Minolta A200 low light focusing

Xerxes · 3rd January 2005

Happy new year to all shuttle bugs on this forum.

Just bought a A200 last week and was petty satisfied with the performance so far..... The anti shake, controls, noise level are all pretty exceptional. Only problem I have is the rather slow focusing speed under low light. This is especially so when you try to use at focal lenght above 80mm. It sometimes take several(!) seconds to focus under indoor lighting (the rainy weather isn't helping). On top of that, the AI in the focusing often chose the wrong spot to focus.

On the brighter side, my friend who owns a Canon Pro 1 told me that the focusing under daylight is extremely fast compared to his camera and is strongly considering to trade his camera with mine since his shooting style does not require quick focusing.

Would like to seek the opinion of the experts here if there is anyway this could be improved on this nice camera? Also, how is the low light focusing for the A2 and if the firmware upgrades on it has improved the focusing performance? If so, do you think that the A200 would have a new firmware with better focusing performance?

Drudkh · 3rd January 2005

how about trying spot focusing?

pai · 3rd January 2005

don't think there's anything that can be done about the low-light focusing. since there's no af-assist lamp. i have the same difficulty with my a2. for a1/2 owners there's a rather expensive solution: modified battery grip

someone in germany is modifying the minolta battery grip to add 3 leds as an af-assist light. you have to send him your grip, and the mod plus shipping back costs 65 euros. anyone want to MO?

this is off-topic, but your friend can try upgrading the firmware for his pro-1 to improve af speed: pro-1 firmware update

last thing (after all that rubbish, must try to be useful lah), agree with drudkh on the spot focusing. press and hold the centre button on your four-way controller until a cross appears in the centre of your screen. this is flex-point focusing. put the cross on the place you want to focus on, half-press, get in focus, then recompose your shot. no more hoping for the camera to guess where u want to focus.

you can also move the cross around the screen to change focus point, just press the centre button once to put it back in the centre again.

Xerxes · 3rd January 2005

Thanks for both your advice.

Have tried the "spot" focus (the one with small square) and it does help to prevent selecting wrong focusing point. This does speed things up a little but still a little slow for candid. Always get blur picture or missing the moment.

Xerxes · 3rd January 2005

BTW Pai, Do you have an A2? Does the focusing speed improve after upgrading the sw?

pai · 3rd January 2005

yes, i have an a2, but i immediately upgraded it to the latest firmware after i bought it, so i can't really compare before and after. i also think you shouldn't set your hopes on a firmware fix for AF. the a200 came out quite a few mths after the a2 firmware fix, so it's quite possible that the current version of the a200 firmware already has the same autofocus improvements.

hmm candid shots ah... sigh. well the autofocus is never going to be as fast as in an slr, especially if you're shooting indoors. if you want to capture good candid moments, there are things that have to be learnt no matter how good the camera is. i'm still very new to this too, and trying to improve, but some things to try:

1) prefocus, and use a smaller aperture. estimate where most of the action is going to take place, and focus on that spot, then lock focus there by switching to manual focus. using a small aperture will give you wider depth of field and more leeway for small differences in distance. this will help you cut down on lag from focusing time.

2) anticipate the action. must guess when something is going to happen and press the shutter before it does. otherwise got lag from brain to finger, plus camera's own shutter lag, by time the pic is taken, everything is over. e.g. for a kiss, must press right before the lips meet, for a jump, must press before the person jump, etc.

Xerxes · 3rd January 2005

Thanks for the advice. Looks like I have to develop better ESP to predict the action.

Alternative is to save enough to buy an DSLR like Drudkh. Drool.....

TME · 3rd January 2005

I'm not sure if this works with the A200 but it did with my Dynax 505si. U can get the 5600flash. There is a IR illumination lamp which helps the camera to focus faster when it paints the target with an IR pattern. This improves the AF quite a bit for the 505si. U can borrow a flash one of the bros here at SEED and try.

splatt · 3rd January 2005

I've been using the A200 a lot on holiday and here's what I've discovered about the focusing:
1. The focus cross is actually an accurate focus mode for e.g. macro work and is not much faster than wide area. The best mode is to switch to flex focus and permanently select the centre 'box' (not cross).
2. Unfortunately, all these prosumers seem to hate focusing on faces - too fuzzy, they much prefer strong vertical lines. The best solution I've found is to first focus on the person's shirt or a nearby edge, then switch to manual focus and take the shot. This is also a good approach if you want someone else to take a group shot.
3. The 3600HS flash does not provide any focus assist with this camera :-(

Hope that helps.

TME · 3rd January 2005

U can use the eye for focussing. It's a complex shape and crosses the focus sensors... I thought the centre focus sensor for the A200 is a cross-hair type?

Flare · 3rd January 2005

After ready the replys do note:

Yup, use 'spot focus' or what's known as the flex focus point, it'll improve AF speed and avoid the problem of camera choosing the wrong AF point. Just set it in the center, af, recompose and shoot.

Next, I don't think the A200 supports the AF assist lamp on external flash units. You could join the next gathering and borrow one to try.

Next, (to TME) prosumer camera's focusing is not the same as SLR or DSLR. It doesn't have a dedicated AF sensor, they focus using video image from the CCD. This is known as video focusing. In video focusing, the camera has no idea is it back focused or front focused (unlike dslr/slr), it just keep running the len's focus back and forth in tiny bits to find which way the focusing should go until it gets maximum contrast in the selected AF area, indicative of a correct focus, and fix the focus. So if you are pointing the focus area at a plain, low contrast point, like skin, it'll have difficulty focusing (even dslr/slr). So when shooting people, try to look for high contrast areas, or just point it at the eye.

Hope it helps

Xerxes · 3rd January 2005

Dear all,

Tried the flex focus and it does seem to improve the focusing time over over all the other modes.

Thank you all for the advice! This forum is great!

Drudkh · 3rd January 2005

Originally Posted by Xerxes

Dear all,

Tried the flex focus and it does seem to improve the focusing time over over all the other modes.

Thank you all for the advice! This forum is great!

Join us in our next big gathering.

TME · 3rd January 2005

Originally Posted by Drudkh

Join us in our next big gathering.

When? Dun make it a Wed please!

pai · 4th January 2005

confirm plus guarantee the AF assist lamp on the external flashes doesn't work with A-series cameras.

maybe can clip one of those small led keychains to one of the strap eyelets for help in low light.

TME · 4th January 2005

Originally Posted by pai

confirm plus guarantee the AF assist lamp on the external flashes doesn't work with A-series cameras.

maybe can clip one of those small led keychains to one of the strap eyelets for help in low light.

That's quite a shame.... btw pai, that shot in your avatar... how did u obtain it? Looks interesting.... it's a shot of the 3600 / 5600HS?

Xerxes · 4th January 2005

Originally Posted by Drudkh

Join us in our next big gathering.

Thanks for the invitation!

Will try to join. When will it be?

pai · 4th January 2005

Originally Posted by TME

btw pai, that shot in your avatar... how did u obtain it? Looks interesting.... it's a shot of the 3600 / 5600HS?

shot of the sigma 500. set it on wireless mode, put it on the stand, pop up the inbuilt flash and shoot lor.

oh yah, it has an omnibounce on it, that's why the glow...

TME · 4th January 2005

Originally Posted by pai

shot of the sigma 500. set it on wireless mode, put it on the stand, pop up the inbuilt flash and shoot lor.

oh yah, it has an omnibounce on it, that's why the glow...

Ah..... yeah... that's explains the glow.... Were u using a 7D? Careful u dun burn the CCD sensor....

pai · 4th January 2005

using a2. no $$$ for 7D lah.

yeah, was abit worried about the sensor, but i set FEC quite low, and had the bounce on, so should be fine. i just thought it was funny that i can take picture of my own flash firing.

3rd January 2005	#1
Xerxes Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 97	Minolta A200 low light focusing Happy new year to all shuttle bugs on this forum. Just bought a A200 last week and was petty satisfied with the performance so far..... The anti shake, controls, noise level are all pretty exceptional. Only problem I have is the rather slow focusing speed under low light. This is especially so when you try to use at focal lenght above 80mm. It sometimes take several(!) seconds to focus under indoor lighting (the rainy weather isn't helping). On top of that, the AI in the focusing often chose the wrong spot to focus. On the brighter side, my friend who owns a Canon Pro 1 told me that the focusing under daylight is extremely fast compared to his camera and is strongly considering to trade his camera with mine since his shooting style does not require quick focusing. Would like to seek the opinion of the experts here if there is anyway this could be improved on this nice camera? Also, how is the low light focusing for the A2 and if the firmware upgrades on it has improved the focusing performance? If so, do you think that the A200 would have a new firmware with better focusing performance?

3rd January 2005	#9
splatt Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 126	A200 focusing tips I've been using the A200 a lot on holiday and here's what I've discovered about the focusing: 1. The focus cross is actually an accurate focus mode for e.g. macro work and is not much faster than wide area. The best mode is to switch to flex focus and permanently select the centre 'box' (not cross). 2. Unfortunately, all these prosumers seem to hate focusing on faces - too fuzzy, they much prefer strong vertical lines. The best solution I've found is to first focus on the person's shirt or a nearby edge, then switch to manual focus and take the shot. This is also a good approach if you want someone else to take a group shot. 3. The 3600HS flash does not provide any focus assist with this camera :-( Hope that helps.

3rd January 2005	#2
Drudkh Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 6,019	how about trying spot focusing?

3rd January 2005	#3
pai Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Lala Land Posts: 1,664	don't think there's anything that can be done about the low-light focusing. since there's no af-assist lamp. i have the same difficulty with my a2. for a1/2 owners there's a rather expensive solution: modified battery grip someone in germany is modifying the minolta battery grip to add 3 leds as an af-assist light. you have to send him your grip, and the mod plus shipping back costs 65 euros. anyone want to MO? this is off-topic, but your friend can try upgrading the firmware for his pro-1 to improve af speed: pro-1 firmware update last thing (after all that rubbish, must try to be useful lah), agree with drudkh on the spot focusing. press and hold the centre button on your four-way controller until a cross appears in the centre of your screen. this is flex-point focusing. put the cross on the place you want to focus on, half-press, get in focus, then recompose your shot. no more hoping for the camera to guess where u want to focus. you can also move the cross around the screen to change focus point, just press the centre button once to put it back in the centre again.

3rd January 2005	#8
TME Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Clementi Posts: 6,188	I'm not sure if this works with the A200 but it did with my Dynax 505si. U can get the 5600flash. There is a IR illumination lamp which helps the camera to focus faster when it paints the target with an IR pattern. This improves the AF quite a bit for the 505si. U can borrow a flash one of the bros here at SEED and try.

3rd January 2005	#11
Flare Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bukit Batok West Avenue 2 Posts: 1,739	After ready the replys do note: Yup, use 'spot focus' or what's known as the flex focus point, it'll improve AF speed and avoid the problem of camera choosing the wrong AF point. Just set it in the center, af, recompose and shoot. Next, I don't think the A200 supports the AF assist lamp on external flash units. You could join the next gathering and borrow one to try. Next, (to TME) prosumer camera's focusing is not the same as SLR or DSLR. It doesn't have a dedicated AF sensor, they focus using video image from the CCD. This is known as video focusing. In video focusing, the camera has no idea is it back focused or front focused (unlike dslr/slr), it just keep running the len's focus back and forth in tiny bits to find which way the focusing should go until it gets maximum contrast in the selected AF area, indicative of a correct focus, and fix the focus. So if you are pointing the focus area at a plain, low contrast point, like skin, it'll have difficulty focusing (even dslr/slr). So when shooting people, try to look for high contrast areas, or just point it at the eye. Hope it helps

4th January 2005	#15
pai Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Lala Land Posts: 1,664	confirm plus guarantee the AF assist lamp on the external flashes doesn't work with A-series cameras. maybe can clip one of those small led keychains to one of the strap eyelets for help in low light.

4th January 2005	#20
pai Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Lala Land Posts: 1,664	using a2. no $$$ for 7D lah. yeah, was abit worried about the sensor, but i set FEC quite low, and had the bounce on, so should be fine. i just thought it was funny that i can take picture of my own flash firing.