

[student]

Originally Posted by popeye hi student, do you do print? how much do you charge?

No I do not do prints commercially. It is a delightful hobby for me. However if you have negatives (not too many!) that you might need some help, I will be glad to do so. If your negatives are 35 mm, I am afraid that for the time being I am unable to print them. I had just changed my enlarger to a 4x5, and I do not have the proper enlarger lens for 35 mm printing! I can only do medium format and 4x5 at the present moment. But I will get a 35 mm enlarger lens

[ortega]

Did I offend the student?

OK as student says, where/who is the best bw printer.
There once was a place called "the darkroom" at tiong bahru
but they are not there anymore.

I do not recommend fee fee, even the contact prints are not good.

Since there was no time frame stated in post #1
I still say DIY is the "Best" to suit yourself. for film
and for digital it really does not matter as the "digital darkroom " work is already done on your computer.

Cheers and have fun learning a new skill, I am sure that you will be pleased with your own prints, once you know how.

BTW you do not need to be a master to have good prints. A good neg will give you good prints. A master will make a great print from the same good neg.
A bad neg will need to be reshot.

[Cheesecake]

Danmax at Hougang Mall area.

the uncle who owns the shop used to be a photographer and he's really good with B/W films developing and processing and printing, of course.

however, its been a long time since i last shot in B/W film let alone visited him and using his service.

thus, age might have caught up with him and his tonal sense might not be as good, his eyesight might not be like wat it was before... (he developed and processed and printed the B/W films all by hand, not by machines)

i wonder if he still manually process B/W and print them?


really excellent B/W printing job. i still have the fotos hanged on my walls till today.

excellent.

[tucker]

just for info.
did ya guys know that the FDI machine can register black and white negs & output mono too.
it's up to the operator to fine tune to tones, even sepis is possible.
the most they can adjust is the density.

but ultimately I won't really recommend it... the prints though appears contrastly lacks details in the shadow and overall.

they shldn't charge ya extra for machine print anyway. if ya might ask.
it's considered a normal operation for the FDI machine!

[Ah_Seng]

Originally Posted by ortega I do not recommend fee fee, even the contact prints are not good.

Hi ortega,

I am curious about this statement of yours. Can you elaborate why do you think Fee Fee is no good?

I am not siding Fee Fee or anything, but just wanna know why do you say so.....as I've always printed at Fee Fee and being new to b/w, I might not be able to tell what's good or no good.

Thanks.

[student]

Originally Posted by ortega Did I offend the student?

No not at all. In fact I don't even know who you are!

What I had written is an opinion that is different from yours. Let me tell you a little more about myself. About a year ago, I showed my prints to a group of photogs who were learning negative development. The instructor saw my prints and said "wow, your prints are good!" To which I replied "My prints are at best mediocre". He commented "If yours are mediocre, then ours must only be good enough as toilet paper!"

Without false pretense, I think my printing skills is "not bad" for an amateur.

Since then, my printing skills had improved. I had some negatives which I could not print well a year ago, and I could made some decent prints from them now. I know how difficult it is to learn how to make a good print. I am not yet talking about how to make a print that "sings".

But pinkipod wanted to have the "best prints". It is important to answer the question as directly as possible. Your suggestion that pinkipod learn how to do his own printing is something I most heartily agree absolutely! I will even teach pinkipod if he so desires (She?). But to get the "best" prints now or in the near future (be reasonable-it is not sensible to expect pinkipod to ask this question now in order to make some prints 3 years down the road!), pinkipod will have to ask someone else to do it for him/her.

At the present moment, I think Desmond (who prints for Russell Wong) is one whom I will ask for advice.

[nightwolf75]

pinkipod - u can also try sending ur B&W to ruby at peninsular hotel. i send them to ruby (look for mr ho), and they will take care of it for me. usually takes abt 3-4 days to get my index print back. not bad, their service.

[pinkipod]

hey everyone!

thanx for the cool advice and interesting opinions I'm a she, for info haha, student finally decided to question that a little later in the thread... anyway... i just tried out some prints on a FDI machine... it was quite painful to look at...all the details were gone, the pix were pretty much destroyed...

i used to get it hand-printed by Sam (cool dude stays in Yishun) who charges cut-throat prices for his prints...but he the master...the prints are drool-worthy! he prints for Wesley. anyone knows him? but i obviously cannot afford it for long lah...

that's why wanted to find a good enough B&W printer that doesn't churn out crap like the FDI ones...

but hey, it is my ultimate dream to do darkroom... just no resources nor time...

cheers!

[ellery]

Your experience with "the darkroom" may have been different from mine - films send for processing were over developed, contacts were well even then I think if I had step into a darkroom could have done a better job.

That's about when I decided to reactivate processing and latter on darkroom printing resouces. I did not sweat to get images on neg to be slaughtered like chickens because an outside contractor can not perform to spec.... namely Tmax chem at correct processing time and temp and ditto for contact sheets.

Fei Fei is inconsistant (at least they were more than a decade back) - but they used to give you scratches for free 8-).

The short of it is - for black and white you need to do your own processing, and printing if you want the print to follow with you wanted when you captured the image on film. Not even a master printer can do this for you - not unless you and him are agreeable to you directly the printing process (few are unless you know what you are doing).

There are a small handful of really master printers in Singapore, I mean those that print as an artform. They do not taken in outside work - they are normally full from their own shooting. I have the good chance to know one of them and seen some of his work (grin its not student) and had the pleasure of printing from negs he shot and processed.

Any printer who takes in work on a commercial basis has to balance the art and commerce - if it's rice bowl then commerce will win in the end meaning you print in a fixed range of style(s) and format(s) and do the least work you can on the print - the empahsis is on productive use of time and resources. No spending hours on 1 print to make it shine to the best of the image's ability.

Yeah a good image on neg will translate into a good print - maybe. But to get a good image you need to know what u are doing at each stage - it does not happen always be chance.

Originally Posted by ortega Did I offend the student? OK as student says, where/who is the best bw printer. There once was a place called "the darkroom" at tiong bahru but they are not there anymore. I do not recommend fee fee, even the contact prints are not good. Since there was no time frame stated in post #1 I still say DIY is the "Best" to suit yourself. for film and for digital it really does not matter as the "digital darkroom " work is already done on your computer. Cheers and have fun learning a new skill, I am sure that you will be pleased with your own prints, once you know how. BTW you do not need to be a master to have good prints. A good neg will give you good prints. A master will make a great print from the same good neg. A bad neg will need to be reshot.

[pipefish]

Hi Pinkipod,

If you want a good hand-print, you'll have to go to Desmond or Sam. Sam did all my wedding shots (Wes was my photog) and his turnaround is quite fast.

But, Desmond or Sam will not be able to interpret your own negs for you. They will only give you a technically good print. If your have your own artistic vision of your shot, you have no choice but to do it yourself.

You might want to start by doing the darkroom work digitally. After you have manipulated the finished image, you can bring it to Objectifs to print on their large format epson printers (cheaper), or to RGB and get Iris prints (as expensive as Desmond and Sam). The prints will not be the same as a selenium toned fibre print, but they are in their own way, nice, and representative of what you had in mind.

Alan

[student]

Originally Posted by ellery The short of it is - for black and white you need to do your own processing, and printing if you want the print to follow with you wanted when you captured the image on film. Not even a master printer can do this for you - not unless you and him are agreeable to you directly the printing process (few are unless you know what you are doing). Any printer who takes in work on a commercial basis has to balance the art and commerce - if it's rice bowl then commerce will win in the end meaning you print in a fixed range of style(s) and format(s) and do the least work you can on the print - the empahsis is on productive use of time and resources. No spending hours on 1 print to make it shine to the best of the image's ability.

The first paragraph in this edited quoted from you is what ortega is talking about. And I am in full agreement also.

I am also in full agreement with your comments regarding commercial printers. But if a close collaboration between photographer and printer exists for a long time, the printer can actually get a print the way the photographer wants it. A good example is Cartier Bresson. A local example I know of is Russell Wong and Desmond.

But coming back to the comments by you and ortega regarding self printing (and I might as well put in negative exposure and development). I mentioned my personal example as an illustration on how difficult it is to learn how to print well. Compared to you and others, I am but a babe in darkroom printing, having about 3 years experience. But heck! I think there are few here as enthusiastic as I am in darkroom printing!

Even if pinkipod start today and develop and print her own prints, it will still take years to be able to do what Desmond and Sam (actually don't know who Sam is!) can do. So to answer her question, my suggestion is to bring your negatives (if traditional B&W) to Desmond (at least he is one professional who will accept commercial work).

Well, another possibility is me! Talking about all this has spark my interest and perhaps I might try to print your negatives to see if I can meet your expectations. Free! how about that? For "pinki" only! But not 35 mm for the time being till I get my 35 mm enlarging lens.

[ortega]

I loved darkroom work and also loved my prints that came from my own trays, I used to have a makeshift darkroom in my room and my toilet, but sadly my health took a toll from the fumes, so now i do it digitally (not as good, but still fun.)

As for my experience with fee fee, they are too commercial and the last straw was when my negs were scratched and my contact sheet was gray,
when you see your shots on a contact sheet all gray (no blacks) it just turns me off. But that was a long time ago, so i don't know if it is still that way.

P can heed your advice or my ravings, it's up to her.
It is not known what he/she wants to print and what it is for. It was just a general question and i gave a general answer.

For the rest who are reading my ravings, "if you don't try, you will never know", so try sending your negs out to different places/people and compair for yourself.

After which learn some darkroom skills and print your negs and love your photos all over again. This year your prints will be good, next year the same neg will get you a better print as your skills improve and one day you will get great prints.

Have fun.

BTW ventilation is a must for darkroom work.